chris_havoc

Rail Golem is still a really good choice. Not so sure about the Gamin anymore.

Honestly Mei is already fast enough, she doesn't need that many constructs (1 or 2) to get all the way across the board or to hop around. Her Kick can also act as a great way to reposition her and Misdirection gives her a lot of survivability in Ml. I think it's a mindset Arcanist players have when looking at Mei that she needs a lot of Constructs to be effective but it's really not the case, besides there are enough constructs in 10T now to have several, if not with the same utility and support as Arcanist constructs. These are some of the things I feel Mei gains playing for Ten Thunders:

For Upgrades:

Misdirection and Recalled Training are great reasons to take Mei in 10T. On Wings of Wind is also a great upgrade if you can't do without manoeuvrability and gives her a useful (0). 

For Direct Synergy:

Access to Toshiro is also great with the Rail Workers because he gives them the added  to attacks on top of their (0), can give out Fast, and when they die you can choose to Summon Ashigaru or Komainu to complement your board state. Don't forget that Banraku are also constructs, and as has been said, Obsidian Oni give out Scrap on a dime. The Shadow Effigy is also a great little construct and adds a lot to scheme runners and a master's defences. 

For (Somewhat) Indirect Synergy:

High River Monks and the Dawn Serpent give out Burning well, as does Kamaitachi who can push Mei and others around too. Sensei Yu is pretty cool too as he can push around Mei's slower Foundry models like Rail Workers and Kang, he can also use the (0) from On Wings of Wind. Also, access to a reliable condition removal and part-time healer in Chiaki is great. Ten Thunders also have access to some of the best shooting in the game that complements a very speedy melee master like Mei greatly. 

What I do like is, given her Ht, she poses a threat on the table wherever a Corpse Marker is dropped. It means that she offers pretty great board control late game when positioning often outweighs dealing with direct threats. I very much like the fact that she has Crow Triggers but that they are more corner case and won't stop the rest of the crew from going wild with Crows. I think Muhahaha! will be very useful with her as well as Decaying Aura which to me sounds good as she has some viable options between her Upgrades and generics for differing play styles. I like Life Drain but interested to see how effective it is, I suppose 5 is the usual difference between degrees of success so it may not be as corner case as I'm thinking. It means cheating just within range of a  is not the best strategy, especially if she's combo'd Decaying Aura and no reduction. I like that she has a place effect that ignores LoS, it means she will very reliably be able to get out of trouble or reposition to see Corpses elsewhere.

I reckon Mortimer is going to be stellar with her. The ability to drop Corpses with his Ml 7 shovel fairly easily and keep models pinned there while being very survivable will make him very useful. He is slow but Doxies can remedy that. The Emissary who, as said above, can use the Shards to get Ht 2 corpses in the enemy's face pretty efficiently will work pretty well. I've been wondering if the new Masters will get Emissary Upgrades actually. Does anyone know? Toshiro could also be very effective as he can use up unwanted Corpses for Summons or buff existing Minions. Using Anna to shoot some Mindless Zombies around if she gets lucky could be quite effective too, and good for keeping Reva from being pushed or moved around.

This is mostly speculative as her crew may add a lot of synergy but from her card it seems like she's not too one-dimensional like Lady J, if just for the fact that she's faster, can hit at range, and can decide between Df or Wp. She's also got some movement tricks which aren't mind blowing but give her some edge over being just a beater. Interested to see how her Upgrades and box add some more synergy.

P.S. I like the whole nun/necromancer theme behind her. Nuncromancer? I would like to see the inspiration aspect of her bio reflected more though in her rules, perhaps her Upgrades will accomplish that.

Chiaki and Lady J too. Scion of Black Blood only removes conditions from friendlies but when have Neverborn struggled to kill models? Thinking about NB, I just realised that Obey vs Asami may be pretty potent. Get a Charge for your Obey and damage the master at the same time as Obeyed models still count as friendly to their hired crew.

