Bodiless

I realize this model isn't even out yet, but I would love a cat-themed Benny Wolcomb. Maybe do the usual gender swap and have Betty Wolcomb?

Titania can protect him from being targeted, give access to extra healing and movement, bring targets into Flurry range, and can trigger Smell Fear by forcing a large number of Wp checks. 

On 9/17/2016 at 3:28 PM, Breng77 said:

 Have rarely seen the cherub taken over the primordial magic.  But it is true for the others though in those cases you are almost forced to take their specific totems.  It is about the only Saving grace in neverborn if the primordial magic was in another faction you would see it even more.  

There are definitely pools where I would take Cherub over Primordial. I like Cherub in Squatters, for example. I'll often have Cherub following Nekima down a flank to pick up the markers there as a zero, letting her spend all of her AP murdering whatever my opponent sent to get that marker. Plus handing out slow to further hamper their efforts. 

Edit: This is getting a bit far afield from Titania though, so suffice to say that while there are plenty of masters where I do regularly take the specific totem rather than Primordial I don't think Titania will turn out to be one.

33 minutes ago, Joel said:

while this WAS true, under gaining grounds 2016 things are less clear cut.  Other totems have more of a role and eclipse the puke worm in many scheme pool/strat mixes.

If Pmagic is just a rush of magic and and activation, its not doing enough.  Its ability to count as a scheme marker takes a real dent when scheme markers need to be in place every turn to score big.

Joel

I find that I actually get a fair amount of use out of Nullify when I see models start wandering onto my side of the board. If nothing else my opponent's response to having something Nullified tells me a fair amount about what they are trying to accomplish. 

43 minutes ago, Breng77 said:

The Gorar seems to suffer the same problem as many other neverborn totems.  It isn't the primordial magic.  Primordial magic is so good for just one stone cheaper that it seems like taking the Gorar is purposefully playing with a handicap.  

That's pretty much what I was going to say. For a real cost of +1ss and the opportunity cost of not having the PM... I just don't see it.

Casey is hella-good. No shame there.

I used it once and put it away. You are probably bringing back a 7ss minion, so you are looking at a net of 4ss. Sort of, since it dictates the positioning of the model coming back and it comes back slow and counts as an entirely new model (so not eligible for Public Demonstration and the like). That's if you manage to make it work at all and it doesn't just die from loitering around the board center. Very hard for me to see taking it over Primordial. 

Got another game in with Titania last night, this time against Parker. Unlike previous games I took no other models from her crew box. Strategy was Guard the Stash, and I took Nekima, Doppelganger, Tuco, Primoridial, and two Waldgeists. The crew worked surprisingly well. The Waldgeists camped one objective, Tuco lurked behind some terrain dropping Leave Your Mark, and the other three swung around the other stash marker. Titania had Aether Connection, Audience, and Behold My Glory, a full cache, and had a rockstar game. Turn 1 Mad Dog strayed a little too close (my opponent didn't really realize what Audience did) and got dropped into base to base and then charged by Nekima. Dead dog. Turn 2 she activated first, tagged Parker with Behold, moved around behind the stash marker, then pulled in a dead outlaw. Parker took a couple of shots at Nekima, who was out in the open after killing Mad Dog, but could only afford two shots at her due to Glory and I stoned most of the damage away. In the meantime the rest of his crew was not set up to deal with armor and spent a ton of AP slowly chipping away at the Waldgeists.

Titania + Nekima is a very potent combination. Titania can bring targets in for her to hit without Nekima moving to a vulnerable position, and can really mitigate the damage she takes back. It was a very tanky crew in general, and hugely tanky for Neverborn. I also had good cards and awesome damage prevention flips, so you can only take so much away from one game. But in my previous games I felt like I really wasn't sure what I was trying to accomplish with Titania when she activated, and that her activations did not really strike the same level of fear into my opponent as other Neverborn masters. That was definitely not the case last night - the threat of dropping his models in front of Nekima turned large swaths of the board into a no-go zone. I also got some key use out of her zero to push a model when I needed to shuffle a model 2" to get it into scoring range. All in all a very solid outing for her against a very good opponent. 

Are Wave 4 models legal for this?

Since you have the starter models I would drop Barbaros for two Bloodwretches here. Wretches hit reasonably hard, and would get you up to 8 models which will help with activation control. 

Also, just as an FYI to you and the OP, I think beater Lilith is probably her least effective incarnation. I get a lot more use out of Traffic Cop Lilith, where I park her somewhere close to the center of the board behind her trees and have her decide who gets to move and where they go. I very rarely use Tangle Shadows against opposing models, unless I have a really high mask in hand and I see something exposed that I can grab. Usually I use Tangle to cycle beaters onto a target or sacrifice a tot to get one of my key pieces out of a bad spot.

Titania can fly. Shouldn't that have prevented the falling damage?

What crews and combos have worked out well for you so far?

I do really like Audience on paper, although I didn't use it in my one game. I'm glad to hear you seem to be having success with Titania - I really want her to be good.

I think Taproot will prove to be a very powerful upgrade. It didn't really show to its full effect in my game against Reva because Reva could choose to target Wp and avoid the built-in trigger on Df for the Knights. 

I think her upgrade that makes you attack her or dump two cards is critical to making people deal with her. Especially in you can combo in Wrath or another model that punishes you for not attacking it. And to be fair with two markers near the target to discard she has min damage 4 on her cast.

