chris_havoc

I must admit I see very limited use for Brutal Kh-Ka-Kakarot. Maybe in a 10T list coupled with Misdirection it would make more sense to risk missing with Yan's actions but I would rather definitely get off 2 damage than not get off 3. Perhaps if it was Ca 4 and not Ml 5 it would be more playable as it got better with Chi. Ca 7 beat stick but if that's the case Bone Ascendant would also be more appealing and take focus from the defensive Ascendant Upgrades, for me at least. Maybe it shouldn't trigger Harvest Chi in that case though?

That's besides the point, that is one area I think he could improve. I LOVE Reliquary. Playing Unnerving Aura on Yin and Izamu is a bomb and a half. Escaping Yin is dangerous with Wicked and Izamu will not let you leave. It's good enough that it almost lost me points it was so effective at killing. That means playing both of them quite aggressively and that means Reliquary comes in really useful. 10/8ss Enforcer models on an 8   is amazing especially after having had to pour in enough damage to actually kill either of them.

Fortify the Spirit is OK it is not automatic so becomes quite pricey but Df/Wp 8 is pretty awesome especially when you are Impossible to Wound and Incorporeal. Transcendence is great, obviously, and has the option of being an expensive and powerful general buff or a cheap and powerful buff for a single model. Izamu with Armour 4 makes even Killjoy have to work for it. I've never really used Terracotta Curse but I image it's very much like McCabe's Netgun, amazingly good control over the other crews ability to maneuver it just doesn't suit my playing style.

Someone said earlier in the thread that, like Kirai and one half of Molly, Yan Lo is hampered by the lack of available plastic Spirit models. I am kind of excited to think how good it would be to get off Fury of the Yomi on Gaki if you have some Masks for Blood Frenzy. With Datsue Ba there to summon Gaki and Seishin for heals or moving Izamu around I can imagine that when those models are available Yan Lo will take on a new light in Ressers. I still think he is great as is and I'd love to hear feedback from people who might have the old Spirit models.

Way longer than I intended when I started replying.

TL;DR Yan Lo GOOD

Servant of the Five Dragons would work to some degree too. I really like him. He is a threat to begin with but if you fail to take him out once off he will murderise pretty much anything.

I still really like Ototo for Misaki and he would wrk pretty well with Yan Lo too with the combination of Hard to Kill/Enraged and Yan Lo's heal. But yeah a lot of people see him as slow but Wk 5 makes him about average.

A lot of discussion here on it: http://wyrd-games.net/community/topic/107350-yan-lo-question/

Ha-ha. Hey that's the list I posted on he Resser forum.

I also struggle to build for Yan Lo in 10T. Keen to give it a go though!

I agree with everything that has been said. If you want to play Mei Feng she is great as an Arcanist or 10T Master and her Foundry models are available to you in both. Which Faction you expand into depends on the aesthetic you prefer. If you like the Asian theme then 10T is the way to go if you like the big steampunk robots then Arcanists will be a better bet.

Well, basically I don't bait a Charge. I just use an Ashigaru to set up Brace and then do what I need to do with my other models. What has been very effective is splitting Toshiro and my Ashigaru into their own little group. It means that they don't always have to Brace though I do always try to. If you want to move them more quickly, use one Ashigaru to move and Brace and then move another forward twice. If they are Summoned and/or damaged the Charge might become more desirable but I don't mind them not being Charged at all.

Ashigaru are also possibly the best minions around for Squatters' Rights and Protect Territory if they have Toshiro around. It is difficult or painful getting to them, they are Armour +1 and Hard To Kill so tough as nails especially if your opponent doesn't have all their attacks because they didn't Charge, and once they hit things back they have to Attack Flips and automatically Push models off of objectives.

P.S. I also only use on Ashigaru but I Summon one off-the-bat with Toshiro and Corpse Bloat and depending on my Hand I will either Prevent Damage from 'You Don't Need A Spleen, Right?' or get him healed up by Yan or Chiaki. After that you have a pretty renewable source of Corpse Markers because Ashigaru can generate a lot of Attacks with their (1) Charge or Fast from Toshiro and if they die you can Summon back. The real beauty is that Toshiro isn't competing for Crows in an all-Ancestor crew.

I'm pretty sure the intent has always been if you charge something Scary other than the hanged that is near a hanged, you'll be taking a lot of Terryifying tests.

