FertileSpade

that's a nasty trick: uncontrolled detonation. who flips the cards for his Df duel and can it be cheated by the Ramos player?

that was my initial thought: use Raspy to ranged attack the Stitched along with 2 December Acolytes' harpoon guns. However Raspy doesn't have the luxury of ignoring cover like Creepy Fog and by the end of turn 1 she had given a stitched the reactivate condition which it used in conjunction with pushes to get within 6" of an Acolyte and kill it like it was nothing. Oh and the Marionettes healed it so it was ready to do hard to kill/reactivate again in turn 2. Also, if Raspy's ice mirrors are engaged then she can't use them - a huge difference between her ability and the stitched which don't care about cover or engagement. It was an extremely frustrating game that really made me question this game's balance which before i had thought was very good. I am appreciative of evryone's help however, and would appreciate more.

i understand all of that. I think the Ramos crew would stack up well in most Neverborn matchups. What do you think about other matchups in Neverborn? It should perform well in most schemes and strats. The summoning mechanic is incredibly powerful in a game so dependent upon AP resource management.

The list is intended as a thought exercise in determining how to counter an incredibly powerful synergy outside of other game factors due to the fact that if half my crew is dead by the end of turn 2 scoring enough VP's to win will become an exercise in futility. 

If the Stitched were slow moving (normal Wk 4) than it would be easy enough to avoid them but they're not by a long shot! Anyway, the strat was Turf War so avoiding conflict in the center wasn't an option! The amount of AP the Collodi crew generated for a deadly model (the Stitched) was CRAZY and as I've said all the weaknesses of the Stitched are mitigated extremely well!

maybe drop the arachnids for Howard? my only concern is allowing him to control activations early in the game. I went with a low model count in the Raspy crew for our first game and he was able to out position and maneuver me as a result.

I got worked over hard in a game against Collodi yesterday in which the Stitched were getting pushed by Marionettes (negating their slow Wk), activating, reactivating when i couldn't finish them off, healed by Wicked Dolls (negating their low Df and setting them up for a reactivation in the next game turn), and obeyed by Vasilisa as well as Collodi (with + flips reducing the odds to their favor) to Gamble Your Life again and again and again and again!! REALLY WYRD?! REALLY?! 6 pt models whose every weakness is negated by Collodi. That was fun!! 

After the urge to rage quit had passed, I began thinking of a possible counter to their ridiculous synergy. What I came up with is 

Ramos w/ Field Generator

Joss w/ Open Current

2 Gunsmiths

Johanna w/ Bleeding Edge Tech

Metal Gamin

3 Steam Arachnids

The idea is that Ramos will be able to summon and eventually win the AP contest. 3 killy models that can ignore Hard to Kill, Johanna's M&SU buffs (and Condition removal if Vasilisa gets cute) as well as Ramos' and Joss' upgrades to buff my crew while debuffing his. Interested in your thoughts and suggestions.

BTW tried Rasputina with December's Pawn card fishing tactic in my first game against Collodi = Complete waste of SS!

good points on imbued protection. my Rail Golem did die to a convict gunslinger in the game i ran it with Kaeris so i'll give the imbued energies a try at some point. there is the option to discard imbued protection to prevent damage as well as the +1 Df. that in combination with some healing from Kaeris could make it more survivable. my basic reasoning was that the points cost just to run the model bare bones was significant enough to make it worthwhile investing another 2 SS to try and make it more survivable. all in all Rail Golem really is a feast or famine model.

Another good model to add soon is Johan for condition removal. It will be critical in some matchups that you have it. I've played Rail Golem in the one game I have with Kaeris so far. Very easy to stack burning conditions on it for locomotion but to get use out of it requires very good application. Put Imbued Protection on it if you do run it.

the wards available between her and the Oxford Mages seem to be very good. My biggest concern with her would be a fairly open table and looking down the barrels of Perdita and her family's Peacebringers. Seems like you would have a very difficult time building adrenaline in certain matchups and strats. I just bought the box set  so don't have any experience with her yet but looking to change that soon.

that's probably what I'm most inclined to do with the raptor in the future for a Marcus crew- turn models into beasts. IMO I wasn't impressed with Killjoy's output compared to cost and angyi is probably right that in a recon strat the points could be better spent elsewhere. I'm sure there are things I could have done better but overall I feel like the Killjoy/Raptor combo is kind of gimmicky and easily avoided. Also, Killjoy dies way too easily for a 13ss model as long as your opponent knows to finish him off in one turn.

