poulpox

Right, finally had a successful use of aMarcus, vs Viks:

The conditions were more or less as usual: by turn 4 I had RogueN left and 2 Night Terrors, having lost 2 Raptors and McTav, and managed only 1 manifestation requirement by crossing all over the board to strike down a librarian; interestingly my opponent was playing cagey, sending only a convict forward supported by VonSchill and Viks, so when I pierced deep through his line, he started regrouping back, particularly as we were playing contain power and Marcus was then a juicy target.

On turn 4 I had the card and ss so I pulled the trick: 1 manifest, 1 walk, 0 smell fear, 1 roar and had the whole of my friend's crew but one Vik falling back! Now this allowed me to charge the convict, which in turn put me in range of RN to activate it immediately to charge as well, nice!

The only downfall to that is that I just couldn't kill anything: one charge on convict wasn't of course enough to kill it, and going after Viks who still had ss wouldn't have worked neither. While the RN could have finished the convict I went after one Vik instead who soulstoned her way out of pain.

One issue with this plan is that I Roared as my first activation (it was looking a bit dangerous), which meant none of his guys had activated yet but VonSchill, and therefore I lost the potential of crippling him well the following turn (except for VS which I guess is good enough considering the range threat the guy is).

Also as Koali wrote, going after masters is tough and so uncertain if they have ss left (there's usually at least 1 or 2 left at turn 4) that this combo isn't great with killing masters in mind (although it could happen).

But what this demonstrated most of all is the power of a soulstoned Roar, which was in this game a game breaker: the Viks' crew was blocked until turn 5 (if done well it could have been turn 6) which allowed me to reposition myself and take my objectives.

So as I see it now the Roar combo is particularly good for screwing opponent's positioning and bogging him down for a turn, and maybe nucking a minion in the way, which is rather nice: as we know it's not about killing the opponent, but fulfilling strats and schemes.

I was glad it finally worked!

Woow very nice!!

Yes, going for Assassinate is never an easy task, but hey, I like a challenge!

I think the point of this reflection/thread is just to try and juice out the best out of aMarcus, and maybe master hunting is what the avatar is ultimately designed for?

You're right about Pandora, losing the Wp point might be an open door to trouble.

Regarding Rasputina, yes she's tough but just like all other masters. It's just that she has no special resilience to the Roar tactic I think, and therefore is a good target. The fact that her crew are constructs isn't really an issue, and in fact using aMarcus poisonous attakcs can be very useful in this case to avoid being in melee when the models is killed. My idea here is just a Roaring Assassination which concentrates on the opponent's master.

Yes there is a bit of luck, well always so indeed, but in my experience by turn 5 the ss pools can be very depleted and therefore a good opportunity to strike if the Marcus player has managed his own pool well.

I used to turn the non-beast models into beast too with raptors, however several times I did fail to get the trigger to happen after 3 turns, particularly when trying wit hSnowStorm or Joss who have such high Df, locking both raptors and the beatstick in the back, while now I enjoy having the raptors forward in recon and in the feet of the opponent where they are so useful; furthermore using raptors to beastify led me to forget several times in the past that Marcus could feral his own models when needed; it's just another way of doing, both are good (using feral also avoids your own model to lose 1 Wd which can sometimes be a crucial Wd not to have!)

I hope to be able to try out the roar soon

I think because Kirai is still tough to assassinate if she has Seishins still hanging around, even if not in spirit world. Furthermore, aMarcus isn't really geared for dealing serious Dg against spirits, unlike Marcus' buffed shilelagh attacks, so even if you were to concentrate on taking her down until then you would struggle to kill the minions (well unless you geared your minions to do it).

I agree that more masters and minions is a slippery slope: because Malifaux's game-play is so different and some masters have such a completely inovative way of doing things, the sheer variety of individual rules makes it quite difficult to remember who does what in one's own crew, let alone the opponent's; I'd fear that too many variations, and too many options could be mind destroying (hell, when an avatar comes on the field, my brain is already smoking thinking about what that model was supposed to do!).

The safer option would be to release models with rules which aren't too different, allowing for easier assimilation and remembering, and also to keep faction balanced (ie all factions have more or less access to the same-ish stuff, yet still keeping some key differences), which I think is more or less what Wyrd has been doing so far.

Special forces and Henchmen upgrading of normal models? Why not, but CAMPAIGN yes!!! I'd love that campaign/story telling to come to the fore; could Mallifaux become one of the first to replace tournament scene with something more... original? Something more storytelling-ish somehow? Tournament campaign kinda thing? And ditch the ugly gaining ground time limit, to promote a more vibrant, richer tournament scene!

Well, continuing my bable on aMarcus (am I the only one trying to get it to work?), I sat and pondered on what was meant to be his purpose. We all have a purpose in life, even aMarcus!

