tattyted

Paid

Count me in !

Count me in please Dave.

cheers mate

Not disagreeing with you Ausplosions, but just out of curiosity, could you explain why not? Red joker on damage flip means severe plus an additional damage. While the situation is certainly very rare, the red joker was still flipped on a damage flip.

Is there an errata on this?

Show ya the door uses melee cb. That doesn't make it a strike: simply a duel where melee cb is one of the starting stats. In the same way that you can have a duel using wp that is not a morale duel.

Mine was on the sprue

Blast damage is not halved it is one band less - so if the target takes severe damage any model under a blast takes moderate. In this case the severe is 5 and moderate is 4 so the blast causes 4. If Raspy did moderate damage on target whisch is 4 and 1blast anything under the blast takes weak damage which is 2.

Edit - Beaten to it by Cunning Stunt

I thought that anything touched by any of the blast markers took damage one level lower than the damage inflicted on the target. So the model hit by the second blast in this case would still take 4?

Is there anywhere that states the change? Its not listed in the model errata (other base size changes such as hunter are) and I can't find anything in a forum search? Doesn't bother me personally but I'm doing a couple of them as part of a Ramos crew commission for a friend. They fit easier on a 50mm but it could affect the game as they would drop an extra scrap counter?

Round bases for measuring blasts etc. begs the question though - would square bases give an advantage if you were using terraclips scenery? Given they have the handy grid system marked on?

Levi can't connect totems - he can have one in his crew if its connected to his Henchman...

Is that correct? His card (v3) says he can't hire totems.

Great write up.

My belief is that the thread says that the model is effected by slow/fast throughout that activation to stop the model gaining multiple instances of the Action modifier.

Not that you can remove the effects of the action modifier and so apply it again

But if the slow lasts through the turn and therefore can be negated during the turn, then you could use reckless to remove the slow.

Now, there is nothing in the book that says a model cannot be given fast (from different sources)only once in a turn. Its simply that it's not worth doing as they don't stack so every (+1)ap after the first is ignored. The important thing here is that the slow and fast cancel out and the rulebook specifically says they are both removed. So the slow lasts into the activation either till the end of the activation OR up until the point the fast cancels it out

SO, the question I have is; when the second fast affects the model, why is it ignored? The first has been removed so the ap is not stacking. I can see no other reason why it should not apply.

Just to be clear we are only talking about situations where a fast is applied to cancel out a slow and then a different ability or effect gives fast.

Thanks guys. The trouble is I understand what you are saying but it seems at odds with the rules marshall clarification. The clarification is in this thread;

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?20580-When-exactly-does-Slow-fall-off&highlight=reckless+fast

While there is some debate about using fast twice, there is no challenge in that thread to the clarification that slow resolves at the end of the activation. What people are saying now is that slow means you forfeit 1 ap on activation and the slow then goes away.

What I am trying to find out is when did that change take place? The rules manual says that the -1ap is forfeited during the turn, the only clarification from a rules marshall that I can find says the end of the turn, so why is everyone now so certain that it is forfeited at the start of the activation? I can accept that I may be wrong but what have I missed?

And as I said in the first post, I am not suggesting that reckless could be used twice.

This has caused some heated debate in a different thread, so thought I would ask a couple of questions simply and carefully.

1) If a model starts its activation with slow on it, can the model use reckless to cancel out the slow?

2) having cancelled out both the slow and fast is it right that the model is not affected by either and therefore that model can then gain fast (or indeed slow) later in the turn through a different effect (i.e. not using reckless twice)?

I am aware that Ratty said this could be done in a clarification in a thread a year and a half ago, however I have also been told that since the thread predates the recent errata/FAQs it carries no weight. I cannot find anything in the errata or FAQ that replaces it. So question 3;

3) Are clarifications issued before the errata/FAQs now null and void if they are not mentioned in the errata?

Grateful if a rules marshall could give a determination.:Confused_Puppet:

If she starts in the Aura, she has had her reckless replaced with fast, so she can't use Reckless.

If she gains slow during her activation she will lose 1 AP at the point she gains the slow.

