Hatchethead

Do not ignore the glory that is Scalpel Slingin'. It's a Rg 6 Strike that doesn't count as a ranged attack (it simply extends McM's melee range to a ridiculous 6"). This means he can use it while in melee. It results in a Push, which means no disengaging Strikes. It's basically a Strike, a move, healing with Organ Donor, an additional body part and the ability to get in and out of combat without triggering enemy Strikes, all in a tidy (0) action. Use it. Abuse it.

Sorry...

Is still cooler... as she has scissors and can run with them.

Maybe, but Kirai is 10:crows. Doug is 11:crows. That's +1:crows, clearly better.

Plus: a vote for McMourning is a vote for constructs and sausages!

I mean isn't this the coolest puppet ever!

Not trying to bias the vote or anything

Nice. But:

Just look at that gum line!

blam blam blam pt-eeeowww!!

He's finally gone postal! Return fire!

He's spinning around really fast and firing his gun.

Why do you think that a Pulse needs LoS?

Because an individual crouched behind a wall would be able to avoid the storm of lead simply by keeping his head down, whereas some poor sap caught out in the open wouldn't be so lucky.

Pulses are infinitly high and therefore can draw LoS to anyone behind anything, regardless of Ht. That said, a ranged attack cannot, and it would make sense (in terms of fluff) for the bullets from Leadstorm to adhere to the LoS rules imposed by the .

BUT, from a strict rules perspective, if pulse properties supersede ranged restrictions, that makes sense as well. As we all know, rules and balance trump fluff-based logic everytime, and with good reason.

So the basically supersedes all targeting restrictions imposed by the ranged icon? It cannot be used in melee, which makes sense. I was expecting LoS to be a factor, unlike Detonate Tanks, if only due to the inclusion of the (which Detonate Tanks lacks), and it makes sense that LoS would come into play considering the fluff. Still, thanks Sketch and Ratty for the ruling!

I don't mind that Chompy has a turn 1 threat range of 38" or whatever bananas number it happens to be. I don't even mind that he can dump his whole crew on my doorstep. My issue is that he can jump in and out of combat with total control of his placement and almost zero fear of retaliation.

If he wants to blow his load jumping into my deployment zone on turn 1, okay, fine ... but at that point he should have to stand there and take it like a man. He has the ability to launch surgical strikes into my crew. I can accept that, but the Dreamer player should have to choose between keeping LCB safe from harm OR tossing him into melee with (and likely killing) the model of his choice. Being able to do both with relative ease is a tad OTT.

Um. OT, but when did PandaDirector become a puppet Slate Ridge Mauler??

Considering the recent Detonate Tanks ruling, I want to confirm that I'm playing Santiago's Leadstorm correctly.

(2) Leadstorm

(CC: 14/Rst: Df /Rg: :pulse6) Dg 4.

Unlike Detonate Tanks, which is a (1) Action, this is a (2) Spell, and it includes a classifying it as a ranged attack. It does not generate a duel, it merely inflicts Dg 4.

So:

1. Santiago cannot use this in melee, due to the ranged icon?

2. Despite the ranged icon, I assume no randomization for melee, everyone is targeted by the pulse? I'm not sure about this. What about the +1 Df for being in melee? It's not a Strike, but it is an attack, so I'm on the fence either way.

3. Does cover come into play in a Df resist duel? Does cover only apply to opposed Strikes, or does it apply here?

4. The ranged icon would indicate that Santiago needs LoS, even if a model is within the pulse?

I have a regular opponent who often uses the Santiago. Clarification would be appreciated.

Cheers!

Alrighty! I've just spent half an hour trying to glue resin and metal with plastic cement. I think it's bed time. Night all!

Happy to help, but I'm kind of sorry I asked.

The intention has been made quite clear. It's a monster fireball explosion. It wouldn't differentiate between multiple individuals in combat, cover likely wouldn't do any good. As Keltheos has said, the wording doesn't necessarily support the intention. Regardless of the wording, it is clear the duels are not meant to be Strikes.

I don't want to be caught in the :blast:blast when his head explodes.

*dives through plate glass window*

I'm about ready to invoke Facepalm.

The Specialist generates a pulse, not a ranged attack.

The pulse generates one ranged strike Duel per model within the pulse (not the Specialist).

These ranged strikes are resolved simultaneously.

The pulse can be activated and the ranged strikes resolved if the Specialist is in melee.

The pulse is not 'shooting into melee' as it's not a ranged attack so you do not randomize targets nor do the models receive +1 Df.

No need to invoke the palm! Everything makes sense to me except the last point. The pulse occurs, the ranged strikes are generated. Each model in range is attacked. The resulting ranged strikes do not adhere to the rules for ranged strikes (cover modifiers, randomized into melee, etc.)? I'm not asking about the pulse, I'm asking about the ranged strikes generated by the pulse.

Or are thy not actually ranged with a capital ? The pulse isn't generating Ranged () Strikes, it's simply generating duels (hence your emphasis)?

McMourning for President.