As far as we've seen he either debuffs several models, or alpha strikes, that's more or less it, and he has a great obey type spell, and Roar which is very powerful. So what particular use can there be for it? And then I thought of Assassinate.

Now regular Marcus can Stare Down a master, but cannot Dominate a master, so at first glance Marcus is better at neutralising opponent masters. However, to Stare down means that Marcus has to do feral beforehand, which means he'll probably have no buff on his Dg, and will only be able to perform a (2) Charge to strike the enemy. With me so far?

With aMarcus, when facing Living masters, you suddenly have access to Roar, and the potential to make an opponent's master fall back, which is very huge. Not only that, but combined with Smell Fear, this gives you a free charge, awesome!

If you've already manifested, you'll probably need to move in range of Smell Fear (6") to have the full potential of the combo:

(1) Fly in place

(0) Smell Fear

(1) Roar (hopefully then you get to charge)

(1) Strike

Now this is where this gets funky is if you have one non-living bully closeby, say Rogue Necro (but you could use SnowStorm or Joss, but Steamborg I'm not sure since he counts also as living, also not Mechanical Rider since it has Immune to Influence), and maybe McTavish to make sure the RN is in the right place at the beginning of the move:

McTavish:

(1) Wrangle Critter on RN to put it within 10" of enemy master

(+ whatever else you want)

aMarcus:

(1) Fly into position

(0) Smell Fear

(0) Feral on your beat-stick if it's not a beast *

(1) Roar (and charge)

(1) Instinctive Behaviour on RN to charge (with RN it's a charge of 11"!) master which is falling back

Then tadaaa! Thanks to Rise of the Beasts, RN gets to activate immediately, inflicting more pain on a master who has negative flip on all its defense flips!

*You need to use a non-living beast so that it doesn't fall back because of Roar. If the model is not a beast (SnowStorm, Joss), you can use Feral on it before you cast Instinctive Behaviour on it.

Suddenly, with the chance of having the opponent's master unable to cheat fate because of falling back, the prognostic of taking them down is rather high.

If you manage to pull this after the opponent's master has activated, this also means that they will spend next turn rallying, still plagued with a negative flip, and unable to move away (I'm looking at you Von Schill...!)

This combo only requires a high tome + ss for Roar and a ram for IB; it's not certain to work since the opponent will also have use of ss, but I think if it's tried towards the end of the game, turn 5 or 6, there are good chances the ss will be depleted or low especially if you tried to force them out.

There are a fair amount of masters you could pull this off against:

. LadyJ and Sonnia (against the latter aMarcus is definitely good to manifest as he loses 1 point of casting thus unabling Sonnia to cast without LoS against him).

Not Hoff (construct) or Perdita (immune to influence)

. All 3 living resser masters (not Kirai)

. Marcus and Colette and Rasputina (although against the latter's crew aMarcus isn't maybe the best choice)

Not Ramos (construct)

. Lilith (great to target her Wp rather than her Df as well) and Pandora.

Not Dreamer (Spirit/Nightmare) or Zoraida (Wp 10 is a bit to high, unless she doesn't have any ss left)

. Som'er and Viks.

Not Levi nor Hamlin (Souless).

I will now go on and try to make this work to see...

Hello!

I think it is an attack when there is a resist flip (I think it's written somewhere in RM), which there is in an disengaging strike. So it is not a (1) Strike Action, but it is an attack. Well at least that's how I'd play it

Personally, the game is starting to feel a bit stale...

This is unfortunately the syndrome plaguing the player community: a constant craving for new, for more... Although it does motivate creators to bring on fresh and great ideas and stuff (and make sales!), it does mean players are a fickle specy, getting bored so quickly of a system and ever so quick to change systems; our club keeps on changing games again and again, which makes it hard to follow, and leaves you with lots of models, armies, crews that you barely ever use, to the delight of the missus ("why do you buy this if you never use it?!").

It's hard these days with so many systems, so many options to keep a group actively playing the same stuff regularly and for a long period.

But as others said Wyrd has provided continously amazing stuff, and I hope players can keep on appreciating it, I know I still do and I look forward to the community strengthening even more!

Last addition: Mechanical Rider

Hope you like!

For high Dg minions I usually take SnowStorm or Rogue Necro and/or Silurid pack (usually 2). If I don't care too much for high minimum Dg and I want more resilient/board control I like Bishop a lot. I love playing with one high ss model (particularly to avoid giving away a kill protege). Mechanical Rider is another one which I should try soon. Finally Joss is good too, but not really if you have to go far.

Well I had one more go, this time against McMourning.

Avatar Marcus was once more... lame. His supposed talent being to alpha strike with 2+ more models was useless once more as there was only one potential beast left close by, although I did play quite cagey; he was just so unable to do damage: his options are either debuff ennemies and sit still, or IF you have the cards, do some damage, and facing 2 flesh constructs was overwhelming: striking with a minimum of 2 Dg just isn't enough.

