graeme27uk

Wouldn't call Hamelin's card control massive....

Considering the importance and versitility of soulstones, a Cache of 0 does sound harsh. I get the idea fluff-wise, but then I am not sure whether or not the master/crew compensates for this. I know people say so, but when compared to other masters, the addition of a soulstone cache, even a relatively small one, means they are more flexible and reliable; something outcast masters lack.

There are already precidents for swarm-style things. Arcanist arachnids (the small ones) can break off or combine to make a larger swarm. Could you not use this? So that if you have enough rats around you can get a new "rat swarm" model which would have better stats. And, as has been suggested before, make a rule that says rats don't eat other rats.

This is true, so I guess you can happily sac one Stolen per turn, one rat per turn. Summon the Stolen back and still have 2 AP left. The Obedient Wretch seems pretty useful as a totem. But are any other totems worth considering? What about the Effigies? ---------- Post added at 08:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:15 PM ---------- That would be a big change. I would imagine Canine Remains would be a stand in instead of rats....

I see the infinite-rat-loop out-activating shinanigans as a cheap trick that isn't what the designers intended. I have not stooped to do it even though it would be pretty easy to pull off. Unless that is the way that Hamelin IS intended to play. If so, then wouldn't giving him a bonus ot the initiative in some way be less "cheesy"?

Stolen are "made" for sacrificing. Though still not sure how you can afford multiple sacrifices per turn. Sure you can get one Stolen back but one Stolen does not compensate, so you will end up with a crew that is getting smaller. Sacrificing rats doesn't spawn new rats, so your swarm would get smaller each turn if you used them as the sacrifice cost. The only way around this would be to get rats spawning from the enemy once you get there. I also guess Hamelin wants to build up his control hand as large as he can in the first turn as after that his card generation gets a bit less reliable. So, to MP, where do you get your sacrifice targets from?

Isn't it wise to always keep at least one Stolen out so that Hamelin can respawn? So what other tips do you have for playing Hamelin himself? What other minions would work with him (without being cheesy like the Tot list)?

An interesting point came up and I'd just like clarification. Can you use a spell that attacks and then summons something if you are already at the summon limit? Best example: Leveticus and Entropic Transformation. If he already has 2 Hollow Waifs out can he still use the spell to target living models? Would he get a Hollow Waif and replace on of the ones already out, or would he just sacrifice the target with no summon effect?

Why do all Outcasts have a SS cache of 0? Is it purely fluff reasons, or is there a game balance issue? Does having a cache of 0 have noticeable effects on the Outcasts compared to other factions (besides having to use SS points to get soulstones for use in game... )? Would giving them a cache dramatically affect balance or are they compensated enough in other ways?

I think there were a few things in that game that were forgotten or whatever. Leve and Hamelin have rules on rules on rules...... brain-ache. Still, its a learning process and next time I have some other things I would like to try with Hamelin. Still like his fluff regardless..... and his avatar (model) is great! Not as many blight counters as I would have thought though..... Wonder if I should play him next time if anyone is willing?

Am I right in thinking that models with the Spirit characteristic do not block movement, so friendly models can move through them and vice versa. They block movement to enemy models as normal. The only restriction is that you cannot end your movement on top of a model. I am sure I read this in the errata...

I don't have the v3 Leveticus card, so I may be wrong. But, is there any way that Leveticus can turn Rats into SPA's if there is a Rat Catcher or Hamelin within 6" for Voracious Rats (VR)? 1) Death's Touch - this would kill the rat so spawning another from VR 2) Desolation - would kill and respawn rats 3) Necrotic Unmaking - Kills rats, so spawning another rat and no SPA as nothing else can be summoned from the kill 4) Unnatural Wasting - would not kill a rat anyway 5) Entropic Transformation - would sacrifice a rat, so another would not spawn, but would not summon a SPA as the rat is not a Construct. At most it would summon a Hollow Waif up to the max allowed. So as such there is no way of creating SPA's from rats with VR in effect. Or am I missing something?

Hello all, I don't have the v3 Leveticus card, so I may be wrong. But, is there any way that Leveticus can turn Rats into SPA's if there is a Rat Catcher or Hamelin within 6" for Voracious Rats (VR)? 1) Death's Touch - this would kill the rat so spawning another from VR 2) Desolation - would kill and respawn rats 3) Necrotic Unmaking - Kills rats, so spawning another rat and no SPA as nothing else can be summoned from the kill 4) Unnatural Wasting - would not kill a rat anyway 5) Entropic Transformation - would sacrifice a rat, so another would not spawn, but would not summon a SPA as the rat is not a Construct. At most it would summon a Hollow Waif up to the max allowed. So as such there is no way of creating SPA's from rats with VR in effect. Or am I missing something?