How can that have always been the intent? That if you charge something OTHER than The Hanged you take lots of tests? The final beta was this:

"Unrelenting Terror: Other models in 4 lose all Immunities to Horror Duels, including Immunity gained by passing a Horror Duel."

Now, it was brought up in beta that this would cause three Horror tests on the Charge given the nature of Terrifying. Thus, the intent seems to be that total immunity is not the intent, immunity on the basis that one action would cause three Horror duels is what this tries to solve. The issue you highlight with two Hanged must have come up after release.

Written I have no argument or misunderstanding of how it works but I still feel this is a messy rule and not in line with the intent of the rule makers. It is needlessly complicated and causes a lot of strange interactions in a game designed to be pretty straight forward. It doesn't appear to be a matter of hidden synergy, just a mistake when the conditional immunity was written. Now I know that people have been warned against making this argument but it is a case where it seems obvious that the intent was to make the immunity removal universal. Given the climate of the beta and the official rules it seems this was too powerful when the Charge Action was taken into account.

So why is there still a loophole where this too-powerful combination is still a possibility and why does it cause this weird interaction with Relentless models? The answer seems to me to be that the writters aren't omniscient and mistakes are bound to appear even with beta testing and the obvious care Wyrd puts into writing clear and succinct rules. It's taken half a year to spot the Relentless issue so it's not like the problem was obvious.

Yeah Nurses definitely add some serious damage potential too. Getting Lightning Dance off on a model and placing it in Izamu's range where he's doing minimum 5 damage and I might try out a Nurse instead of the one Ashigaru and have Toshiro start from scratch. Although, Ashigaru are amazing. Great control models with Brace.

I just had a game with Kirai and a bunch of Terrifying models. I realised that Unrelenting Horror stipulates that the model doesn't test for Horror if it Charges The Hanged but if a model decides to Charge another model with Horror while within the Aura then they would have to test for the Charge and all subsequent Actions. It just seems to me like this is a case where the designers and beta testers didn't pick up on the problematic wording. I hope this gets clarified next FAQ/Errata, is here the right place to ask for that?

Nurses are great and I won't deny it. But it means healing all a model's wounds and then using Chiaki to remove the Paralyzed. Seems like a bigger investment. Also if you're using the Nurse to heal the Summon damage you have to use both of Chiaki's actions to remove Slow and Paralyzed.

The only gripe I have with Yan Lo is that he and his associated models feel much better as Ressers than they do as 10T. Recently I've increased my Resser collection but I am still predominantly a 10T player with Ressers being my second faction. That being said I LOVE Yan Lo when I play him and I play an entirely fluffy crew with him.

Yan Lo with Reliquay and Fortify the Spirit, Soul Porter, Toshiro with Corpse Bloat and Command The Graves, Izamu with Unnerving Aura, Yin with Unnerving Aura, and an Ashigaru.

I don't think I have ever lost with this crew. The worst I have done I think is draw and I played this crew pretty much the entire two/three months I was painting them.

The first thing you have to consider that hasn't been brought up is that without Yan Lo you can't get the Soul Porter and that little dude is AMAZING. He turns your tough but slow Yin/Izamu/Yan Lo into something far faster than it should be. He doesn't pose that big a threat but he hits well and has a massive range that dishes out Chi effectively. Several times I have charged him in and given Chiaki or Toshiro or even Izamu that +1 Ca to get their great actions off more easily.

Secondly, some guys are saying Yan Lo does 'some' healing. I think that is a massive understatement. After you've built up Chi you can heal 4 wounds on a model with no negative effects for an 8 of any suit. That is really good. Accompanied by Chiaki it means you can potentially heal 6 wunds and remove Slow from a model you Summon back with Reliquary without wasting actions really. Sure a Nurse can heal all wounds but then your monster is Slow and Paralyzed and Chiaki needs to use two actions on top of the Nurse and the Summon to accomplish the same goal as just Yan Lo and Chiaki.

Thirdly, Reliquary itself. With Chi you can Summon a 10ss model back for an 8 . Izamu is one of the most popular Resser models as are Yin, Chiaki, and Toshiro. The opportunity to bring them back after they die is absurdly good even for a far higher cost. Besides, no one else can do that.

