magicpockets

Override Edict only lasts for the model's activation. Once it's buried, the model's activation ends. The Hoffman player has no further control over the model.

The Override Edict effect persists on the model, but that doesn't mean that the Hoffman player has control over it, since that's not what Override Edict says.

As soon as the Miner is buried, control reverts to its Controller.

This isn't as clear cut as you make it. If OE places an effect on the SS Miner it's activation wouldn't end until it's completed it's bury action, by which points effects don't resolve so the effect persists. I can see that when it's unburied it then "loses" the effect as it's a different activation, but the question is valid as until it activates (or at least unburies) the effect would persist. The easy way to resolve it would be to say the effect is on Hoffman and not the target, much like Conduit from a Voodoo Doll - then all this goes away

RAW and within Ratty's explanation you'd be right, Hoffman controls the SS Miner until it realises it's got a new activation - but I'm thinking they may be about to change bury with this new FAQ so hopefully that's where we'll get this cleared up.

Jo, I'm sure everyone will agree you have our support on this no matter what you decide and we understand the issue isn't down to you. I know everyone massively appreciates what you do.

With Zoraida take a full cache and bang her in melee with stuff. You might be surprised at how good a roadblock she is.

^^ Kind of what I meant, but Alex has made a ruling so I'm happy to support that.

- Sandwich buffet on day 1 that was actually pretty decent.

- Apple pie and Custard inbetween games 2 and 3

- A jacket potato with choice of filling day 2 (I went for beans) and came with a side salad

- Choice of cake inbetween games 2 and 3

For me paying £7.50 for sandwiches and cake and then £7.50 for jacket potato and cake is a rip off. Sorry, but unless Jamie Oliver is in there buttering bread then it's massively over priced.

I don't mind paying for fuel to Mansfield, a hotel for 2/3 nights, tournament entry, and meals every day because thats fair enough and I can choose what to do, but being made to pay £15 for food which wasn't that good last time (I'll take the "we've improved the kitchen" with a pinch of salt), with no choice in the matter is a little off. Hell, it's not like I don't spend a fortune with Maelstrom anyway.

If food was menu'd and priced and I had a choice in the matter I'd be cool with this, but being made to pay an inflated price for food as a condition of entering an event makes me feel like I'm being taken advantage of. And if that's the case, there's plenty of other LGS who'll post me models.

And like Craig, none of this is a reflection on Jo (even though I heard she's on commission )

Hamelin- I start with few, open by draining souls on rats or stolen and go hulking with him.

NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

Okay, maximum ss you can get from a Stolen is 2ss and that needs 2AP to do it, and you can get 1ss from a rat. That's a 1ss net loss on both models - you may as well take the ss in your pool. Even if you're summoning the Stolen and using your last 2AP to get the stones you'd be better drawing 4 cards rather than 2ss.

Also, avoid Drain Souls unless it's strategically important as the -1wp will bite your ass.

Lastly, I'd recommend always taking 8ss with Hamelin, getting understand the soulless off multiple times or combining one with fate is meaningless to ensure a hit against anything in the game is so powerful. Plus, if you find yourself without Stolen you'l be glad of the damage prevention flips.

Wouldn't this fail under the stacking effects rules? It would be multiple instances of an ability with the same name - so shouldn't it apply to the target model only once?

No because it's multiple instances of immediate effects, not ongoing effects. Same if you lose a WP dual within 3" of multiple sorrows

The problem is this is sounding awesome and no-one from the UK apart from Aiden and me are interested...

Come on guys - can we get four of us together for this?

Awesome, first Amy ditches me for a dance competition and now my club partner has dropped out

Whoa - who are SoCal Malifaux? I'm going to be in California a lot this year so that would be good to know

Well, that rebalances Hamelin then.

In 35ss Collodi, Marionettes and a Canine Remains will cost 18ss, so you have 17ss left. With that I like picking from -

Bette and a Stolen (12ss)

Killjoy with optional Wicked Doll or Watcher delivery (11ss/14ss)

Dead Rider and Grave Spirit (11ss)

4x SPAs (12ss)

With the remaining ss for Levi and maybe Collodi.

Okay, I think this was it -

When you are attacked, you Resolve Damage. Damage Resolution is the whole process from being hit to you models Wound Total being changed. In the Damage Resolution Phase you

• Work out how much Dg the Weapon has caused. including triggers and other bonuses.
  
• You take that value and modify it with Armour and Spirit etc. This gives you the final Dg total.
  
• You then change Dg to Wds.
  
• It's at this point you prevent Wds by spending soulstones.
  
• Any Wds remaining are applied to the model.
  

At the end of the Damage Resolution Phase any Wounds Taken is the amount of Damage a attack has caused. Even if this total is 0 Damage, the attack counts as damaging as it has went through the Damage Resolution Phase.