I'm not sure exactly, I may have missed a few, but these are the Condition removal models I can think of:

Guild: Lady J, and Witchlings

Ressers: Chiaki

Arcanists: I don't know?

Neverborn: Dreamer, Mysterious Emissary (apparently?), and Scion (but he doesn't count here)

Outcasts: Johan (also available to everyone else)

Gremlins: I don't know?

10T: Chaiki, and Low River Monks (hey they can kill something!)

It's a weakness for sure but an Upgrade that prevents models removing Conditions pretty much remedies it. Thus, too big an area of effect on the Upgrade negates it entirely, so why include it at all? Hence, I feel small(ish) aura and the timed nature of the Summons should be fairly balanced but, as has been stated before, this is all speculation and time on the table is the real test, not to mention the actual cards. I am excited I think she will be competitive and beatable from what I've seen and excited to get her on the table.

I think where she sits power-wise will depend a lot on the range of the no condition removal Upgrade. If it's 4/6" it's pretty great but I think fairly competitive and manageable, if it's 10" like the Soul Porter then I think it will prove far too powerful. Against crews without condition removal though her summoning may be too potent but given that so many crews rely on conditions within 10T and other factions I think it's safe to say it'll usually be alright as most crews will have means to remove conditions or function without it against other condition-heavy Masters.

I do agree that having models survive for a number of Turns equal to their Flicker is a low-cost Summon but how the Totem ups that condition will also determine the efficacy. That being said I do hope that he can't just up the Flicker willy-nilly as then a Turn 1 Summon is very likely to stay on the table all game. Also, given Summoned models are unable to Interact in their first turn the Flicker +1 may often come into play to score VP in tandem with her other Upgrade over having them survive the entire game.

The catch-up Summoning sounds interesting but the nature of some of Malifaux's schemes means that you can be quite far behind in points but still in a good position to win so here a Summon may be too much but this is pure speculation as the cost of this Summon is not clarified at all in her write-up.

The number of Masters and models that prevent charges will make Wrath of the Oni less useful which dumbs down her Summoning a bit. I know that's a corner case issue but declaring 10T almost always means something will be in your face so those factions that can take anti-Charge will very likely take it to frustrate whichever Master they face.

Like any bubble-Master I think Masters with a lot of Pushes and Blasts will function very well against Asami especially because Blasts circumvent her high Df. I'm interested to see what her placement effect will be as it may save her from these issues.

It's funny, the other day I argued that taking Yu and the Emissary in one Crew may be too many ss in support models but I can definitely see it working here, dishing out Fast, Pushes, and Focus buffs will help a lot with her lack of passive support. I suppose that's the case with most Summoners though, the more support the better because Chiaki seems pretty attractive a hire too to remove Slow. I can also see Yamaziko being played to Brace protect Asami and allow the Jorogumo to jump around the board like crazy.

Tara's ability triggers when she is defending against a Ca, not when targeted. Duels happen after having established targets, right? Which would mean Sonnia targets a Wp 5 Tara but Tara then gets +2 when determining her duel total.

On 18/07/2016 at 3:00 PM, Rurouni Benshin said:

Misdirection seems to work pretty well on the Viks.  For a crew that targets your Df heavily, it works out well if you can throw your Master into the fray early and amongst a bunch of his models.  That being said, I always keep a full cache when I play Shenlong, just in case you need the Mask.  Against any other Master, you probably wouldn't need to use many soulstones to prevent a lot of damage, but the Viks can hit pretty hard with the right buffs. 

I keep Low River on him so he is flipping multiple cards for Misdirection from Defensive.

Can't believe no one has mentioned taking out healers in a Viks crew as a priority. It's usually the Librarian and/or Vanessa that are the culprits here but Johan can heal too. Basically if a Sister model heals (even with full Wd), every Sister model heals. It makes their 7 Wd pity-party go a LONG way.

