Vorbeck

I tried these with Parker again yesterday and they didn't perform. I don't see why you would take them when you could take convicts. However I then took one with the Viks and I have to say although definitely not worth 9 I can see how they work in a melee focused crew. Combat finesse is really useful when the rest of the crew wants to be engaged. The two I took held their ground well and both got coordinated strike off a couple of times when another member of the crew was engaged with them (Taelor and Bishop). I have used them 3 times with Parker and never got use out of coordinated strike. 

I will have to try them with Misaki but so far I have only played Outcasts in the Beta and not moved on to Thunders yet. It is a shame that they don't seem to work with Parker and I do think they are slightly too expensive into the Viks although I can see situations when I would take them (Against other melee focused crews). 

Their ability to move scheme markers in a crew that isn't spamming them is again useful although due to the required suite not very reliable. I do think when you compare them to other 8+ ss models they don't hit as hard but can in right circumstances hold up other crews and I can see why the 6was a bit too much. However I don't know what they need to make them work with Parker. They are a significant investment and unless you know that you are facing a melee crew I can't see them seeing play at the moment in outcasts. 

17 hours ago, Gnomezilla said:

Already is, and the Viks are again one of the reasons. New Whirlwind will, without ten additional flips, apply the same amount of post-armor widespread ping damage to a Hoffball to make it regret half its life—and he does not pulse heal any more, he has to heal one-by-one like every non-gremlin scrub, ping damage is legitimately one of my fears. And then Parker with triggers, and Leveticus being what he is, Tara ‘hope you weren’t planning to cast fast’...and on top of that Hoffman vs. Von Schill was our particular teeth-grinding ‘let us never play that again’ blue-collar-TV-personalities-shouting-at-each-other-meme games...no, I won’t play Hoffman into Outcasts.

I found the Viks quite weak against Hoffman so much so that I wouldn't play them into guild (My main opponents main master is hoffman so this might cloud my judgement). Lots of small damage doesn't really help especially when they go down easy themselves or at least one of them does. I agree though on the whole Hoffman is weak to Outcasts I have smashed him with both Parker and particularly Von Schill.

14 minutes ago, retnab said:

1000% no. The very last thing they need is for their 12 attacks in a row to be MORE reliable. It's bad enough their Master-to-Master Accomplice is still around...

I don't think that easy access to coordinated strike is what they need either. I would also like to know if you have either played as them or against them yet as I ahven't found them strong enough for that to be a problem. In my experience you normally get one activation of both if you go after a high value target and then one of them dies. If you have taken a large amount of stones you migth be able to keep them around for another round but I haven't found this so far. If you are going against models on the outside fo the crew where an easy counter attack isn't always possible then they tend to  stick around and slowly work their way through the smaller models in the opposing crew. If the opponent gives them easy access to a good target then you should take it but only if you cna more or less ensure they survive (obviously this depends on the situation).

Also it is almost impossible to get 12 attacks in a row off successfully unless you have a hand of 13s and flip really high at the same time as stoning. Don't get me wrong you can realibly get 8 or 9 off (not necessarily hit with all of them) which is still incredibly strong. I have found that my opponent knows that they are coming and brings modesl that only take 1 damage from their attacks (Armour 2 models). At least they have the mobility to either avoid those models or eventually get round them.

1 hour ago, Flippin' Wyrd Jamie said:

It doesn't need to be used regularly. It needs one epic turn where you do so much damage that the opponent can't come back from it. Feels similar to whirlwind and we all know how much everyone loved that 🤨 haha

As I have said previously I don’t think the Viks are in a bad place just different. I don’t want them to be back wiping a crew out in a turn. That’s not fun for anyone. 

I also don’t think coordinated assault is anywhere near that powerful. It is good but very resource intense. Also without any anti armour ability they do struggle to put out damage on certain targets  

I played a game on Tuesday where my opponent tired to tie up one of the Viks with Arik and although they bounce off armour 2 being able to push away while engaged meant I could go after the softer targets. They are quick and have to be very selective with what they go after. I know I can normally out position my opponent and take out often key easier to kill models.

I agree it isn’t there strongest ability but it has been situationally useful. I have used it to get either of them out of engagement with a model they don’t want to be engaged with. 

It is also useful to have them both engaging the same model for the purposes of coordinated attack. However this is obviously stone intensive and only worth it against key targets. 

