Q'iq'el

Colette thing makes me a bit sad, but I guess I'll just leave the entire avatar thing for the time being and focus on finding a good model for Barbaros.  

On 2016年5月30日 at 3:26 PM, Bengt said:

Avatars are part of the Shifting Loyalties campaign system, they are not legal in "normal" play (though obviously in a friendly game you and your opponent can do whatever you agree on  ). The Avatar models are also official proxies for the Emissaries, which storywise are Effigies supercharged with avatar power. The emissaries are also in Shifting Loyalties and they have a bunch of 0 cost upgrades that matches the various masters.

I'm digging through the expansion books and I've got to the avatars finally. I have the original metal models for Nicodem, Lilith and Colette avatars and I'd love to use them, but it seems the Avatars are somewhat different now... More like an upgrade to the character than the game-changing thing they used to be. I'm especially confused about Colette, as I don't see any reference to her splitting into three models anymore (I guess I'll have to base all three models on a single 50mm base...). 

Is there any way to get the manifestation cards and perhaps the avatar cards for these old models? They are not in the W2 Arsenal Decks...

I'd used sleeves for Malifaux, but I've bought laminating machine for the cards at some point... With the new cards being plastic and rigid, I wonder if the sleeves wouldn't be more convenient again... (not to mention that laminating and cutting out whole Arsenal decks is not something I look forward to )

Thanks for the info. 

On 2016年5月31日 at 5:28 PM, Adran said:

If you aren't planning on playing any faction that you don't already own at least 1 arsenal deck for, you might find it  cheaper to just order the wave 1 aracnist arsenal deck, or photocopy/ print for the pdf the cards you want. But its malifaux. You may well end up playing another faction, and want those upgrades as well. 

It occurred to me just now, as I was about to order one of the e-books... are the Malifaux e-books printable? Can I print out the cards inside to cut them out and laminate? I think I may need just a couple of Arcanist upgrades and perhaps some extra Terror Tots...

Thanks for the warm welcome!  It's scary how much I've forgotten. 

Thank you very much. I remember old PDFs from Wyrd suffered from optimization issues as well. I'll try the free Rules booklet and we how it goes.

Thanks for all the help! 

Thank you very much! I think I have a good starting point then. And a follow-up question:

I've noticed in the ebooks' comments section some people complain they are heavy and slow to open. I have iPad Mini Retina (the second generation I believe) - I wonder if it can handle the books?

Hello! [dusts off]

I'd played my last game of Malifaux somewhere at the end of 2011 and actually haven't played anything since (life). Recently I've found a gaming partner interested in the game and I'm thinking about diving headfirst into M2E, but I'm a bit lost. If someone could help me with the following questions, I'd be very grateful.

1. The books. I have the Rulebook for M2E (one of my last gaming purchases, but I'm reading it only now) and I understand there are two M2E expansion books. Can anyone tell me what is in them and do I need them immediately? Also, I seem to remember hearing about e-books, but can't find any in the Webstore. I'd prefer ebooks, especially if they are getting upgraded with all the errata the way some other companies do (are they?). Are there official Wyrd published e-books for M2E?

2. The Arsenal Decks... I have the old school Lilith, Colette and Nikodem crews... very extended. I also have Molly and some Outcast Mercenaries. I've got Wave 1 Arsenal decks for Neverborn, Resurrectionists and Outcasts and just ordered Wave 2 decks for Archaists, Neverborn, Resurrectionists and Outcasts. I understand Colette crew is entirely covered by the wave 2 Arcanists deck, but how about upgrade cards? Do I need Wave 1 box for her upgrades (don't know exactly how to play with those yet). Any other decks I should think about getting?

3. The models - I still have models to paint and lots of stuff I haven't even played with... so the new models have low priority... On the top of that, unpopular as it may be, I definitely prefer the looks of old school Malifaux to the new plastics - it's only a matter of the style, as I'm not a metal fan at all.   So I'm going to keep playing with my old models for considerable future... there is just one hole I'd like to fill and that is Barbaros. I'm looking for an alt for him and I'd love it to fit the old Nephilim looks. I'd be grateful for all the suggestions.

4. The web based crew-creator I have working link for (Ratty's) haven't been updated for the 2E. Are there any working 2E crew creators?

5. Any other stuff a 1E player should get before returning to the 2E?

Thanks in advance for help!

P.S.

6. How about avatars? Are they in the Wave 2 or 3? I have the old metal Avatars for all my crews, but I still have to put them together...

