Mikey_C

I agree that the second caveat is unnecessary.
You would still never see them outside of VonSchill crews. 

I'm not sure what else offers such a potent threat at 15" for the cost of a single high card. I'm a fan. 

My base list for Tara is almost always

Tara 
Karina
Nothing Beast
2x Void Wretch
(^all from her crew box)

Scion of the void
(^solo box)

2x Death Marshals
(^box of 3 or in the Lady Justice Crew box)

Then you need some sommons, which all come in boxes of 3 but you really only need 1 or 2.
Guild autopsy (This is one case where I would get all 3), Drowned, Punk Zombie (if you get these you might as well get the Nicodem box which will give you some variety in masters as well, though Nico is likely the least budgetable Res master).

You can play this list as both Res or Outcast. Take this with a grain of salt though because my Tara list and play style seem to be very unpopular.

I'm also in the camp that hiring a hanged is good, at least in pools with kill based schemes. They also work well with Sinister Reputation Seamus essentially making them Ca 8.  
I still like a single Nurse for 6ss. They give you a lot of options both against friendly and enemy models and also pairs well with Sinister Rep Seamus.  

I am surprised Friekorpsmen were not affected. I used to take them often but now I think they are quite behind the curve for a 5ss model.

Looks like Bishop's sister carries a big gun and works for the guild.

8 minutes ago, thatlatinspeakingguy said:

Ligeia needs Accomplice or being less expensive...

My opponents would argue strongly against this. Everyone I play against hates Ligeia. 

14 hours ago, CapnBloodbeard said:

Looking at the way he's described, I almost wonder if there should be something along the lines "If a model receives burning from this attack, models within 2" also receive burning+1.  Models within 2" of those models also receive burning+1" - follows through on what you imagine the impact of a flamethrower to be.

Just add a single blast to his weak damage and you would get a similar result.

MY point isn't that Rasputina needs line of sight to where the models is placed, but that the model placed needs line of sight to Rasputina. That is how the rule is worded. 

In the case of Ice mirror line of sight isn't necesarily shared like in normal circumstance. I'm just reading the rule exactly as written, I'm not looking for intent. As far as I can see, rule as written, you can not use ice mirror to summon unless the summoned model is placed in such a way that it can see Raspy. 

"If summoning is the result of an Action, the summoned model must be placed
within LoS to the acting model."

Pg 60. free online rules. (emphasis mine).

Strictly by this wording the summoned model must have LOS to the acting model. Since the summoned model can't draw LoS through a frozen heart I would say it does not work.
 

If the rulebook said "Within LoS OF the acting model" I would argue Ice mirror would work.  My 2 cents anyway.

Von Schill, Oath of the Friekorps and whatever 2 upgrade fit the schemes

2 of these models: Strongarm, Anna, Specialist, Hanna (preference for strongarm, Anna/Hanna can take I pay Better)

trapper

Librarian

2x friekorpsmen (can sub these for a 2nd trapper and hodgepodge effigy). 

Steam Trunk. 

Schill plays as support until the time is right for him to jump in. 

I find Friekorps model in general stick around longer than the enemy models and it soon starts to be pretty even. I also don't see 10 model crews around here, to be honest that just sounds like trapper fodder.  

12 minutes ago, Davos said:

MY complaint with Oath is that you need a lot of Freikorps to make it worthwhile, but also you're trading a master's AP for a lower model. 

I'd trade as many of Shill's Ap as I could into the Strongarm. Anna is also an amazing model for oath.

Then again, I think the specialist is good too, Oath plus I pay better gives him 2 focused shots, and Anna is great for bouncing models out of combat with him. 
I think all friekorps crews are totally viable, especially against Neverborn.

4 hours ago, CapnBloodbeard said:

Now, just wondering - can anybody think of other Outcast models with pushes or places that would work well to move enemy models into Schill's range?

In faction, Taelor, Johan, Montressor, Big Jake, Prospector (I think).

Mercs that come to mind Anna, Burt, Performer.

(not a complete list)

Of note Monty and Big Jake would mean you'd have to shoot into a melee. 

48 minutes ago, Davos said:

After looking through all of this, I think Nimble, Df +1, and Reference the Field Guide are probably the best combo to buff him into 8SS status.  

I find VS's Oath of the Freikorps isn't that useful, outside a full thematic Freikorps list, which generally isn't strong.   Aftermath is a more useful upgrae I've found and for the most part, you don't want to run a full Freikorps crew.  At most, you're running 3 i find (trapper, libraian, and then eiher Hannah/Anna/Suit and MAYBE a freikorpsmann instead of a trapper.maybe)

I run a full Friekorps list and think it is amazing. Giving the strong arm, Anna Lovelace, a Librian or a trapper fast every turn is amazing. And Any turn they don't need fast VonSchill can spring into action. 

Jack plays well into head hunter with all of the pushes you can get in his crew.

Tara plays well into interference as she herself can redeploy into her deployment zone and also just has a lot of movement options. Also a timely bury can really swing a table quarter.

Von Schill does well with guard the stash because he can keep an entire friekorp crew in his bubble, doesn’t have to worry about blasts or pulses so they can bunch up and brings a lot of healing.

I think he’s pretty close to 8 as as is. I’d be super happy with him at 7ss. So I don’t think he needs much to make him worth 8. Def 4 seems like something he wouldn’t have if he were a wave 3 or newer model. 

With Schill’s new upgrade you can make him fast every turn, and that is makes him a huge threat again IMO. 