If a Black Joker is flipped for damage, "No Damage" is Caused and therefore Damage Resolution never happens and effects that work on Damaging therefore do nothing.

When you lower damage with Prevention, IE. by spending a Soulstone, if there are no Wounds left after Prevention you also count as having caused "No Damage" and the Damage Resolution is interupted and effects that work on Damaging do nothing.

Essentially damage effects are now applied in step one and wounds in step three. It's just got messy with this Damage/Dg/Wounds thing but hopefully we'll get some clarification soon with this FAQ document.

Hello

I'd always played it out that the first attack never benefited from the blight counter but with the damage resolution order chart thing that got explained a few months ago they gain the counter before wounds are calculated and then it's there to add +1wd when wounds are actually calculated. I'll try and dig out the thread the person who told me was referring to etc but I was surprised when I got told to be sure.

...saw Neverata take the plaudits ahead of Calmdown and Cunningstunt

Did anyone see the news tonight? Apparently hell just froze over....

I just want to bounce an idea here. Quite a few people were up for paying a crazy sum of money for Gencon - if we could get a week of gaming in the USA (say a tourny on two consecutive weekends with games in the middle) would people be up for it?

Don't think too much about budget (but do bear in mind you need flights and a week of living) or time off work etc, just a yes or no to the idea is all I'm looking for at the minute.

(And yes Ian, this was your idea *wink*)

100% agree Q, great post

Challenge accepted sir.

Love it lol

Still waiting for 1 player to confirm his place

I really doubt he'll be coming

This isn't exactly a coincidence.

You and CalmDown are also very vocal on the forums. And you talk about the crews you play. You have pointed out many times on here that Hamelin is 'broken'. And CalmDown has pointed out that the dreamer is 'broken'. And...you play Hamelin, and he plays dreamer. So, now you start Gremlins, and...CalmDown starts making posts about how to fix their brokenness, and people follow suit. And, lo, all of the crews you guys play have a habit of getting declared broken.

Now, I'm not trying to attack you here, at all. You're excited about what you play and...you talk about it. Cool, I do too. But people are listening, and when they hear all of the tricks which crew X can do from an experienced player, it looks a lot better than crew Y which nobody happens to be talking about, because the talkative folks are playing other things.

So, the skill level of the player fielding a certain master can affect the community's perception of that master, yes. But the community's perception is also influenced by how much and the manner in which those player's post.

Firstly you have to realise how Calmdown and I (and others) see broken - whilst there are rules imbalances in the game and things which need changing (Hamelin has about 4 or 5 things which could change to balance him out, for me Dreamer has 2), we see "broken" as playing Malifaux - it's about working out ideas and strategy that use the crew to their best advantage and enable them to take on any other crew. It's other people who see us finding exploits in the rules and crying for fixes - but the truth is the vast majority of things don't need fixing as they can be countered, it's just when there is a skill imbalance in a given game that it's an issue, but if I play chess against Kasparov I expect there would be a skill imbalance too.

That said, perhaps we need to give more thought to the cavalier way we refer to "breaking" things and I'll certainly bear it in mind.

As for your post, I agree 100% and get what you're saying. The problem for me is that my approach to Malifaux is "standing on the shoulders of giants" - I like to start with a clean slate, get as much advice, debate and discussion about a crew/model, and then build on other people's ideas and understandings. That, combined with a deliberate losing streak with the new crew builds (ask my local club, literally thrown models into stuff and see how well it does) is what leads to really understanding and getting the most from a crew.

Take my Levi thread, there's a handful of guys on there who have contributed so many ideas and without (for example) TwitstedMetal I never would have been able to take "breaking" the SS Miner to such an extreme, not would I have noticed the Bette Noir hello/assassinate/fast to bury trick which has now got people saying Bette is "broken" - and likely this whole "bury is broken" thing wouldn't have blown up the way it has (people had come to terms with LCB and Hoffman).

And it's the same with Gremlins, we (Calmdown and I) saw Spiku play them in a way we'd never seen before, and it made us actually read their cards - and that led to this "breaking" Somer idea we've come up with. And much of what we're thinking is built on ideas already developed by the community and being discussed now (for example, there is a glorious post by Spiku in one of the threads which must have taken hours to write).

But none of that would have been possible without a niche of players contributing ideas which I could build on, so the forum posting etc is kind of a catch-22.

I'd like to add to Lalo's post - just as some crews get promoted and instantly deemed broken, so you can see minions that get completely ignored, because they don't belong to the cool crews or cool builds... and even though there are tricks they can pull out and some solid synergies to employ, they are completely ignored because the forums do not count them in the super-class.

Gremlins are not the only example of this. Nicodem's recent re-evaluation can be tied to Calmdowns blog too. Hard to remember he used to be counted among absolutely the worst masters in the game and definitely in his faction (now it suddenly is Seamus?!).