Just the movement aspect alone is worth using though. I still think coordinated assault is far to stone intensive to use regularly. Also if you are going after tough targets won’t do much anyway. 

I have found the Viks with soldiers for hire works well. Gives them hard to kill and get stones back when they remove scheme markers. I know that seems a waste but they get a 2” push during the start phase and can place into base contact with the other Vik giving them great mobility and 3 ap. if the opponent go after them they have hard to kill and decent access to healing. 

I agre with servants on schill and I like wanted Criminal on convicts. Getting access to focus really helps them as often first turn they are just walking. Also card draw is never bad. 

5 minutes ago, Zebo said:

Sincerely, they were the most powerful/damaging models in M2E in exchange to being really squishy. Now they are harder to take down, and possibly more mobile, but they no longer bring horror to their foe's hearts. 

I would prefer see them with Quick Reflexes instead Whirlwind, and with an in-built , so they always may choose between Coordinated Attack and Quick Reflexes. Also the Enchanted Katana should be again Masamune Nihonto, and should at least ignore armor. 

Then, East and West should return to add to damage, so the Viks can stay togheger and be more tough and focused on killing a single target, or risk to divide and be really dangerous versus more models, but more easily killable. 

Lastly, Dragon's bite should be a place instead of a push. 

Or maybe they're right as they are. And all this would be harmful for the game. 

I think it is difficult they seem to have been designed to fast and squishy and hit reasonably hard but not hard enough to worry tough crews or crews that hit hard back. As I said before I think they are designed to go after lesser models and that’s how I use them. The first game I played of the beta I used them as they are used in m2e and they died and did nothing (bounced off of Parker and were then blown to pieces). I also hadn’t taken then full amount of stones and to be honest I thought that’s it they are ruined but tried them a couple more times and only went after models I could easily kill and run schemes with them. This has worked a lot more although I don’t really like playing them at the moment but that’s more to do with how I play than them. 

I think your changes would put them back to where they were in m2e but that might be a bit too much. I agree about the ignore amour or possible give them an action that lets all Victoria chambers ignore reduction until the end of the turn. This way they sacrifice an ap to help with reduction. This makes it more of a cost to do and might be fairer. I think that making dragons bite a place might be a bit strong I agree it is limited as it is but situationally useful which is fine. Being able to place with such mobile models may be too strong. I might try it and see but suspect that is the case. 

As I said before they don’t play like the Viks at the moment but I know that they were a bit ridiculous in m2e at times and they probably hit too hard then. I guess they have just been moved in a different direction to avoid being able to annihilate a crew in a turn. They can still hit hard however I have noticed that every time I declare Viks my opponent instantly puts in a couple of models with armour. This then makes me take a couple of ronin who can’t really deal with the armour on their own. I then normally run away from my opponent  most of the game while holding them up with a key model or two and hope I have out scored them. As I said not my play style but not sure that their bad, they aren’t top end and really struggle if an opponent can limit their mobility ( I got destroyed against raspy) or brings lots of armour (I think Hoffmann is a very strong against them at the moment).  However I think a lot of masters can be countered this edition I made the mistake of taking Kaeris into Sonia the other day and currently I don’t see how she can win that matchup. Not sure how this will work out on the competitive scence yet with declaring masters in advance but I suspect it will lead to a few generalist masters being strong again and some other masters being brought in as a second master in some lists. Again not sure this is a bad thing as the crew building stage is a lot more important this time around. 

I had another game with them yesterday and I still feel they are great scheme runners and great at killing cheap stuff just avoid anything else with them. This seems strange when they used to be feared so much but against most melee masters they get eaten alive. They haven’t got the damage or defence for that role however they do have the speed to get away. 

I don’t think they are bad just not very fluffy anymore which is a shame. I do think they could do with some form of anti armour because only having ronin sucks. Robin again are great scheme runners but don’t have the offence capability to taken on tough crews on their own. Other than that as I said I think they are in a decent place. I have preferred Parker so far in my games which is odd as I pretty much only played the Viks in m2e. 

I agree that they were already underwhelming with outcasts. I used them before the change a few times with parker and they didn’t really fit with his crew and I always preferred convicts. I can see how they would have been much stronger with misaki. 