I tried the Raptor/Killjoy trick and my opponent saw it coming a mile away. I was running a Marcus beast list so had no way to shoot the raptor myself. My opponent was running Zorieda and simply repulsed and obeyed the raptor. In addition the strat was recon so the raptor being a peon didn't help achieve VP's. I ended up bringing Killjoy in when I sacrificed Myranda and brought in a Slate Ridge Mauler as well.

I still see potential for the raptor and plan on trying the tricks with Collette and Kaeris next. 

another thing i thought of is the performers' manipulative 13 can work well with Howard's decapitate to drain cards from your opponent's hand.

Johan has fantastic synergy with the Ramos box. I would definitely recommend him as well. Mythic Fox is spot on about metal gamin as well. It is another key model for Ramos' crew and the Mechanical Rider can summon them. I really enjoy Rasputina but would have to agree Colette should be the next box set you get from a competitive viewpoint. We're still waiting on a couple key models to be released for the Children of December  (Blessed of December, Snowstorm, Silent Ones, and I can't wait for the Ice Dancer). Coryphee should be on your short list of models to add and can work with Ramos as well as Colette due to the construct designator.

under my thread Malefaux Raptors? a couple people suggested using raptors to unbury Killjoy in your opponent's hindquarters. Seemed very strong, so Killjoy. I could also see taking Bishop for his paralyze against Masters like Leveticus where trying to kill them is a waste of AP. Silurids, Waldgeists, Dawn Serpent, Freikorps Librarian - healing, Freikorps Specialist - scheme marker removal, Canine Remains.

sweet! several good ideas, thanks much!

Curious how everyone uses Raptors? I understand the broad strategic use to harry your opponents' backfield models that they would prefer to operate unmolested, but I'm interested in specifics: tips/tricks, tactics etc..

I still have to attach the knives onto the one mannequin model. Yay, looking forward to that! I will say however, that I'm getting better at working with these tiny pieces. I guess I should say thanks Wyrd for forcing me to improve my modelling skills?. 

i looked closely at mine: one has slightly darker print. the art work is clear and appears the same on both. both are clear and legible.

hmm, interesting. i'll have to look at my cards closer when i get home. i'll let you know if i see a difference.

looks like the f of Df wasn't very clear in the unboxing pic. what else do you see that doesn't look as good as you would like? grainy artwork?

sorry to hear it. i've got both cards and they're fine.

wow, i need some sleep! thinking of adding Angelica not Cassandra.

I'm thinking of adding Cassandra now. The discard or paralyze could help with hand control or board control.

in a game the other day Miss Step finally caught up to my Mech Rider turn 5. Didn't have a chance of hurting the rider and I returned the favor by using Arcane Ritual to drop 2 scheme markers which ensured 3 VP's for me, So yeah it's THAT good!

I was running it in a Ramos crew and summoned spiders with it, but having looked at some of the above posts and considered my game I might have been better off summoning metal gamin.

I chose Smoke and Mirrors as my starting arsenal for the Nythera event. I don't know if its super competitive but it's what I want to run. My plan is to play keep away - as in keep away from my opponents' beaters while dropping a metric ton of scheme markers. It should work well for some strat and scheme pools but in others I'll struggle. I'll also have more AP than a beater heavy list. If going against a summoner Cassie is fast enough to get straight in their face. From this starting arsenal I'm thinking of adding a gunsmith next or maybe the Captain.

Cassandra w/ Smoke and Mirrors

2 Performers

2 Mannequins

1 Coryphee

1 Scrip leftover

lots of pushes to get out of engagement then ignore them.