Not sure why you think it is an "obvious glitch"? Maybe it is the intention of the author?

Fluff wise it can be justified. Lady justice is attackied in the box by the Void and fights it off with Reposte...don´t think that is to hard to justify?

Being Buried means a lot of different things...for some it just means that they are at another place but otherwise no change.

Riposte on the other hand doesn't mean many things - it is a fencing move and I suppose it could be extended, conditionally, to a shooting duel. Lady J is being burried out of range and LoS and clearly, the Void Wretch attack is something going through other dimensions and hitting targets which in the material world of Malifaux are perfectly hidden.

So to imagine a fencing move that somehow responds to what sound as inter-dimensional psychic attack of sorts is a bit of a stretch for me.

I also think it is a glitch, because everything about "Bury" speaks of taking model out of play. Historically, so to speak, the ability had absolute effect stopping everything from affecting the model, but that caused problems with Nurses and Bête Noire and several other such models. Lady J's Riposte wouldn't come into play in any other situation but an attack such as Void Wretch's one, because no other attack can touch her when she is buried. It seems to me that one situation is an oversight which goes against the logic of the state and all the other rules which govern it. Of course it isn't "illegal" in the pure game terms, it just seems not what should be happening.

Perhaps Riposte should have range/los requirement?

Oh, no, I understand that M2E rulebook doesn't define "not in play" as well as the old one, but the wording of the Buried rules and how it normally works still conveys the intent pretty well.

Additionaly, the Buried "rule" is rather complex, if you analyze its components beyond direct wording - it is both prohibitive (places models outside of LoS and range of all effects and bars it from acting) and permissive in a very limited sense - it only allows the model to process conditions at the end of the Turn (and no other effects or conditions, which is important to remember just in case such an effect appears in the game.).

The problem is, as it often happens in Malifaux, with the rules breaking the standard mechanics and in this case it is the Void Wretch which is the culprit. For all other models the Buried opponent is simply not in LOS and not in range and there is no worry it will ever have to perform a duel. So the question is how to fix the Void Wretch so that it doesn't allow Lady J to perform her trigger, as it clearly shouldn't happen for a model not in play.

Now of course you can argue the rules allow for the trigger to go, but since we're in early stages of 2E we need to give the intent some regard and let the rules as written rest for a short while. It is just an obvious glitch caused just by this one model, and a likely subject for Errata.

I don't think trigger rules need to state anything. Model not in play simply cannot do anything at all, and declaring a trigger is definitely part of the play. Resolving effects which are on the model is different, because the model is passive.

I'd say the reason she cannot declare the trigger is that she's not in play. Buried models are not taking part in the game. They can be targeted by this exceptional ability, and they resolve effects on them, but otherwise you simply cannot do anything with them, until they get unburied and return to play.

The change in style is even bigger of a problem than the availability of the minis, I think. I've been a big proponent of going plastic and I kind of appreciate that the miniatures' style is more consistent now, but I liked the original Malifaux minis the most and I feel the new Brood departs a bit too far from that. Look at metal Young Nephilim - they look almost playful as they approach their opponents, while the CG shot of Barbaros looks like he belonged in the Ten Thunders and new Lilith is spiteful, if anything (not a bad sculpt, I think, just not the image of Neverborn queen relishing the combat, she used to be).

Anyway, IMHO for the old metal crews it'd be easiest to pick up some proxy from the offer of the original sculptors. The style is often very similar. Wasn't the original Lilith crew commissioned from Werner Klocke?

There's a multitude of female demon sculpts of his that'd fit the bill (even if you leave out all the naked girls ) and quite a few male candidates from his vampires and such. I believe Dark Age has a few of demons of his (Gazelle comes to mind and is a stunning model) and his female anti-paladin (Cassiata?) is a very nice armored model, fighting with human weapons and still fit for a Lilith crew, I think.

His Chaos Champion seems to fit the bill perfectly for a male character armed and a good fit for a former pit-fighter Neverborn (other than lack of wings), but I'm not sure if it still available.

---------- Post added at 10:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:00 AM ----------

Here's the link for the champion: https://www.coolminiornot.com/shop/chaos-champion.html

Because they are small enough to fit in clear card sleeves... Playing card sized

Meh.

This is actually a very convincing argument! For some reason I assumed they are the same size as the old ones, and those were a nightmare to find sleeves for (at least around here).

I wouldn't laminate.

Get some cards sleeves.

Why not? Worked for me great in 1st ed.