Fourth...ly, the synergy Yan Lo has with his crew is basically that hidden ability to basically just undo all the work an opponent has put into taking down your crew. On top of that he can deal damage both at a 12" range and up close. It may not be the best damage but once you've got yourself some Chi you know you will be hitting and with his range he can pot shot scheme runners into oblivion. Or Lightning Dance something he can't take down into the loving embrace of Izamu. Yes, he has a soft synergy with spirits but I tend to find it a bit pricey to spend Chi unless it's pouring out my ears. However, I have spent 1 Chi to turn the very scary Killjoy facing off against Izamu into a no-damage hack.

I agree with both Fetid and Kadeton. If I remember correctly I bought the issue of three Horror Duels being caused by a Charge action against The Hanged. So it seems that the intent here is for Charges to be forced to test for Terrifying once within range of Unrelenting Terror rather than three times. So I would like to see an FAQ confirming that Unrelenting Terror is intentionally circumveted completely by a Charge or an Errata fixing the wording of the Aura.

Something like:

"Unrelenting Terror: Enemy models in 4 lose all Immunities to Horror Duels, including Immunity gained by passing a Horror Duel. This does not apply to Actions resulting from a Charge Action."

I have been running a shooty Misaki list for a bit now and it's treated me really well. I have personally loved running her with her minimum Soulstone cache so that if you have Stalking Bisento or Recalled Training you can burn your last Soulstone for a Crow and auto-Trigger Assassination. From then on you are always threatinging the Trigger thanks to the Craw gained from Risky Ventures and you get Positives on Df so Misdirection has a pretty good chance of going off without needing to cheat in cards. Because of that it's not a bad idea to get engaged (though not necessarily target) Levi as he can't unmake things then and you can redirect his Death Touch under the right circumstances. But Msaki is so quick and impossible to tie down that she is well suited to chase the Waifs. Rusty, Lazarus, and Ashes and Dust are all really tough to take down but it helps to remove the anchors for Waifs but given that crew I am not sure they are the primary target.

Waifs have an annoyingly high Df 6, but they are essentially Levi's defense so focussing them is great. If you can keep your model count up and his down you should be able to cause a real threat because he won't be able to activate Levi last and use his (0) to Summon Waifs to bounce back. Katanaka Snipers are great early game as they out-range most things. They are also resilient with Hard to Kill against not-Levi and can Engage in melee late game to dish out some decent damage. In a Misaki crew they are great too because she has a tendency to go down meaning these guys will get Reactivate. Archers are great later in the game when things are Engaged and they can shoot into combat regardless. As has been said, Blot the Sky is great. It means that hiding Waifs behind terrain is not all that safe. The Jigoku Samurai is also a great addition as he has a massive 14" Range, triple Positives, and a potentially endless Trigger to Target multiple models which, thanks to his range, could be miles apart. His damage potential is massive despite its seemingly average 2/3/4. Yamaziko would not be too bad an idea with her Wp 7 and Positives vs. Masters. She will also deny Rusty's hail-mary Burn Out to some degree by denying the Reactivating model a charge with Brace. Though I like to use Fuhatsu with Blot the Sky in my shooty crew, Kang would definitely not be a bad idea with it and Smoke and Shadows if you are playing Levi.

As a predominantly 10T player I would say one thing to really look out for is Misdirection if you are facing a 10T Master that is competent in Close Combat. So Mei Feng, Misaki, or McCabe. If you are playing a Master like Nicodem and you have a relatively bunched up positioning they will love it. Not all people play with them that aggressively but they can cause serious casualties and slow your game right down. Mei Feng and Misaki are basically impossible to tie down because of Rail Walk and Leaping Charge respectively but McCabe can be counterted if he charges into a clump by trying to get your valuable guys out of the combat and replacing them with expendable models so that hitting Misdirection is a non-issue. For Mei Feng avoiding big attacks that she Misdirects is a good way to go about dealing with her. Against Misaki there is almost no point to preventing the Misdirection by discarding cards as she will be able to punish you later in the turn by charging into something big and using her Assassination trigger to kill it.

Basically don't be overly tempted to discard the two cards to prevent Misdirection. If you know your opponent is planning to Misdirect your attacks then finding something other than attacking to do with your actions is not a bad idea. Another GREAT counter is to simply cheat to miss your attack thereby circumventing the whole ordeal. The Students and Valedictorian can counter the whole thing with their (0) but all three of those 10T's have good Wp stats so it's not a sure thing.

I have a McCabe list that is pretty all comers. McCabe with Promises, Badge of Speed, and Misdirection. Ama No Zako. 2 Pathfinders and 2 Clockwork Traps. Luna. 4 Guild Hounds. This list works for pretty much everything. Reckoning may not be your best bet but Vendetta and Make them Suffer are not all that bad to face when all the models are so ridiculously fast or in your face Turn 1.