Agreed 100%. I am only talking about a specific situation where she starts her activation with slow and more than 6" from Yamaziko.

Misaki, Mistress of the Ten Thunders has (+1) Reckless.

Reckless This model may suffer 1 wound to receive Fast.

The (+1) next to it means that it may only use Reckless to gain Fast once per activation.

Yamaziko has the Ability Trusted Mentor.

Trusted Mentor: While within 6" of this model, friendly Misaki, Mistress of the Ten Thunders models lose the Reckless Ability and gain the Fast Ability.

So, at its most basic, Misaki either uses her Reckless Ability to suffer 1 wound to receive Fast, or she activates within 6" of Yamaziko / uses some of her activation to move to within 6" of Yamaziko, to save herself from suffering 1 wound to receive Fast.

------------------

Now, should Misaki receive Slow from any source, she can either use her Reckless Ability to suffer 1 wound to receive Fast, thus negating the Slow, or she activates within 6" of Yamaziko / uses some of her activation to move to within 6" of Yamaziko, to save herself from suffering 1 wound to receive Fast to thus negate the Slow.

In order to gain an instance of Fast that is not merely negating an instance of Slow, it would still require another model, such as the Student of Conflict, to bestow it upon her.

Verstehen Sie?

Ja, verstehen

But if she activates 10" away from Yamaziko and has slow on her then she can use reckless to cancel the slow, then a general ap to move to within 6" of Yamaziko. Yamaziko then bestows fast on her (like the student of conflict) and she gains fast. Only uses reckless once (before losing it).

---------- Post added at 05:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:12 PM ----------

That's a good explanation, although it doesn't cover the reverse situation (where she gains Slow and then activates inside Yama's aura, thus having Slow and Fast from the start of her activation).

They do cancel out, thats the point. Since I've already been accused of rules lawyering because I read whats actually written on the card, can I point out what is actually written in the rules manual under action modifiers (page 34);

'If a model affected by fast gains slow, or vice versa, the two cancel out and both effects are removed.'

Guy in Suit -I was a playtester too.

Now I see the confusion. Read Yamaziko's card again.

Yamaziko's ability does not give Misaki Fast. Yamaziko's ability changes Misaki's Reckless to Fast.

If the Reckless has already been used, it is spent...there is nothing there to change into Fast.

Checked both the card and the book - nowhere does it say 'changes'. The wording in both is actually that Misaki LOSES reckless and GAINS fast. Now, if Misaki has used reckless already to get fast and cancel out a slow, she does not have fast. She moves within 6 inches of Yamaziko and loses reckless. This does not bother her as she has already used it. She then gains fast - and at the time she gains it she is not affected by fast -so she is fast.

As I understand it she is losing an ability and gaining a new one. Not replacing or changing an ability.

If she had fast from reckless and was not slow to start with then she would lose reckless and gain fast. But since fast doesn't stack then she would not benefit.

edit - This is different to Ototo's card which states thatwhen he is reduced to half wounds he REPLACES melee expert with melee master.

As I stated above when 'I_was_like_you' raised the same question, in this situation she would be using her Reckless twice. So, no...she shouldn't be able to do this.

try a wire brush -the sort you use for cleaning bbq grills

Page 45 of the rules manuals specifically states that in this situation when the red joker is flipped then the black, the black joker inflicts no additional damage but does not negate the red joker damage.

So you are correct and opponent is wrong

Edit -beaten to it by Ratty.

Hi Dafruk - The strings are hair/whiskers- donated by one of my cats!

Brilliant job, love the paint work.

What are you going to use for your marionettes? (Oriental themed Collodi crew, love the idea!)

Might use the gremlin style models (bakemono?) and have the undead ashigaru and villagers (with the masks on) as wicked dolls. They would kind of fit the collodi theme of steling people (well ok kids) and making them into the dolls.

Excellent looking work, the purples work really nicely. I like that model together with the other Yurei and Rokan but have never quite taken the plunge into Bushido itself.

Also, that's at least two Collodi's at this tourney and neither of them the official Wyrd model.

He's only in one of my lists:)