Fortunately 10T have a lot of very fast models to deal with hiding healers like Katanaka Snipers, Guild Pathfinders, and a lot of the masters themselves. A counter charge is 100% the way to go but a Vik double team can leave your counter whimpering because there is still the rest of the crew to cope with, and yes a lot of points will go into healers but Outcasts have access to some great hitters at low cost to flesh out their numbers or big beasties to add to the hurt with support or direct damage. That's why healers are high priority targets.

If you take the healers out even midling offensive models pose a very real threat to either Viktoria and you can turn some of the panic Viks incite back on them. The best tactic I think against Viks is to force an over-extension by hanging back with the majority of your crew (shooting lists are obviously pretty good at this but you need melee potential) this makes the Viks main goal of getting into Melee very attractive and may make even experienced players fall into the lure of an over-extended charge.

If you're using Misaki she may be very cool with Disguise as mentioned above but Bisento will kill stuff quicker, though that's not necessarily a good thing if she's in the open without Misdirection targets. Anyway, she can hunt healers on her own very effectively especially if you're carrying Misdirection and stay around models to force Vik counters to hurt themselves while the rest of the crew can hang back and pick off the enemy. Obviously you can't wait back too long with the rest of your crew because objectives need completing but that Alpha-Strike a Turn too late or early messes with the Viks play style.

There is no real way to stop a Vik alpha-strike taking one or a few things out but you can use that temptation to go big to your advantage.

I'd rather take two or three minions and one of them, than both. More bodies on the table is better in my view, I don' disagree that scheme runners aren't great as he bigger percentage of a crew.

Yu is still better at running schemes and, as mentioned, can add Fast to a Master. So, I don't think the Emissary is the death of him. Both are great but not sure I'd run them together. That's a lot of points to spend on support models!

I think it'll be fine for the most part. I do worry about her and Rusty Alice or Hamelin with their anti-charge Auras. That might make life quite difficult. I don't know it's not the end of the world but will be super annoying.

I agree with Ben, Yan Lo doesn't need to spend an entire Activation and a model to get his Chi up. I mean, it's a good tactic but I find once you're into the game he has more than enough to go around. I would say that for the tactic, Komainu is worth the extra point. You can do your severe twice and kill him for 4 Chi in an activation or leave him alive to keep your model count healthy. It seems very card intensive though.

Honestly, I have found that Yan Lo is the ULTIMATE Scheme-runner hunter. He can Lightning Dance them into bad positions or just hit them with his Spirit Barrage that just gets better over time. What's weird about his sub-par damage track is that people either rationalise that there's no point to cheat because the damage isn't so bad, or they do cheat and you have Ca 8 and will almost always force through some weak damage. It also makes targeting big tough tank hitters with low Df pretty useful. To get back on topic, he hits harder than you might think just because of the psychology behind taking the lowish damage and the massive Ca. So there are a lot of opportunities to get Chi off of enemies.

It's also useful to remember that you only have to take Ascendant at the end of your activation to get the Upgrades so you benefit from Chi before you have to lower it. I know that's obvious but I think it's something you forget doing crew planning and reading his card.

I like to take two Rail Workers and the Emberling. If you have to have the Scrap, the Emberling can provide. But you also have living constructs in the Rail Workers and they are murder machines with their damage track and resilience. So they have to be dealt with and when they are, you get a Komainu or Ashigaru out of the result. Both of which are great for attrition. Also, does Hard Worker not give a (0) too? I can't see Yu gaining all that much from it though. I've not really played with Wings of Wind but I can imagine it benefiting Mei even without Yu as she can push her slower crew around.