I don't see the connection to Ressers either, particularly given the lack of any kind of summoning, but I don't play Ressers so I'm interested in hearing the argument for it. 

That's about what I thought on the beta, but figured it couldn't hurt to ask.

Your comment is not a playtester perspective, but is a very different perspective at least. What about her makes you think she is 'vastly stronger than she should be'? 

I would very interested in hearing from anyone who used her during the beta as to how it was imagined that she would play. I'm not sure what the terms of the NDA were, so there might not be anything that can be shared. But so far from the very limited table experience the general community has it seems like she is interesting on paper but doesn't quite work in practice. 

3 minutes ago, Bengt said:

Isn't the 3" target thing once per game?

It is, but he picked the correct turn to use it. The following turn Claw and Thorn were tied up with Reva, Tooth had died and been reincarnated away from the main fight, etc.

7 hours ago, -Loki- said:

I... said that? I said there's no Titania conflux, but she can take the Emmisary with the base conflux which is still nice. Just as his opponentl likely did using the Carrior Emmisary with Reva.

He actually used My Little Helper on the Emissary, which is pretty impressive upgrade. Enemy models can't target it unless they are within 3", which pretty much squashed my plan to use the various challenges on the knights to drag it in and murder it. 

21 minutes ago, -Loki- said:

The Emmisary seems like it would have been a nice addition to that crew in that matchup. Its ranged ability that eats corpse markers around the target would stop Reva attacking through them. Doesn't have Titania conflux yet, but the base conflux is still nice.

Unfortunately most of the corpse markers were mixed in with my crew and all of the scheme markers I was putting down. So the Emissary would have basically reset both crews to zero in terms of their resource, since it pulses away corpse, scrap, and scheme markers. I could definitely see taking the Emissary if I thought I was going up against Reva and using a different crew.... but honestly most of the time if I am going up against Ressers I expect to see Kirai or Molly who don't really care about corpse markers. 

29 minutes ago, MetaphoricDragn said:

Did you take Forest Claims All?  Seems like it would be quite useful vs Reva and corpse marker shenanigans.

I do agree that playing all 3 knights together seems unlikely in the long run.  I still think they will find their spot somewhere though.

Tanky Titania is definitely what I want to explore, perhaps her, Barbaros, and 2 Sorrows to start.

I did take Forest. And it stopped some markers, but again my opponent could decide if he needed that marker enough to warrant spending the card. And the aura is only 4" so sometimes he could place the marker in a position to avoid it. Not to mention just killing my guys.

Got my first game in with Titania last night, running her crew straight out of the box plus Graves and the Effigy. Played against Reva, who was pretty much using her box set plus the Emissary, Effigy, and a Crooligan. Some thoughts follow.

Titania: To be honest I was a little underwhelmed. There were indeed a ton of scheme markers down, but Titania herself didn't actually accomplish all that much. Admittedly there was a lot of user error involved, but after the game we were brainstorming a bit and trying to think what Titania really did that other masters couldn't do and probably do better. 12W and impossible to wound is nice, but high min damage is a real thing and she eventually got focused down. The problem with her pulse to put down markers and aura to cause damage is they are both simple duels, and your opponent has a lot of flexibility in choosing which ones they really care about. Her damage output was not very high, even with plenty of markers down. Right now my best idea to get the most use out of her is still to have her be a tank and take the upgrade that makes people attack her or discard, but also give her Aether Connection and a full cache and keep her close to something that can drop a lot of markers to heal her up (like Aeslin).

Aeslin: I was pleasantly surprised by Aeslin. Her 6" aura of negative flips on enemy cast actions was a huge thorn in my opponent's side. I really missed having the Doppelganger in this crew, as against many opponents I would want to cheat initiative and have her activate first to get that bubble up. I also used her to carry Taproot, which I think against anyone other than Reva would have been a great defensive option. Unfortunately there were enough corpse markers down that it was hard to push somewhere that she couldn't attack. 

Knights: They weren't terrible, but for minions that are competing in that 7ss slot with Illuminated and various enforcers I don't know that they really made their case. I certainly wouldn't take all 3 again. 

Gorar: I did end up using its ability to summon Thorn back after Reva killed her, but the fact that the model dies and is summoned back with Slow is a huge limitation. Seems unlikely I will take it over the Primordial in the future. 

Overall: She was fun to play and very different, but at the moment I can't see her moving into what I see as our upper echelon of Dreamer/Lilith/Collodi. 

Graves is also a great model to carry Retribution's Eye. Ml 6, min damage 3, ignores armor. He is also a Mimic, so if you have Doppel with Useless Duplications he can benefit from that. Or you can swap the upgrades between the models, both builds work pretty well in my experience.

On 8/20/2016 at 1:29 PM, MetaphoricDragn said:

I've been pondering about Envy too.  But a lot of the scheme marker drops happen while in combat.  I'd be worried about Envy shooting into that combat.

Valid point. I'm also worried that since it will be a pretty small crew if you run the box + Envy that people will be able to get into him and jam. I'm getting my first game with Titania tonight and am running the full box crew to see how they play, plus Graves. Maybe an Insidious as well if I trim back the upgrades. Unlikely to be the best way to run her but I want to see everything on the table before I start deciding what to leave out.

I really want to use them, but I also really like my current Fated build and am not sure what I would replace to get them in. I use two stitched in general, might try 1 stitched and 1 bunraku instead. Stitched are such vicious little menaces though...