But try to go somewhere less popular, like Black Blood Shaman, and there's virtually nothing in terms of new ideas how to use him. Even Aethervox skimmed over him (or rather, the reviewer clearly had too little practical experience to draw tips from), though they typically try to be thorough in their master reviews.

I agree, but think it's an Internet issue - people want to play the best way in their crew (most people should I say?) so will gravitate to the perceived strongest minions. And you dont see a lot of creativity as, like I said in my recent podcast chat, it takes a high level of skill to work out the last 10% of how to play a crew to it's best - and I think only a few people on here tend to do that.

Take ukrocky and what he did with Marcus. Marcus was a complete Joke master and Craig made him a force to be reckoned with and a lot of people on here now think Marcus is a strong master. Now, Craig didn't change the rules or play with different rules, he simply worked out the right way to play Marcus - and not everyone can do that. Same with Nicodem, same with Somer, same with Rasputina... but being realistic, I don't think anyone can help Guild. *wink*

It's the same as netlisting decks in Magic, web designers copying the design of Apple's website, and people going to the current bar/club that the celebrities frequent - people have a tendency to emulae what they know is working.

Also, whilst I think skill is an issue, let's not forget that a lot of people don't get as much opportunity to play as others (I get 3/4 games a week sometimes) so they're not going to spend the time experimenting, they want to play a solid crew they can have fun and win with - which again causes people to gravitate to proven minions/masters.

Lastly, budget is an issue too. I'm fortunate that I run my own business and am good at it so can afford to buy every Gremlin model on a whim to try them out, and I work hard for that so don't feel guilty about it. But some people can't do that so don't have the full selection to play with and, whilst proxying can get you so far, there's no substitute for having the mini in your case so you can "give it a go". That again means people are going to buy, and therefore focus on, the minions they see as the ones they should include.

It's a complex issue but there are always going to be fashionable masters and minions, I think what's important is that we rethink what we mean by "broken" and accept that losing badly to a crew doesn't mean there's a problem with game design. For example, if I get a bunch of mates together and play soccer against Manchester United, we're going to get pwnd big style, but that doesn't mean soccer is broken.

Actually he simply made a post stating that they gremlins are broken; someone else made the topic "breaking gremlins", to which neither Calmdown nor Magicpockets were contributing the "broken" combos.

This is actually true, we haven't posted anything on how to play Gremlins.

"Broken" is ...some of the Hamelin soulstone nonsense.

What a perfect example of the BS "broken" statements people make - this is not broken at all. Sure you get a powerful master sat on 20ss+ but that's balanced by the fact the player now only has 3AP with which to use them each turn and a single model (assuming you sac everyone) to achieve all schemes and your strategies.

The SS Factory as it's been dubbed is not a viable strategy for anything other than slaughter and possibly distract, and only works with limited schemes too. It's not "broken", it's called knowing how to play Malifaux under certain circumstances to turn an almost guaranteed loss (rat spawning in slaughter) into an opportunity to win - and in doing it you even hand VPs to your opponent as you have such a low percentage of your crew left.

Can we sing.... kum by yah....or whatever you spell it like...

I think that's the Taiwanese version....

Only if we can hold hands....

[TROLL]

...and Craig has a wash first.

[/TROLL]

(sorry)

1. I had a game yesterday in which we assumed the defender controlled the move. Since moving "towards" is generally considered to mean that the model cannot end its move farther away from the caster than it originally was, it seems to me that this only makes the opponent re-organise his model placement. So the question is, is this move controlled by the Hamelin player or by his opponent? If it is controlled by the opponent, shouldn't it state that they move directly towards him?

This is common misconception about towards it isn't just about ending closer than you started. The only difference between towards and directly towards is being able to move around certain terrain types, it still has to be the shortest distance towards the model and get as close to it as possible in the move. So the shortest route towards a model will always be straight at it, it's just you can go around terrain.

2. When affecting multiple units, who decides the order in which the models resist it? My insticts tell me the defender does, but I'm checking just in case.

Defender

3. The way the ability is worded makes it seem like the model had to move its entire Wk. If something, be it terrain or other models, prevents it from ending its move closer to Hamelin that it started, how does this work? Should they not move up to their Wk instead?

They move their whole walk to get as close as possible but they can avoid terrain and impassible items. They can end further away than would be possible if they're doing so to move the shortest route around terrain, but never end further away than they started.

Imagine -

|xxxxx Model xxxxx|

|xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx| >>> (ignore the xxxx as that's just for spacing)

|xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx|

|xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx|

-----------------------

Hamelin

You could go back and around which would end up with you actually further away from Hamelin than if you'd moved forward, rather than going straight forward and stopping short as you're avoiding the terrain. However, you're opponent doesn't have to and could walk into the "box" of terrain (as it's may) even though they haven't used their full walk.