Addman

Actually no, If the Voodoo connects with a model with Shrug Off, they can't remove it with that spell. The effect sits on the Voodoo Doll, not on, in your case, the Ortega. The part in the Voodoo Doll's rules that says " This remains in effect on this model until it is removedfrom play or it casts Reconnect" means that the effect of Conduit is sitting on the Voodoo Doll. While the Ortega is the nominated Model, it does not have an effect actually sitting on it, just the Voodoo doll that has an effect sitting on it that can effects the nominated Model. It is why the Voodoo Doll's rules always refer to them as the nominated model, and says at the end that the effect is on "this model".

Conduit is not an effect placed on the target, ever -."

that not true, shrug off use by the ortega's can remove Conduit from them self.

pretty sure you can't, conduit lasts until the model casts reconnect - so if the doppleganger casts it more than once, the conduit target simply changes.

no conduit says: when a model is removed from play, or it (the Voodoo Doll) casts Reconnect. if it (the Voodoo Doll) never casts Reconnect it wouldn't

my card says sadly says

place this model withing 2" of Zorida OR a Friendly model with puppet master.

says nothing about a friendly zorida

what version of card do you have?

i just looked at my card and it says friendly zoraida

---------- Post added at 02:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:13 AM ----------

The ability Conduit on the Voodoo Doll says the following:

"Nominate a non-Master enemy model in Zoraida’s LoS when this model is summoned. As long as this model is within 1” of Zoraida, she ignores LoS and range when targeting the nominated model with a spell. Her Casting and spell Damage Flips receive + when targeting the nominated model. The nominated model suffers Poison 2 at the end of the Closing Phase. This remains in effect on this model until it is removed from play or it casts Reconnect."

The ability Reconnect on the Voodoo Doll says the following:

"Target model is now affected by Conduit."

Conduit, is a talent possessed by the Voodoo Doll. All that Reconnect does is make a Target model become effected by the talent Conduit, which is possessed by the Voodoo Doll.

Normally, when a Voodoo Doll is summoned into play, you nominate a non-Master model in Zoraida's LoS, and that model becomes affected by the talent Conduit. The model affected by Conduit is normally selected when the Voodoo Doll is summoned into play, what the spell Reconnect does is bypass the targeting selection specified in Conduit (when the Voodoo Doll is summoned into play) and allows a new Target model to be affected by Conduit directly without going through Conduit's normal target selection process.

This would mean that when you cast Reconnect another Target model is affected by Conduit. However, the talent Conduit has a line that specifies when the effect Conduit expires on any given model affected by it; when a model is removed from play, or it (the Voodoo Doll) casts Reconnect. If the model or Voodoo doll never does any of these, the effects never expire.

Note that it does not say if any model casts reconnect, but specifically it. And since this ability is possessed only by the Voodoo Doll, the "it" is the Voodoo Doll.

In essence the talent Conduit doesn't put any effects on any models, only targets these models. And the talent stops targeting those models when certain criteria are met. The Doppleganger's Mimic allows you to add models to be targeted by Conduit while simultaneously bypassing the criteria that determines when a model is no longer targeted.

A great explanation by marful of the general idea

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?39475-doppelganger-and-Voodoo-doll-question/page2

The ability Conduit on the Voodoo Doll says the following:

The ability Reconnect on the Voodoo Doll says the following:

Conduit, is a talent possessed by the Voodoo Doll. All that Reconnect does is make a Target model become effected by the talent Conduit, which is possessed by the Voodoo Doll.

Normally, when a Voodoo Doll is summoned into play, you nominate a non-Master model in Zoraida's LoS, and that model becomes affected by the talent Conduit. The model affected by Conduit is normally selected when the Voodoo Doll is summoned into play, what the spell Reconnect does is bypass the targeting selection specified in Conduit (when the Voodoo Doll is summoned into play) and allows a new Target model to be affected by Conduit directly without going through Conduit's normal target selection process.

This would mean that when you cast Reconnect another Target model is affected by Conduit. However, the talent Conduit has a line that specifies when the effect Conduit expires on any given model affected by it; when a model is removed from play, or it (the Voodoo Doll) casts Reconnect. If the model or Voodoo doll never does any of these, the effects never expire.

Note that it does not say if any model casts reconnect, but specifically it. And since this ability is possessed only by the Voodoo Doll, the "it" is the Voodoo Doll.