There was nothing aMarcus was more useful at doing than Marcus (the only potential one was Diving Attack, which is great but not enough to my taste).

I try to be positive about aMarcus, but... I'm sadly struggling to see the potential here: too limited with opponents match-ups (usable only vs Living and Undead to be worth it), too card dependent and consuming (I think Chimeric Assault could maybe be discard one card per activation, not per strike? Although there is value in doing different kind of strikes, it's just too much a waste of cards!), minimum Dg of 2 even when discarding Ram (I wonder if this is a mistake, as Evolutionary Confluence, which is a combination of most suits' "power-ups" has a minimum of 3 Dg?). Slower than Marcus.

But most of all, I can't see what aMarcus does different from his Master beside Roar and Diving Attack?! By the time he manifests, there's just not many models left to alpha strike, and his own power is too similar to Marcus.

I feel disappointed by the model (I have made a point to try and like it, even the sculpt!), and I think I'm not going to bother with it anymore unless someone offers a brilliant idea!

T.

Yes, I agree LJ would be able to damage the Waldgeist in this instance as the only condition envolved in the trigger is for the ennemy to fail a melee attack, which Haunted Forest ability is; she probably cuts down a few branches in that forest which Waldgeist are sensitive about

Well, I had another go with aMarcus, and it was... well, nothing really special.

In a game vs Ophelia, by the time I manifested all my petty beasts were dead... Although I did manage a Roar to criple a few gremlins in a turn, I was still left with the feeling that the avatar wasn't doing anything his fellow Master could have done.

Not having minions about to boost is really leaving aMarcus unable to perform to his max potential, but I strugle to manisfest before turn 4 (I can usually do it as a (2) in turn 3 but I feel it's a little of a waste), and by that time, the beasts are usually out, although I must admit I wasn't trying to hold back the minions until I manifefsted, which I guess was a mistake.

Tough avatar to find uses for I think, but I aren't giving up yet!

Doing Defend Me during as a charge response you have to do the charge duel as usual, then when you have the duel totals you declare your trigger and Marcus switches with the nearby beast, finally the result you had got to on your duel are applied to the defending beast (so if the charge strike misses, you can still switch places, but the defending beast doesn't get damaged).

Hope this helps

This is on the Daydream card too if you need written support for your opponent, that they can only cast the Dreamer's spells when he is on the table.

You'd rather cast a spell with a straight 4 to do up to five damage rather than a paired 6 to do up to 8?

Spirits and HTW 2 are the only time I use this ability...

Well, I'm particularly talking of SnowStorm vs Ophelia here, and with his spirit, bulletproof 3 and auto-soft cover, range attacks are harder to pull. Ophelia has great ease to pop such a tough 11ss model in 2-3 APs, she is mos def a bigger threat than I anticipated!

It does feel... hmmm... nasty!

Hello there!

Had a game using SnowStorm against Ophelia, and I discovered her Right Between the Eyes spell has no gun icon, so no cover, no bullet-proof, with triple positive flip on damage from a model using ss, is this right? The book even says no rst! (although I think the card says rst: Df as might mate said to flip for Df, but there's nothing about it on the errata). All that from 10" away?

One attack caused a 5 Dg -> 5 Wd to SnowStorm, and she can do it 3 times with Reckless?

Is Ophelia the ultimate spirit hunter?? O_O

Yes, Silurids are very awesome, particularly against living and undead crews!

What types of paints are you using? Reaper? GW? Vallejo? other?

Woops sorry, I never saw this question! I use mainly GW, including washes, and a few P3 here and there (skin tones mainly).

Next mini to come: Mechanical Rider, once exam period is over...

I feel your pain: I'm desperately trying to use RN with Marcus, but until now when facing shooty crews it's really tough and I have been much more successful with SnowStorm for a similar amount of ss (I usually play 35ss). I am going to try it with McTav though in my next game, to see if I can pull off a Wrangle Critter on RN at the right time and throw it quickly in melee. Shame RN doesn't have Eat your Fill or similar!

I think we also have to think Ht may include the girth or width too, for instance Rogue Necro or plump Stitched Together

It really depends of stategies for me, and while they were my low cost of choice NT are now it if I need significant models on the board. However Alps still have some fight in them and are good to mess up with the opponent.

I agree that when model count is important for strategy, it is not easy with Dreamer crew (I don't buy multiple blister of things so although I could have more NT or Madnesses, I only have one pack of each type).

Hopefully time will bring us a bit more choice

Woops got half of it wrong, sorry

I think this is right. Also if I remember correctly Austringers have a positive flip on strikes vs Silurids, so although they might have a negative due to cover that they can't ignore, it is still a straight flip nonetheless.