Smokey616

Whoah!! Easy tiger! I'm sorry if my comments insulted you but I assure you that was not the intention and nothing written was to be taken so personally... While we are on the subject of first posts you might consider that the final line was something along the lines of "nice write up dude!" or words to that effect... And if I was trying to be personal I would have said something along the lines of "what a cack article full of untruths"... I kinda liked the article and said so... Nothing personal intended...

As for "missing the stitched" thing, although a reference to future contributions was made... It is however difficult to make allowances for this when it is as yet non existent...

Just because you say you're going to do it... Does not mean I'm going to be patient about it or take it into consideration when putting forward an opinion that you say is the same as yours

In summary sorry for upsetting you

Peace out

Maybe so... Although simple maths points out that same cards divided by more models equals less card per model, therefore less chance of having the cards to help your newly summoned models...

Perhaps fair was an incorrect selection of word and I maybe should have opted for 'balanced', when the matter summarised was "spent too many high cards summoning, having problems supporting summoned horde"... And I'm afraid I disagree... I believe the reason the dreamer mechanic changed was to provide more balance to a massively broken master...

And I also believe that resource management is a hugely vital "skill to learn", given the subject both the quoted articles centre on, and that these posts are taken as read and not in anticipation of some enlightening "shenanigans" that will be processed in the future... Yes there is more than six cards vs six cards in a game of malifaux... And perhaps after the dreamers activation you are faced with say 3 cards against the opponents 6 with more to protect... In that case it's nothing to do with 6 card vs 6 cards... It's now more to do with "half of my cards gone on summoning, half left to help everything else"... Working with really simple probability here, and not much else. And that was the point I was trying to make... The more you summon the less help with twisting fate they are going to receive... Which as you've already said the opposite is a valid point for "LCB dreamer"... Why is the antithesis not relevant for summoning dreamer?

Something you touch out but has really been pretty clear to me is how trying to Summon affects what cards you have available to Cheat with for your fighty guys.

I'm always thrilled when I get those high cards and immediately begin considering what I can summon and what I need to summon...then I see that I'm likely going to have a tough fight or two on the upcoming turn and want to have some cards to cheat with to help win those fights.

Very often I find myself having a great hand, summoning lots of cool things, then getting my teeth kicked in when my opponent's meanies have high cheat cards available and I don't.

This really became apparent to me when I started experimenting with Jacob and Woke Up With A Hand. It's nice to have high cards available for Jacob to shoot someone in the face with his Brilliance Bazooka!

Forgive me if it was touched on in there, but I thought the lack of high cards to actually fight with a significant consideration when playing Summony Dreamer.

Thanks for an awesome article! Loving it!

True... But then if you play any crew your resource management is an important part of victory/failure/effectiveness... Bare in mind that once you've got round to summoning your awesome 15ss summoned boost to your crew, the crew is still working off the same hand size and to that extent, can still only cheat the same number of times. So of course a lot of your summoned horde isn't going to get the support...

Seems fair to me considering how effective a master he can be when used effectively... Serious crew boostage from turn 1

That said I can see his point... It is rather abusive. These days, for me anyway, chompy is no longer the be all and end all of the dreamer crew. With the added stipulations to bringing out chompy, it kinda forces a more strategic standpoint when bringing him out and when to leave him/dreamer exposed out of activation order. Which I believe is both a detriment and a blessing in that it brings all kind of new feinting and baiting ideas while at first appearing to just limit them.

Didn't night terrors used to be nightmare spirits?

I kind of doubt that we will be seeing any non-Neverborn Nightmares for the time being as the Dreamer does not have any ability that lets him hire nightmares regardless of faction. So if they wanted to make it work with the Dreamer they would have to add something to the new model's card stating he can hire it, something they have been trying to avoid in M2E. Otherwise he would only be able to summon them with Dreams of Pain.

But then again, I suppose that kinda fits his flavour... A nightmare that none of the neverborn can hire... Except the cute blonde kid from earthside... Some kids have strange dreams

Tht said the slow makes no difference in this case because the dreamer would have already activated and wouldn't get another activation anyway... And if brought out with (0) sleep my child, he doesn't get slow anyway... Just no activation the second time round

Ah right! I see... You are going off chompy being the first (out of dreamer and chompy) to activate that round? Can see how it would work that way round, although I don't like the idea of leaving dreamer unburied with slow (If no student), with the opponent to take his activation, right where you have just needed chompy...