In essence the talent Conduit doesn't put any effects on any models, only targets these models. And the talent stops targeting those models when certain criteria are met. The Doppleganger's Mimic allows you to add models to be targeted by Conduit while simultaneously bypassing the criteria that determines when a model is no longer targeted.

by this explanation (which is a great one by the way... good show) you could target master with it. because it bypass the summoned part which says "Nominate a non-Master enemy model in Zoraida’s LoS when this model is summoned" vary interesting....

If your Zoraida was facing another Zoraida, and your Wicked Doll cast Reconnect, could you claim that it's the opponent's Wicked Doll's Conduit that gets changed? That's a Conduit that's in play, after all. Total nonsense. Abilities without a specific reference otherwise are assumed to be on the model's card.

what? i'm assuming you mean "a voodoo doll" and, that wouldn't simply work because Conduit says: "this remains in effect on this model until it is removed from play or it cast Reconnect." your opponent's voodoo Doll never used Reconnect so it cant change. you just lose Conduit

When you copy things, the things they mention don't necessarily come along - this comes up with Molly trying to copy Bette Noir's One With The Night but not being able to return to play.

If you copy Reconnect and try to cast it, it looks for Conduit on the Doppelganger, doesn't find it, and the spell fizzles.

You could also copy Conduit, and it would do nothing by itself because it requires the Doppelganger to be summoned in order to take effect.

If you copied both Conduit and Reconnect, you could then cast Reconnect on a target to have it be affected by the Doppelganger's Conduit (with the benefits to Zoraida's casting and the Poison that entails). As a bonus, the Conduit would last until the Doppelganger or the target was removed.

but Reconnect's not trying to looks for Conduit on the Doppelganger, it just say its now "affected" by Conduit. unlike Molly and One With The Night which says "...it (the model casting One With The Night) may "use" Drawn to death to return to play" Reconnect never looks on the Doppelganger for Conduit it just make the new target also "affected" by Conduit.

Zoraida Creates a Voodoo Doll on a model.

then Doppelganger copy's Reconnect a spell from the voodoo Doll on another model.

Reconnect says: "Target model is now affected by Conduit." since the voodoo Doll didn't cast Reconnect, is the first model is still connect to the Voodoo Doll along with the second?

and

Is the Target model now permanently affected by Conduit until the "voodoo Doll" casts Reconnect or removed from play?

i was hoping to get a rule confirmation on a discussion on this post

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?39475-doppelganger-and-Voodoo-doll-question&p=511831#post511831

Zoraida Creates a Voodoo Doll on a model.

then Doppelganger copy's Reconnect a spell from the voodoo Doll on another model.

Reconnect says: "Target model is now affected by Conduit." since the voodoo Doll didn't cast Reconnect, is the first model is still connect to the Voodoo Doll along with the second?

and

Is the Target model now permanently affected by Conduit until the "voodoo Doll" casts Reconnect or removed from play?

So, another query, as I am interested. If the Doppelganger casts Reconnect on a model unaffected by the Voodoo Doll's Reconnect, are there now two models which are affected by Conduit?

~Lil Kalki

if you mean the Doppelganger casting Reconnect on one model and then trying to cast it on another model. I think it would lose the first model the Doppelganger cast Reconnect on because Conduit says that it "this remains in effect on this model until it is removed from play or it cast Reconnect."

This was brought up in the Doppelganger thread, but all you need to do is copy Reconnect and cast it. Since Conduit specifies how long it lasts, the model you target with Reconnect will remain affected until you cast it again. That also means that it will keep getting Poison 2 every End Closing Phase. It is dirty, but totally legit.

but wouldn't the Doppelganger have to copy Conduit as well?

1) Doppelganger copy's Reconnect spell from the voodoo Doll.

2) Doppelganger casts Reconnect.

Reconnect says: Target model is now affected by Conduit. Do I need to have the Doppelganger, have the Ability Conduit for the Voodoo doll or would the Target model be affected by Conduit because the Voodoo doll has it?

Question 2:

The Doppelganger's Ability, Mimic says: "This lasts until the End Closing Phase"

The Voodoo doll's Ability Conduit says: "The nominated model suffers Poison 2 at the end of the Closing Phase"

Would the target model suffers Poison 2?