On the Low River Monks, I find them very cool but they are very situational. I would love it if they were Hard to Kill, taking 2 or 3 of them then would make them really great at attrition then. Otherwise, I must say Chiaki is better for Condition removal in most crews and my Shenlong is pretty much always packing Low River Style for the Defensive buff that makes Misdirection ridiculously likely to trigger, so I don't need the condition removal for him. Sensei Yu is too expensive a lot of the time but Chiaki brings healing into the mix as was mentioned before and she is faster and more survivable than the monks. Perhaps if they could also heal other models. A lot of the time they just don't seem to offer enough to get them off my shelf I think especially because of the 1" no Cg range too, compared to either of the other means of condition removal they are lacking and they are no where near as good as Tengu at Scheme running, I reckon they need a little buff.

People complain about the High River Monks but I think they are solid for their points and my opponents have felt the same. Low River though need a minor buff to make them worthwhile in more than just one Shenlong trick.

On 23/05/2016 at 5:39 PM, Fetid Strumpet said:

My guess is the Corpse Candles are those undead angler fish looking things that were part of the preview some time back that someone reposted on the second page of the Titania preview thread.

Disagree, reckon those look very Fae. Granted, undead, bloated, and tortured Fae but still, more Fae than Revenant with the butterfly wings and firefly booty.

OK just making sure!

Huh!? I though you had to cast Disciple, then you get to perform the Master's (0) which itself has a duel that needs to be done. Doesn't say anything about ignoring the requirements of the spell you're casting in Disciple. Unless there's a rule or FAQ on it somewhere?

The crew looks decent!

I would definitely agree that switching out Johan for Chiaki may be a good move. She doesn't hit hard but she can remove conditions, heal, push models off of objectives, and turn things Insignificant. She has a lot of utility and you don't need much more killing in a Misaki crew.

In my opinion Shang is useless, I find him way to slow to heal and 3ss a lot for Rush of Magic, but people vary which is fine.

Are you putting Hidden Agenda on to save soulstones and still work on Show of Force? Been meaning to try it.

I liked her before but if you are using Gaining Grounds, Yamaziko is AMAZING you can get masters to discard a lot of cards because all the schemes start unrevealed and Smoke Grenades makes her far more survivable.

Personally, I agree wholeheartedly on taking Recalled Training over almost anything but especially Cutpurse. I used to be a non-believer but since trying it out on a number of models, it really lives up to the hype. In connection with that, I also used to believe a 4ss pool was good for Misaki, and it is, but a 2/3ss pool is absolutely deadly for her to play the assassin role. The play is to set a target up for her to kill, having hopefully already stalked it you'll have A LOT of attacks. If you have a high Crow use your first stone for one to Trigger Decapitate, then burn your second for a Crow and you have an automatic Decapitate Trigger. If you don't, burn both on the first attack for extra  and a Crow for the auto Trigger. It's really effective and then with the extra  for a  to Df to get Misdirection firing because the opponent will have almost no cards left after the Decapitate madness.

So I have a bit of a weird question. The Lazy Sunday test says: "...or gain the Slow Condition." Now what I am wondering is, if it is Immune to conditions can a model choose this option? I am wondering based on the wording "Resting in the Blues" that says: "If it gained the Slow Condition, it heals 3." My point is a model can't "gain Slow" if it is immune to it, so can't choose the option, right? Or not right?

I agree that if you want to get Locomotion off it's more an issue of Tomes but it might be cool to try Vent Boiler.

Might be nice to try out Vent Boiler, you can use Kamaitachi Turn 1 to get a lot of burning onto the Golem. Maybe better to push the Rail Golem before charging with the Monks given they can get some way up the board in the Turn. So about 9 Burning which I believe is 5 Burning in splash (rounded up) which you can improve early Turn 2. Obviously best to try waste cards with the rest of your crew first so that failure of the duel is more likely. But it seems like a high investment when the average Wk is 5 so only needs 7's to pass.

6 hours ago, Adran said:

well that 10 ss gives 8 activations rather than 10, which has no effect on the effectiveness at all. Getting 1 or 2 activations after your opponent is finished is what most people are after, so since this would still be having an entire typical crew activating before you finish the rat related activations, it does do nothing to solve the problem raised. 