Sounds like I need to give her another go then. Both games I have used her in she didn't really do anything but I can potentially see if she is left alone she could help both Viks. I did find that when my opponents wanted her dead she fell over very quickly. I will try her again though although I do like the utility the emissary offers and I don't think I can justify both in a crew but will try and see. 

I feel that Ronin are good versus armour and are good scheme runners although not really good all round models when compared with comparable models in faction (Scavengers, engineers etc). I think the Viks play a very specific way this edition even more so than last. I think they only issue I see them having is that there crew (Mercenaries) are all very similar (scheme runners that can hit reasonably hard but easy to kill) but this seems to be the same for lots of the crews this time around.

There is nothing to stop you hiring outside of their keyword. I used Arik last game to give me a bit of resilience. Barbaros also looks good although I am yet to try him out. 

I agree about Vanessa for 8 stones she doesn't do enough. She is not tough does very little damage unless you get her on the centre line (and even then not great). Obviously her heal is good but so far I prefer to pay 2 stones more and take the emissary which gives you better support options and a better heal (also a ranged attack with a built-in slow trigger). As I said before though I need to play more games as I have so far only played a handful and only 3 with the Viks.

From what I have found so far the Viks crew aren't really deadly but are incredibly quick and one of the best scheme running crews at the moment. I need to play them more before I form a really solid view of them this edition but I have found they don't do anything to a crew with armour or a crew with stones. However if you use them and the rest of the their crew to go after the opponents smaller models they can really disrupt their plans. 

If you avoid the opponents big hitters then I have found them to be very effective. If you face an elite crew with them you are probably going to have problems unless you just run a way from the other crew (by using models strategically to hold up key models). I realise that this is a major departure from what they were last edition but that doesn't mean they are bad just different. Yes the Viks can't go in a delete a crew in a couple of turns but that wasn't fun for the opponents before (this only worked against people who hadn't played against the Viks) and the way they play now is still very good and as I said above almost any minion they still remove easily.

Regarding Taelor I believe she is slightly fragile but she does hit hard and is still very mobile and consistent thanks to shrug off. I don't think is over costed and seems about right at the moment but is better as a second wave rather than focal point of the attack. 

Thomas Nickerson can also make it

I will be there put me down (Tony Fenton)

I always take the emissary and Bettari in addition to Yas and summon in whatever else I need. Bettari shutting off triggers for herself and Yas has won me a lot of games.

I would be very interested in attending this however I can't make the first one. Let me know if you do run another event. Also if any one fancies a game at wayland anytime just let me know.

Hi David,

Please could you add myself (Tony Fenton) and Thomas Nickerson to the waiting list.

I am hoping to come but in the process of moving at the moment. If everything has gone through and we are moved by then will be able to come. 

Troy what’s the lastest point I can sign up. I might not know until the week before. 

Is there still space for if so please can I be added to the list. Tony Fenton 

Is there still space for if so please can I be added to the list. Tony Fenton 

Hi If you are still looking for an opponent I am normally free Thursday evenings. I haven't played vassel before but I have played a fair bit of Malifaux. I have attended a few tournaments and normally play once a week anyway. 

I am free GMT 6pm to 10pm on Thursday's if you are still interested. 

If you have Viks, bishop, ashes and Malifaux child you have enough stones left to have up to 8 activations in total if you take some smaller models like the effigy, void wretches even ronin.

If you want you can get another big hitter in there but then you will almost certainly be stuck with 7 activations rather than 8. 

I agree the viks are upgrade intense and I normally run them with 7 points of upgrades which and at least 4 stones which means blood could be said to have cost 10.

The last game I played with the viks I played them with child, effigy, bishop, strongarm and desolation engine. Strat was stake a claim but with close deployment. I can't remember all the scheme pool but I took quick murder and leave your mark. Idea was to get into the enemy crew quickly and take them out before they could start accomplishing schemes. I still had 7 activations which is low but I didn't find it handicapped me too much. I won the game 7-2 by denying them the chance to score points more than going after my points. 

I use him almost every game with the Viks. I often run the viks, bishop and another big hitter like Ashes in which case bishop is the lowest threat of the four of them and really shines. When people leave him alone he can go through a crew or get you any scheme or strat that you need.

Due to his defensive trigger it is very difficult for minions to easily take him out without suffering damage due to df 6. 

I will be playing outcasts 

Also paid for my friend Thomas