Just removes the word "summon" which is already an in-game term/mechanic.

It makes sense.... old women need sponge baths to! Or nurses to distribute their pills....

Would it not be easier to just reword the Voracious Rats so that it does not say summoned. Could not be placed either, so would need some other wording. Then all you would have to say is that when something is killed within the VR range, a new rat is created but counts as having already activated on the turn that it appears. Hence it would get over the endless activations, and AP abuse as well, but still allow for rats to appear. Something like.... Voracious Rats: When this model or a model within 6" of it is killed, one Malifaux Rat is generated in base contact with the model before it is removed from play. The newly generated Malifaux Rat counts as having activated that turn, though can activate as normal in subsequent turns. The model does not generate Counters of any kind. No other models can be summoned as a result of the model being killed.

Leveticus has the potential to summon lots of SPA's relatively easy and cheaply. Nicodem the same for MZ's. So what mechanic makes Hamelin different to them?

So if the unending rat issue was solved (as in MagicPockets post) then Hamelin would be no worse or reviled than Leve?

So since Hamelin seems to be in for the cuddle bashing, should Leve be in for some Cuddling as well as he can do similar things to Hamelin, come back from the dead, etc... If not, what is the different between Levie and Hamelin that means Levie is considered "ok".

I can see this working and making him easier for both sides. You kill any model that has yet to activate and it loses its activation. This means that the same would happen with rats, the only different being that the rat is still around to activate next turn. So killing a rat within the VR aura would not actually kill the rat, it would just stop it from activating that turn. I'd also go with keeping it simple. The more exceptions you have then the more complex play becomes.

So the best way to deal with Leveticus is: 1) Canine remains instead of rats initially to reduce the effect of him sacrificing hordes of rats. Though this would just slow him down as eventually this is going to happen. 2) Use Irresistable Lure to draw his Waifs out of place (would need a high card with their high WP) and also draw in his SPA's eventually into base contact for the damage.

Has anyone got any alternative/additional models that they suggest would be good for Canine Remains? I am guessing the undead dire wolves from GW would be too big. I know Twilight Games do a bag of 100 zombie dogs for their Zombie!!! game, though they are only half and inch high so maybe too small..... plus not sure of the quality. Other models I have seen are either in larger sets and so not viable or not that great quality. Any ideas?

OK, so now I need to invest in various Canine Remain models of sorts... just to add variety does anyone know of any other miniatures that are suitable?

Leve was the one sacrificing rats with Entropic Transformation. With him being able to cast it twice per turn, it chopped through rats relatively easily. Not being able to respawn them was the real killer. Also having Claim Jump meant that both crews were gunning for the centre of the board so stuff ended up in range. As far as I am aware, using any of Leve's other spells would kill a rat, hence just causing the rat to respawn with no other summoned model (no SPA's). Hence Entropic Transformation becoming the spell of choice. ---------- Post added at 02:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:11 PM ---------- I thought that death removed any effects, so whilst Leve would be able to come back significant again we could just rinse and repeat. So it would force Rusty to attack Leve which means she would not be attacking someone else. Voracious Rats states that it stops any other models being summoned from a kill.

This would work, and would be relatively easy with needing a 7+. Only this is models can't walk through each other, so I would need to position Hamelin carefully. Need to also work out the best targets for sacrificing as most of Hamelin's best abilities require sacrifice. I am assuming Stolen are best as he can get one back each turn. Rats again would suffer from not returning, so I guess they are of limited sacrificial use. Still... I would need quite a few Stolen I guess for those castings of "Understand the Soulless". Just out of interest... does this work. To take Leveticus out of the game. If I made Leveticus Insignificant. Bullystates that Hamelin cannot be targetted by Insignificant models... so if I also hit Leveticus with Inevitable Truth, then all of Leveticus' spells would have to target Hamelin, though Leveticus can't actually target Hamelin, so is rendered useless. Since Leveticus needs to use his spells to kill himself, or at least quickly, then Leveticus would be stuck hanging around for a while which would ruin his game a bit.