Basically, Badge of Speed pushes and then gives Ama No Zako Nimble and Positives on Attack while Near McCabe so she is capable of a 22" move or 19" charge that hits pretty consistently. Then McCabe himself can move 21" or charge 18". These are straight line ranges obviously but still at the very least you will be in a position to get into combat Turn 2. McCabe in melee with Promises and Misdirection is a scary, scary thing. Automatic Critical Strike gives you a 3/4/5 damage track as alway too. Df 6/7, Wp 6 with Positives, Ml6 3/4/5 with Positives to Attack, and Misdirection for card control. He is a MONSTER when you throw him in to the thick of it. Obviously you can also always steal back the Badge to hand out Reactivate to your dogs or Pathfinders.

I always run Pathfinders and Traps one-for-one because summoning is not to intensive and you have the option of keep the Trap back with the Pathfinder or send the Trap up to hold up an enemy crew. I only ever do the former if I am made to deploy first, the latter is amazing it basically puts your opponent a turn behind having to deal with the traps and Pathfinders can dish out damage effectively too.

Luna and the dogs obviously run objectives. The goal is to keep Luna as safe as possible, losing her can put you at a huge disadvantage if you don't still have all your dogs to cancel insignificant I run mine in groups of two, one group with Luna. A nice trick with the dogs and Luna is to Wk Luna up her 7" and place a Scheme Marker and then have whichever dogs are with her Cg for 1AP this gives you 3 attacks usually and means that dealing with other scheme runners is not a tall order even though the dogs only cost 3ss.

If I am playing Reckoning I will likely swap out Ama No Zako and a Hound for Ototo and his upgrade. McCabe's ability to give out Slow makes the Trigger on Ototo's upgrade almost certain to go off if you have the cards, ss, or Enrage. Meaning his damage track becomes 4/6/7 against Slow models or 3/5/6 with just Critical Strike. Plus he benefits massively from Badge of Speed's Nimble because he can then Wk and Flurry.

With there only being 24ss worth of models in the Vengeful Spirits box, no henchman, and only 2 of 5 possible Seishin it seems like a really undesirable box to get. Am I being crazy or does it seem like a bit of a jip? OK, I know I am being a bit harsh because you do get Ikiryo who is a big impressive model but no Henchman or enough Seishin to play properly it does kind of suck. I am definitely complaining but it won't be too bad if the next releases for Kirai mitigate this. Has there been any word releasing models like Datsue Ba and Jaakuna Ubme? If yes then great, if not then please, oh Wyrd ones, will you package Datsue Ba with more Seishin?

The only reason I saw this as post-worthy is because shipping costs to South Africa and availability of the old metals makes it really difficult to expand the crew in a meaningful way for anyone interested in starting her up.

1st of March! Rules in the following link: http://www.warhammergenerals.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=13326

Hey there! For those interested I will be running a small tournament at The Underground by Northgate in Johannesburg. All comers are welcome! See the attached rulespack for further information. It will be this Saturday at 10.00.

Chris.

Alright I couldn't see how to attach files so I have posted it here: http://www.warhammergenerals.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=13245

They DO work well with Cursed Object and Distract. They don't mind Deliver The Message either if they get the opportunity. I use them in my Misaki Turf War crew. Three with the Dawn Serpent and Yamaziko means they can heal to hold the objective and having a few of them means that they can prevent a lot of Charge Actions while Braced. Dawn Serpent also has Call Unto the Chi so benefits from their having Ca actions.

Conditions also work well to get around the Df Trigger. 10T has a fair amount of Burning to dish out which would whittle a rider down pretty effectively.

Still, one for each of those biggies means your lowest Wp in the crew is 7. If you KNOW you are playing Pandora I still think that is better. Especially if the majority of the models will receive a positive. Also because they can get the Fast/Focus benefit. Otherwise I totally agree 10T Brothers are better.

You are correct!

@Bumpasses Heavy hitters are fine if you are sitting on high Wp to lower the odds of her getting mood swing off. She has to be in 3" in order to make it happen so is putting herself at risk too.

@Cunning... wait a minute I see what you did there! Anyway, yeah they do stack. p. 63 of the little book in the grey area. "All other effects which are not Conditions always stack unless they state otherwise."