I've been waiting for a Doug puppet since puppets were a thing.

Showgirl puppets. Sweet!

maybe someone is scared of them.

Yeah. Someone with the ability to add a seemingly innocuous word to the forum censorship filter. Hmm.

How does this compare to something like Santiago's Leadstorm, Kel? Leadstorm is listed as a "Ranged Pulse", with both the and icons. I assume this means it CANNOT be used while in melee? It doesn't generate Strikes, of course, just a flat Dg 4 to everything in range.

Whereas Detonate Tanks can be used in melee thanks to the absence of the icon, it is otherwise the same as per a normal Ranged attack (enemy models can claim cover, must flip for firing into melee, etc) ...?

Sounds grievous.

"Niño Shock" is very common amongst groups new to Malifaux.

As has been mentioned, terrain is key. There should never be a situation where a model with an 18" range can "draw LoS to almost everything." That's just not right. It's important to remember that Ht1 terrain only blocks LoS to Ht1 models, and that's only if the attacker is Ht1. Fences, hedges, low walls and the like all provide cover, but even then you need to be within 1". You need to pack in stuff that's Ht2 or higher, blocking or obscuring.

If there's plenty of terrain and yet diagonal deployment provides multiple firing lanes, that's clearly a problem.

I can't speak to Ramos and the Arcanists, but Crooligans might help your Rezzers. The Mist is obscuring and doesn't count as terrain, so Niño's Hunter ability is useless. He can only see 3" into it like everyone else. Or sic a Shikome on his ass. I've enjoyed more than a couple turn 2 Niño kills with the bird lady.

Not too much, Hatchet... sick (ish).... now uber tired due to benydril... and I was sleepy already...

how are you?

Siesta time?

I'm fine. So busy, no time for fun. I have this heap of models that need pinning. So depressing. They just sit there, begging to be assembled.

And don't get me started on painting ...

I'm on fire, I also have a horse made of fire and I can now fly

Sounds like you've had a productive day.

*emerges from the cellar, unfolds a lawn chair and settles into it*

What's up, thread?

Haha. And here I am thinking "Adam" is just a player in Nix's meta who happens to be a very good Doug player.

... which isn't to say I don't dig on Ravenloft. The original D&D supplement is buried deep in my geek closet, somewhere in the circa 1994 strata next to my Super Nintendo and a 5 disc copy of Doom II.

I feel Wyrd has done good with Book 3. There aren't many (if any) minions that make me drop a bucket, dance a jig or scream bloody murder. More options, yes. Auto-includes? Not many. That's a good thing, in my eyes. We have more models to play with but little that will make previous models obsolete. It's a different feel from Book 2, where every new minion made my eyebrows twitch.

I agree with Nix in that avatars are the best way to gauge the shifting of the meta. As a Rezzer, I feel we've done very well. Kirai is super situational but still badass when it comes to needing a scary beatstick in the closing turns of a game, when Ikiryo alone just won't do. The other three are very nice. Seamus, arguably our weakest master in a competitive setting, suddenly feels viable with the inclusion of Anathema. Nico takes on a new unlife of his own. With the appearance of 29, Doug gets better at what he's already awesome at.

Did we "win" the book? I dunno, but I feel we're pretty high on the podium.

I got a score of 8. Not sure what that means.

According to the link for my gender/age range, I guess I'm pretty okay.

So help us get away from that annoying bit Hatchet and weigh in as to your thoughts on the matter

Heck no! Neverborn are hardly my forte. I'm especially lax in matters of the twins. On that topic, any contribution I could make to this particular thread would be dubious at best. I lurk, I learn.

Balance discussions often assume the highest level of play possible, an arena wherein no one makes mistakes (as mistakes are a randomizing factor and should never be considered a balancing factor). But in doing so, we allow individuals to craft ideal scenarios to prove a point, if only because a world class player would never put themselves in a scenario that sees them at a disadvantage. The discussion ceases to be about the model as player skill becomes the sole point of contention. It's all very cyclical and self-defeating, more often than not.

Which isn't to say I believe fruitful balance discussions are impossible. Just ... impossibly delicate.

But I'm OT. Ignore me.

/lurk

... and this is where the discussion falls down. We reach a boiling point where player skill enters the equation and both sides begin questioning individual skill or the skill of an individual's opponent. Suddenly, it's all hearsay. It doesn't matter what you say or what proof you provide as it can be discounted and dismissed as a factor of player skill (or lack thereof).

Unless you're playing in a meta with a proven history of high caliber play and the recorded rankings to back it up, it becomes impossible to enjoy a reasonable discourse.

I hate to see an otherwise interesting thread death spiral, but I suppose it's inevitable. Good discussion otherwise, gents.

Only molly, necrotic machine, dead rider, rogue necromancy and datsue ba still need to be done. as well as all the stuff from book 3, of course

... all models I lack experience with. Hmm.

Hope to change that soon. Molly is pre-ordered, Dead Rider small box is on my desk, Datsue-ba is staring at me (disapprovingly) from my shelf. Stop looking at me, swan!