The only one I'm down on, is Canine Remains. Only 2? I've got four of them!

Well, I think I have 6 or 9 Mindless Zombies, and there are only 3 cards in the box. What makes it tricky is that I don't know how fast will I be generating MZs in the M2E - it may well be that 3 cards are more than enough.

For now I've took 1 box. I'm going to laminate the cards anyway and I can always mark up the wounds and effects in columns, 2 or 4 models per card. After I figure out how many I really need, I order additional ones.

The issue there is that if you have to deploy/move to counter the alpha strike, then without doing anything, your opponent is already controlling your actions. Much like the original Alp Bomb, it was a passive way to gain an advantage without having to take an action, and required a different crew composition as well.

This can be said about every powerful ability in every game, that's why I personally have always considered it invalid criticism. It is the very point of most powerful abilities to mess up with the opponents gaming plan - against skilled opponent, these abilities hardly ever work to their full extent and more often than not it doesn't make sense to spend resources on them, since the opponent is prepared. Instead, you exploit the fact the opponent had to prepare and couldn't commit to what he really wanted to do.

We could argue whether that effect was extensive or not, in case of the old alpha-strike, but the effect itself has never been a problem.

When a fresh player was trying Malifaux out, though, and experiencing a total early game wipe-out, due to an alpha strike, with perception there had been nothing to be done... well that was a turn-off and one of the reasons why people were critical of Malifaux and not willing to give it a try. Hopefully 2E fixes that alongside other entry-level problems.

Thanks for all the answers!

I suppose the lack of cards will be less of a problem in the case of Mature Nephilim, but I'll have to think what to do with Mindless Zombies.

My ordering finger gets more and more itchy.

And if I mature my Young Nephilim into the Mature one during the game, can it get an upgrade too? Aren't those bought before the game starts, with SS?

So many questions! But I guess I just want to figure out how many boxes to order for now.

Mature Nephilim no longer has a rare value, is an Enforcer, so it can take an Upgrade, and costs 11ss. As far as the # of their cards in an Arsenal Deck, I'd love to tell ya, but they're missing from the webstore atm, thus their lists on there are also down. I think there was a list somewhere here in the forums, though.

I, too, am disheartened by the reduction to Vultures and Mosquitoes and certain other models; however, the removal of rare values from other models, like the Mature and Teddy should more than make up for it.

I have the list in the PDFs from the sticky thread in the forums, so that's ok. Please fill me in on the Enforcer rule? What does it mean? And most importantly, it they are not Rare anymore, why there's only 1 card in the Arsenal deck? I think most of the old school Lilith players have 2 Matures in their collection and if it is possible (and makes sense) to field 2, I'll get the 2nd Arsenal box just for that (and more Terror Tot cards, perhaps).

What does the card say?

Is it Rare 1?

if not then you can have more than one regardless of cards in the box.

For Mature Nephilim it used to be Rare 2. Don't have the book yet, so I don't know what it is now, but there's only 1 card in the box, according to the PDFs. I guess it's been reduced in 2E. I wonder what to do with my second MN now.

How about Mature Nephilim? They have only one card in the arsenal as well?

---------- Post added at 02:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:20 PM ----------

I've considered getting 2 boxes of both Rezzers and Neverborn, but if all these models have been limited to 1, I can manage having some Mindless Zombies and Terror Tots without proper cards...

I think the complaint issue is bigger than it being too powerful. It was something that could be very powerful when starting out, and created bad games, but it wasn't that powerful in the long run.

I think the key here is "against unexperienced opponents". If you knew what to expect, you could brace for it, and then the opponent probably wouldn't alpha-strike you in the first place (because then you'd have well prepared crew to respond and use all the activations to wipe him out).

It was one of several things which attributed to step learning curve and made people hesitant about starting Malifaux, so it makes sense it changed.

Hi!

So I'm planning my return to Malifaux after a short baby-induced hiatus, and I'm about to order the book and the Arsenal decks for Neverborn, Resurrectionists and Outcasts (for Mercenaries I own).

The PDFs with the decks' contents state Resurrectionists' deck has only one Vulture card. Is it right? The main point in taking Vultures (which I use a lot) is taking 2 of them. Or is there a change in 2E and I can't take 2 Vultures anymore?

Is there anything else I should watch for with these two factions?

Last but not least, I understand the Book 2 and Book 3 models haven't made it to the wave 1 decks, but are their stats in the book, or are those models completely unplayable in 2E, for the time being?

TIA