Love the Job Vs. Shatter

[Glint-Eye]

This came up the other day in my play group:

An Executioner killed an Ice Gamin.

The Executioner was at full health when this happened, the question was whether "Love the Job" would heal him back up to full after he took the 2 damage from the Gamin's "Shatter 2" or if the Executioner would be at 7 wounds since “Love the Job” would trigger and then “Shatter 2”.

Our thinking was that you still had to calculate the burst from where the Gamin was, so “Shatter 2” would resolve first, you'd then remove the model and trigger “Love the Job” which would heal The Executioner.

For reference:

Shatter 2: p2 Dg 2 when this model is killed.

Love the Job: When an enemy model killed by a

Executioner Claws Strike is removed from play, heal

all wounds on this model.

[Sniddy]

Traditionally if affects happened simultaneously (both trigger on the 'is killed') the active player gets to pick....I.E in this case shatter first then love the job....but that is a good question

[guynamedFleck]

Sort of...

You are correct that the Executioner would heal after the Gamin shatters, but not for the reason of effect order choice.

Rules manual p6. Timing.

The fact that the Gamin died would interrupt the Executioner's strike and trigger "shatter". The gamin would dish out its damage (completely resolving its trigger), before you return to complete the executioners attack. The act of killing and removing from play the gamin would then trigger the "love the job" trigger.

For truly 'simultaneous' effects (terrain, environmental, or encounter effects). Players only get the choice of order among their own models, not between friendly and enemy models.

[dsmiles]

Sort of...

Yeah. But I would think it's because the Love the Job triggers "When an enemy model killed by a Executioner Claws Strike is removed from play..." that's the part I'm seeing as the real reason. Removing a model from play happens after it's killed, which is when the Gamin Shatters. Right?

[Kelle341]

Yeah. But I would think it's because the Love the Job triggers "When an enemy model killed by a Executioner Claws Strikeis removed from play..." that's the part I'm seeing as the real reason. Removing a model from play happens after it's killed, which is when the Gamin Shatters. Right?

thats the way i see it shatter happens befor the model is removed so it would heal the wounds.

[guynamedFleck]

Yeah. But I would think it's because the Love the Job triggers "When an enemy model killed by a Executioner Claws Strikeis removed from play..." that's the part I'm seeing as the real reason. Removing a model from play happens after it's killed, which is when the Gamin Shatters. Right?

In the case of the executioners ability, "...killed by a Executioner Claws Strike is removed from play..." is stated to ensure that the executioner heals when he kills an opponent. He is actually meeting multiple requirements.

Rules Manual p13. Models in Play vs. Out of Play.

Referring to the fact that a model killed, sacrificed, or buried is technically 'removed from play'. This clarifies the trigger in such cases that the enemy model is 'removed from play' vs. 'killed.'

Without the 'killed by executioner claw strike' portion, the trigger would suggest that hitting an opponent with a strike and then burying the opponent with another ability would effectively heal the executioner.

Without the 'removed from play', you could effectively come across a situation where the model was killed but didn't leave the table.

So both portions are needed and neither effects the order of Timing.

You all came to the correct conclusion, just via the wrong path. :hmmmm: