Mikey_C

13 minutes ago, solkan said:

Did the Nightmare edition in M2E have different artwork than the regular cards for that box?

I'm just asking because I had been under the impression that the main difference was that the Nothing Beast was a lot bigger, unlike the more radical changes in the other nightmare boxes.

The Nothing Beast in particular had much better art IMO. Like Da Git said Tara and Karina had different art as well, but it's really just the Nothing beast I'm personally after.

 

Will there be Nightmare edition Tara cards?

Currently aren't any in the Outcast special edition cards.

I would move scramble to the Scion, and make sure you put Void Shield on the Nothing Beast since it is 1) amazing, and 2) free.

Survivalist on Tara may not do too much, because Out of Time is likely going to be your only source of healing and does so without a flip.

In general I've had very good results playing a Von Schill Freikorp crew into Neverborn. 
On the flip side a Tara in theme crew struggles when a doppleganger is on the otherside of the table.

The artwork itself is good, the art direction is.... interesting. 

I think this will be a very polarized preview. 

8 minutes ago, wafew said:

I think the whole quote about a whole world apart, and not pluto but Jupiter, as well as "the whole hand" are exaggerations.

I think that is just someone having fun with word play, but I agree. If we were to play Marry, F***, Kill with the trapper, engineer and korpsman, I think the korpsman is getting killed everytime.

11 minutes ago, wafew said:

It should be better, it's more expensive. Not caring about melee doesn't mean melee isn't an important thing, sometimes you can't push far away enough, and you may have times when the only targets would cause randomization and possibly hit your own models. Some models are really good at not getting shot. hit min and average are better, but severe is the same, and FM has better potential at max damage.get the +2df trigger, and sit there. on paper that sounds good to me, still need to try it.

I can't recall a time that a trapper was totally unable to push out of melee. It may have happened, but it certainly didn't leave any sort of lasting impression on me that it is something I need to look out for. The FM being bad at melee has so seldom been an issue, off hand I can only every recall that one game I had him charge for some reason and I can't remember why, but largely it hasn't been an issue in the slightest.  There have been times it fired into melee and randomized, but that + flip is a real help there because if you do end up targeting your own guy you can often pick a low card and just miss. But this same issue also come us with a regular FM who doesn't have anyting in charge range.

1 hour ago, wafew said:

a + attack flip is wonderful, and is in fact more reliable, however it doesn't mean that you'll automatically not need to cheat. and it doesn't mean FM will automatically need to cheat either. the only card that FM will 100% spend is for the field guide action. Wether or not you need to cheat in for the attack/damage is up to luck, same for the FT.

Not necesarily the point I was trying to make. For a zero card investment, the trappers damage track of 2/3/5 is like a FM damage track after the FM has referenced the feild guide for a ram (2/3/6). The trapper gets there with no card investment, the trapper also has the + flip which before cheating occurs avarages to a +2 to the attack stat. On top of this point, the trapper has a built in mask for reposition. So a regular shot from a trapper has +2", almost the effects of a FM feild guiding a ram, AND a free reposition with no card investment. 

I'm beating a bit of a dead horse here though since we already both agreed the trapper is better, and also costs more.

1 hour ago, wafew said:

The same can be said about the FT and his Sh stat of 5

Not the point I was trying to make, I doubt I'd give the trapper rams from an engineer either, unless I was trying to 1 shot something turn 1, in which case the engineer is likely not poisitioned to do it. My point was that because the engineer exists and because it has the option of giving the FM a ram which takes his potential damge very high, we will very unlikely see the FM get a buff to compensate for it's (IMO) poor ability to preform reliably. It is my opinoin that the FM is probably the perfecdt example of a 4.5ss worth model. Which really is the whole reason I think it's bad. It's a wave 1 model that at this point has fallen behind the curve and the "fixes" in place are card intensive and not worth it. But the fact that these "fixes" exist means the FM is stuck where it is presently at. Not good enough for 5ss too good for 4ss.

1 hour ago, wafew said:

I think the engineer is amazing, but I see him as running with the FM, rather than replacing the FM, if you charge in with the FE, and can lower the enemies df by 2, then you can have FM follow in with a higher chance to succeed, and get a neutral/positive flip too, and increase a FM's damage on top of that.

when the FE comes out, and Show of force is a scheme in the pool, I plan to use FE, and 2 FM, and have FE give himself +1 armor, and the buff, charge in, weaken an enforcer/hench/master, have 2 FM charge in as well, get the +2df trigger, and sit there. on paper that sounds good to me, still need to try it.

For the points I feel like you'd get more reliable results from Anna or the Strongarm. the melee of 5 on the engineer could be bad, could be a good combo the right models though.

8 hours ago, wafew said:

Why with all the exaggerations... 

 

You don't have to take/like the model or think it's good, just stop trashing it so hard and keep complainning about it when it has it's strengths. Either nothing is going to change, or Wyrd will buff them, to the point where everyone will take them, and then there'll be another model to trash about until the cycle repeats.

I don't think the exagerations are out of place. The FM is outshined by many other models, if someone can make use of them in NB as a merc, good for them (I legitmatelty think that is cool), the only reason I see for hiring a FM in a schill crew is for cheap survivability (which in my experience isn't that great, they still die fairly easily).

In terms of the trapper, it is just flat out better. 

1) the trapper doesn't care about about melee, it will just push out using it's 0, so the FM being better at it is a moot point.

2) Trapper's min damage compared to a FM is 1 higher, which is like baking in a ram (so there is 1 card you aren't spending on the trapper)

3) The Trappers push trigger is built in, and connected to a + attack, which makes it a) not cost a card and b) more reliable

4) It's also 2ss higher so obviously it should be better. FM can be good but only if they cost you a lot of cards, the trapper preforms without cards, and only ever needs one to push out of melee. 

I've run the 2 box FM in Vonschill lists for ages, and only recently took them out, because they just aren't preforming well enough for a 10ss investment, or are costing me cards that are better spent else where.

The whole crew wants rams, so it's not worth me spending them on an attack stat of 5 (shooting) when I could use them elsewhere on an attack stat of 6, also typically once oppnents see me invest multiple cards into a FM attack they drop a big card to make it miss.

I used to be a big defender of the FM, but other models have come out at the 5-6ss cost that outshine them, and the engineer also came out, which hurt the FM in two fold.

The engineer being only 1 cost higher than the FM just looks more desirable, and also since the engineer can add rams to other models it upped the damge output of a FM, which means it is highly unlikely to see any sort of boost.

40 minutes ago, MalifauxDave said:

Actively however she has a 6ml 2/3/5 with a glimpse trigger built in, a pretty lame gun, mass fast as long as one enemy is hit and a choice of 0s, chatty or a conditional reactivate. 

2/3/5 done 6 times, each causing a TN13 WP duel adds up quickly, and burns the enemy hand.

41 minutes ago, MalifauxDave said:

My problem with this is that it doesnt feel like a master model at all. The mass fast ability conflicts with the reactivate, unless you are ditching half of your control hand in your first activation. 

It doesn't actually. Fast does not go away at the end of turn. Fast goes away at the end of activation. So on Tara's reactivation she can pulse out fast (even if she already has no hand) and get a bunch of your models fast for nest turn.

44 minutes ago, MalifauxDave said:

Knowledge of Eternity (2ss) offers + flips to initiative and an ability to give fast/slow, do a damage and a glimpse trigger @ 8" range. Going first can be extremely valuable, but the ability is pretty similar to the zero you get on your void wretches... as a 0...

I always take this upgrade. Every time.  Tara does fast/slow at 8" instead of 4",  at CA vs wp instead of CA 5 vs df, and hers has a built in bury test and does a damage. 
Also, end of turn you pulse out fast, next turn win initiative with +flip, then use this to remove fast from the enemy that gained it. 

50 minutes ago, MalifauxDave said:

Out of time (1ss) encourages you to take void wretches by reducing the cost of an ability that can only target buried models. Burying models in an of itself can be hard a lot of the times. +flips when you have no cards in hand is pretty good if you can get Tara to reactivate at the end of turn after using your hand, or if you ditched 3 or less cards to the fast pulse ability. It also gives a CA action that does damage equal to the turn amount, but can only be used once per activation. 

Ignore what this ability does for void wretches, that is just a situational bonus that might happen. You are taking this upgrade for + to all flips when out of cards. This is huge. It make her really scary late turn when your opponent is low/out of cards. It's a plus to ALL flips, duels, damage, damage prevention. This alone is worth a stone, and then it comes with the added bonus of an attack that damages without having to flip for damage, and heals at the same time.

56 minutes ago, MalifauxDave said:

Dead of Winter (1ss) protects void models at the cost of discarding cards, and offers price of haste that lets you weaponize fast but you are still giving your opponents fast...

Eternal Journey (1ss) lets you blink back to the deployment zone if you are the first model to activate and allows you to use buried models actions but no triggers. I'll pass. 

Emptiness (0ss) lets you attach a bunch of these mediocre upgrades, discard them to draw cards and gives you another incentive to bury enemies. 

Dropping a card to prevent damage can be amazing, also turning TN 13 bury tests into TN 15 bury tests should not be under estimated. There are so many things in this crew that target wp debuffing it by 2 can be huge.

Blinking back to your deployment zone can be a game winner. Popping up next to an enemy scheme marker and removing it can deny points so easily, and you can do this on your reactivation.

Emptiness is 0 and doesn't even take up a slot, what more do you really want from it? Start spamming out glimpse tests and you'll see it take effect.

Slingshotting a model up the board via Tara and Scion is a real threat. I think it's the most boring way to play the game, but it is legitimately effective. 

Tara is certainly an unusual master, and it takes a lot of practice to know what tools to use when. Once you get a handle on her though, I think she is greatly under estimated by opponents.

On 6/5/2018 at 6:21 PM, Haagrum said:

I'm curious - have you tried the upgrade that lets you know your opponent's unrevealed Schemes? If so, was it any help in playing to block them from scoring?

If the scheme pool has multiple schemes where the points are scored all at once, it can be an amazing upgrade.

If however the pool is full of 1 point per turn schemes, it is less worth while.  

Tara - Out of Time, Knowledge of eternity, Emptiness, then either Dead of Winter or Eternal Journey whichever suit the schemes.

Karina - The Faces of Oblivion

The Nothing Beast - Void Shield

Scion of the void - (Scramble - option 1)

Talos - (The Bigger they are - option 2)

1x Death Marshal

2x void wretch

[Get yourself, 1 punk zombie, 1 drowned, and a box of guild autopsies for summoning].

That is my default list, then switch upgrades to suit to taste/scheme. I never bother with Obliteration symbiote because I think beast bombs are really boring to play as or against.

I like one death marshal, because if they hang back a bit they can often enough hit way above thier pay grade by burying Nekima or howard etc. If you don't want to spend so much right away you could use a second death marshal instead of the Talos (that is what I did until recently when I got a Talos myself). The must have outside of the Tara box in my opinion is the Scion. It is amazing at being where it needs to be to score points or deny them, and has threatening enough attacks.

Just remember that TARA DOES NOT ALWAYS HAVE TO GO FIRST. If something is going to die then often it is worth activating it before Tara. Often Tara's first activation isn't that great anyways because she has to play a bit cagey (she is very weak vs strong Ml attacks).

This should be a solid Tara crew, until you get a hang of your personal Tara playstyle.

On 6/2/2018 at 12:52 PM, wafew said:

I think it's fine if not everyone values a model, I like them as their are, I would be less likely to pick them up if they didn't have crit strike. I would especially never consider them in other factions as a weaker 4ss.

I just don't see the appeal of making the model cheaper, by making it a weaker/generic model, at that point you could just get a desperate merc.

You actually consider taking them in other factions?
I wouldn't consider taking them outside of Schill.

9 hours ago, beergod said:

biggest issue is that at 4 stones korpsman are too good, at 5 not good enough. even with some some tweaks they most likely would not see play out side of VS as the faction has better scheme runners in the form of Winged plagues and Void Wretches The change I would make is to VS him self in that for each korpsman in the crew he he gets a SS back up to max of 3

I think the easier fix at this point is to make them a little worse and drop them to 4ss. The addition of the engineer really ruined them. 1) for one point more you get a better model. 2) the fact that the engineer can add rams to the freikorpsman would fix them, except adding rams to pretty much any other freikorps model is a better return on investment, so the freikorpsman is still bad.

Maybe drop crit strike, up the damage to min 2 and lower them to 4ss. Something else might also have to drop, but at 5ss they are just outclassed by so many things. 

The fact that she doesn't randomize on shooting is really great in a Freikorp crew. I think she combos well with the Strongarm or Schill getting stuck in. She's fantastic with fast from Oathkeeper each turn. Only thing to remember is that she doesn't have freikorp armor so be weary of blasts and pulses.

Rush of magic is just gravy.

Lady Ligeia is my favourite thing about a Jack crew.

She has absolutely won me games, and ruined opponents plans. I also don't think it is very difficult to get her where you want her to be on full wounds.

Hide her behind some large bases and/or cover on her advance. She's walk 6 and incorporeal so when it's time she can just walk right through said cover and blocking models. Give her defensive stance every single turn, and when you have her where you want her go defensive x2. There are so many ways to move her around in a tormented crew that I find it's never an issue to use 1 of her AP each turn for defensive stance.

I think Jaakuna is a good pick in Ours. 

Give her unnerving aura and position her near the centre but still scoring. Use her lure to pull a decent enemy model into the non scoring zone, she’s pretty good at keeping them there while they slowly disintegrate.

5 hours ago, cbtb11235813 said:

I tend to win initiative one turn every 5-10 games I play, so I just try to plan my strategy around going 2nd every turn. Not worth spending the stones on that for me

You should try playing Tara.  on Init flips. Typically I after stone use I only lose 1 per game.

54 minutes ago, cbtb11235813 said:

Would this actually work?

Yes. Since Lazarus is a friekorp Hannah can copy his (0), which then copies a constuct's (1) action. 
Both require a TN duel needing a 6, and both models would need to be within 8" of Hannah.

I use crates and barrels. 
I figure they will always be a pretty safe marker to have for objectives, mine don't accurately  reflect  ht 5 but I'm not concerned about it.

1 hour ago, green-n-dumb said:

McTawish is good merc? Ok, remove the merc keyword. It wont hurt Gremlins and old granny Z still will hire him as a swampfiend.

I can't think of a way to anger malifaux players more than removing the Merc keyword from a model. 

6 hours ago, Gnomezilla said:

I’ve already seen painted gassers...

and their frantic flailing is min1, so the steam arachnid is already dead once touched...unless you meant they could kill the entire clump of fresh spiders with their 0AP toot.

I guess they haven't made it to my area yet.

I meant the toot. It is not defendable, and with Sebastian near by will do 3 damage ignoring armor. 

When they come out little gassers will be amazing at dealing with the spiders in combination with Sebastian. They'll kill all but full health spiders.

There wasn't a Malifaux preview ready so you are showing us Bayou Bash.

Case Closed.

7 hours ago, Ludvig said:

I guess they figured that if you want to kill or bury your engineer to prolong the buff you should be free to do so.

It's an interesting decision considering both Francisco and Loco had to get errata because players abused an even more restrictive wording on their buffs. At least you can use cpndition removal to take the armour away.

Those are both much better buffs IMO, and made it problematic as to when an opponent could kill those models. Also Hoffman's power loop continues after he dies/is buried  (going by memory) So there are still cases that fit this format.

2 hours ago, SirRocketPants said:

Death marshals only see my lists when I want to do a double bomb (burry The void beast and Bishop for example for a turn 1 alpha strike), otherwise they are quite useless.

In contrast I almost always take 2 Death Marshals. I think they are fantastic. Pine box lets them swing way above thier weight class, hard to wound means you don't need to worry about cheating cards for thier defence, and finish the job has won me games. A Death Marshal with fast is no joke. 

Also between Tara and the Scion you can do 5 damage to a model by burying them (which comes from conditions which can be very good vs Take on for the team).

TLDR: Love me some Death Marshals

my favourite Tara list is
Tara
Karina
Nothing Beast
Scion of the Void
Death Marshal
Death Marshal
Void Wretch
Void Wretch

So I recommend:
Tara Box
Scion
Death Marshals
Guild Autopsies (for summons or to swap out the wretches)
Then try to get a Punk zombie (for summons).

Friekorps specialist. Loved him with Jack at 8, love him even more at 7.