Def 5 with shooting expert or nimble easily makes him worth 8, and even better than 8 with oath of the friekorp or the free pushes from Jack.

1 minute ago, Nukemouse said:

This is probably a really silly and crazy idea. But what if it required a low unsuited TN, but needed both a corpse and a scrap within say 6 inches? Like on a 6 of any suit summon, but you need one of each marker for it to work? It would make it a rather unique summoning method and wyrd definitely seems to like the idea each master should summon in a different way. Except maybe somer teeth jones, he has both kirai and levi's summoning methods!

I think you would need to get more than 1 abomination from that, since it will be the most difficult summoning set up in the game.

10 minutes ago, SuperFly TNT said:

It's fair to say Levi doesn't do much other than attack and right now Imo not very effectively. I also doubt that a second errata will happen but one can hope. 

 

He survives, redeploys, summons, deals 1/2 damage... You don't think he still has some tricks? He was totally busted pre-errata IMO. 

5 minutes ago, SirRocketPants said:

I've never thought about this.... if you stone for another initiative flip.... does that one also get a + flip?

3 minutes ago, Raimu said:

Why not? It gives + to all initiative flips

It sure does! It means you have close to a 1/3 chance of tying or beating an 11 (I think, been a while since I did the math on that one). 

Don't forget, if you have a list with a lot of void models dependant on a low card count for their defense, you can cheat away bad cards on missed attacks.
For example, you shoot with a death Marshal and miss, it's not worth cheating in one of your good cards, so you can cheat in a 6 or lower just to up the def of your Voidies. 

Also if you are worried about your friendly getting unburied you can instead bury them with a death marshal.

On 9/27/2017 at 7:04 AM, Mrbedlam said:

I mean an enemy sniper will have to do 8 damage to kill a void wretch.

7 Damage will round up to kill a void wretch in 1 shot, but you point is valid, it is difficult to do that amount in 1 ap. 

59 minutes ago, CapnBloodbeard said:

Not a lot of hitting power outside of the Nothing Beast though....

so I take it you're focussing on summoning with Karina?

Scion has a 1/4/7 attack, and another that does as much damage as the enemy has already suffered to a max of 3. 
If the Scion is buried anyone can copy those. Tara herself with 6 attacks is a competent fighter herself and it can force 6 bury tests, which messes with the opponents hand. Death Marshals IMO hit way above their weight class with pine box. Then factor in that the Tara crew will often benefit from fast, while key enemy models will suffer slow. What it lacks in raw  hitting power it makes up for by bury threats and forcing so many simple duels.    

I typically play Karina but spending 2-3 ap total on walking. I get her into cover nearish the center, from there she can shoot, summon or attack buried models.

Her summoning is more reliable than you think, you just have to dedicate any 9+ of  to her, and if when her activation comes up you don't have anything useful to do you can always focus twice and then try to summon a guild autopsy or crooligan. 

I would get
Scion of the Void
Death Marshals
Aionus
Guild Autopsies
and 1 or 2 punk zombies if you can.

MY typical list is
Tara
Karina
Nothing Beast
Scion
2x Death Marshals
2x Void Wretches
It plays well with aggressive burying and taking advantage of a low hand size.

Switch out Nothing Beast and some upgrades for Aionus, and the wretches for Autopsies and you won't have to worry about hand size.

5 minutes ago, Cedar said:

From my experience, 3 Wd really is her problem - models with cast actions just destroy her, same as damage from tactical actions. Models with ranged weapons also have no problem with killing her. Plus she is 4 SS totem that has very poor attack options and her main job is to stand in the middle of enemy crew and disable cheating. She has only 1" with ML 3, so it's hard for her to keep enemies in her aura. I never had any luck with her, but again, my meta is filled with Levi's, Wong's, Sonnia's, and few other masters that can ignore Incorporeal very easy (or use lots of CA actions) so maybe it's difference between metas. Even increasing her WD stat by 1-2 would massively help her in doing her job.

In case of Specialist - He is nice model on paper - ranged attack with blasts that ignore cover. However, to get these blasts, you usually must focus and shoot with second AP, which means that he has to be on the right spot turn before. Of course, masters like Hamelin or Jack have ways of moving him, but still his movement isn't the best, and taking Scramble makes him 10 Soulstone model that doesn't hit very hard. For the same cost, Outcasts can take Lazarus as more reliable model with blast attack. And when Specialist becomes engaged, his only defense is knife with low damage track, so that's why I thought about giving him option for disengaging. 

Lady L's aura is so powerful that it has to have bad match ups. If you balance her so that she works well vs Levy, Sonia and Wong she would be bonkers good. 

Void wretches are also a 4ss incorporeal model, Lady's survivability seems on par to a void wretch.  
The test for me is that, if I could take Lady L with other masters I would take her over most other outcast totems.

1 minute ago, DXXXVIII said:

Lady ligeia with 4 Wd . think 6 might be 2 much.

I've never had issue getting her where I need her. She's def 6 and incorporeal. Just hide her behind a larger base (guilty, jaakuna, Montressor) on her approach and take a defensive stance each turn.  Jack can push her for 3, and Obey her for another walk, and I think she's walk 6? So that is still 12" of movement, and since she's incorporeal your own models don't get in her way.  Once she is where I need her I just spend both ap on defensive +2, her whole schtick is the no cheat aura so there really isn't anything you need her to do except survive and be annoying.