True though this is also why I said Obedient Wretches are as much a part of the problem. Anyway, it's redundant given Icemyn's talked me around. Rats being unhirable helps a lot and Wretches only hirable by Hamelin. My worry is that making the Wretches (2) Action Summon only one Rat is necessary because hiring two Wretches amounts to 4 Rats which starts the cycle again. Granted they are slow but still able to Summon a Rat King and start the waste of activations, if not bring out Killjoy quite as effectively but given your opponent's crew will likely be out-activated and Killjoy has a decent threat range, it doesn't seem to stop much.

I don't know Hamelin but it's the same problem, right? Or is it not an issue against Hamelin that he gets to out-activate everything first before activating anything important? It also seems superfluous to say he can't hire rats when he gets them for the same price plus an extra activation from a Wretch.

With Yu and Wandering River you can get Shenlong 10" up and Fast before he even activates. It should be enough to keep a crew that relies on staying close together to really struggle getting through his Defenses or leave his Ml Range. Take Focus and Defensive in his Activation and you should be golden. They might kill him but each Duel he wins with Low River ups his chances of hitting Misdirection and each time you hit Misdirection he is going to have a tough choice to make. All that and in your turn he can just heal up and start again. Not just reiterating my point, I'm saying that you can keep a crew like Hoffman's off objectives from Turn 1 with this tactic... doesn't work as well against other bubble masters like Pandora or Brewmaster because they hit Wp more than Df but the Hoff is all about hitting Df hard.

If that sounds like risking too much for your master, consider two Guild Pathfinders and two Clockwork Traps. They've served me really well against Hoffman in the past dishing out slow and hitting the ignore armour Trigger.

Separating models from Hoffman's power loop range helps a lot and Shenlong has a lot of Pushes to accomplish that. Or with all his Defensive from Low River Style and Misdirection he can really keep the bunched up Hoffman all together and unable to do much while you run around completing objectives.

1 hour ago, Icemyn said:

If you hire 3 rats and a wretch you are only cutting out 2 activations from the cycle. Practically doing nothing. 

If I were to make a lasting solution that doesn't impact anyone but Hamelin, and only minorly, it would be this:
Rats are unhirable, Wretch is only hirable by Hamelin.
It's the least amount of errata solves all of the problems people are having while being non-intrusive to the more casual players.

I disagree it is nothing but perhaps not enough. Is it the case that this is not still an issue if Hamelin is capable of the technique? I understand that it is worse where other masters are concerned but would it not still be NPE to face Hamelin doing the same? If it's not an issue (or at least it is only NPE facing it the first few times because players don't know the master e.g., Molly) then I endorse your idea wholeheartedly. If it is then I think some minor adjustment to either or both the Rats and Wretches needs to happen.

I think forcing chain activations helps. 6 rats becomes 3 activations. It's not nothing but without the ability to bring as many as Hamelin can to the table, the investment is not as worthwhile. Maybe giving Obedient Wretches/Rat Catchers Crows should be something Hamelin then does to get rats out more easily.

7 minutes ago, Runeman said:

A perhaps too radical solution to this problem might be to give the rats a special rule stipulating that if you are able to activate a rat, then you must do so, and let Hamelin ignore that rule. That way taking several rats leave you open to alpha strikes, but taking one or perhaps two would still not be too much of a liability, as long as they were killed off rather early in the game. This might not help at all against more defensive opponents.

I was thinking something similar like making rats suffer when they start their activation apart and then forcing them to Chain Activate. E.g.:
"Scurry and Swarm: This model gains the Slow condition if it activates more than 3" away from another friendly Vermin model. At the end of this model's activation, if there are any other friendly Malifaux Rats in play that have not yet activated, one must activate as a Chain Activation."

Maybe Hamelin should then ignore the Ability.