Viable tactic, and because of the scope of a complete tactica, well worth a mention. Although for me, a very scary thing to attempt. Really don't like leaving the dreamer exposed out of activation order anywhere never mind somewhere where chompy has jus needed to be... Unless of course he solved the problem

Has anyone spotted anything that hands out the nightmare ability?

you can activate the dreamer then get +4 wakening then bring out chompy hit 3 times and then bring back the dreamer. How ever the dreamer would not be able to activate a second time. I think he was trying to say you cant do it.

That's exactly what I figured, but then I didn't notice why Adran pointed out about it being a new chompy... One activation per seperate chompy summon

awesome write up dude! just one thing that i could be very wrong about anyway...

You wrote:

Good memoirs guys! Keep up the good work

Is this true ? that only a small piece of the base need to be within X everytime a skill say "within" ? I always thought it was the complete base that need to be within.

Yep that's true... Unless the card/ability states; "completely within" then only a small part needs to be in there... "Completely" means that no part of the model in question can be outside the radius

Lies you can summon teddy with the dreamer it just takes set up and 2 of 54 cards in the deck.

Wow! I've been searching for a way to summon a teddy with the dreamer but it is my understanding that he can't without somehow gettin a bonus to his casting...

How do you do it?

It is good to have variety to our play style, and AoE crews causee a shift in mine every time. First, don't bunch up! By spreading out, you're forcing your opponent to select targets more carefully...and also means that we have to play more of a sneak attack game. Second, your table should have blocking terrain...use it! Can't stress this one enough. They can't blast what they can't see, so use those buildings and dense forest segments to your advantage. Your sneaky nightmares creep up behind trees and buildings and attack when the timing is right.

Additionally, I have a tendency to take Lazarus and Killjoy when facing an AoE heavy list. Is a huge point sink, yes...but you're summoning the rest, right? Both are a considerable threat if not dealt with, and are more resilient than the rest of the crew. Lazarus gives range that we normally wouldn't have...stick him next to a stitched, and you can Auto Fire for three shots, then Assimilate to Gamble the target as well. It hurts.

Nice though... I'm gonna give Lazarus a run out with the dreamer this weekend

And I use the twins more like an offensive edge... The ability to just pluck them from thin air for a spell can be a game throwing edge at times... Not saying you can't drum them up to take some flak... But sprung in the right situation those two can cause serious problems

That's what I mean... Yeah it's a viable defence option when having to resort to something... But he has so much at his disposal it seems strange to plan a black blood bomb... Especially when alps still exist... And exceedingly considering the power he can muster with other means

So pass on the action, originally targeting the dreamer, to a lelu/liletu bodyguard (within 3") and expect your dreamer to not be blasted by your own black blood?! Not my favoured tactic I must be honest...

Obviously it all depends on board position... But to keep your dreamer within 3" of lelu/liletu (to get the defence trigger and use as a bodyguard) and expect this instance to be a viable tactic in avoiding damage from your own black blood, just seems like causing trouble for yourself.

Ok you may be in range (2") for a black blood on the opposition caused by his own attack... But it seems like a lot of risk for a small amount of damage. And as a result not an idea you want to be perusing as a means to further you're position in a game... Rather a nettle in the wrist if they try slapping you...

I suppose I'm too much of a miser to justify 2 dam in an aura for the pay off of; discarding an appropriate suit (if applicable), taking damage on lelu/liletu... And most importantly, the enemy being that close to the dreamer in the first place

Someone targets dreamer.... He passes it off to a daydream... No fear of black blood?

Well that depends on if the new target has black blood or not surely?

Well, a model with Black Blood could do splash damage when the Dreamer sends attacks towards it. Though you'd want to make sure Dreamer doesn't get hit by the Black Blood himself.

I think Lelu and Lilitu are the only Nightmares with Black Blood built in, though a Black Blood Shaman could hand it out to someone like Teddy. (And, for that matter, could provide it to Dreamer so he isn't harmed by the splash damage. Though he'd lose the buff if he ever woke up Chompy.)

Stitched Together could potentially trigger Rotten Contents when hit. And, for that matter, could gain Reactivate if they get dropped to 1 Wd. (And could potentially heal above 1 Wd as soon as they Activate near the Dreamer.)

The very reason the dreamer should be surrounded by 3 daydreams most of the time

The dreamer is target gold! If you can get a clear and unquestioned shot at him then your opponent has made a mistake or he wants you to go for the dreamer for some reason... Be it to entice you into a trap or just to make you think he is setting one...

The ability to keep summoning cheap nightmares to take the flak for him pretty much makes him a questionable target at best. Also I feel that this level of "protection", for a master, is awesome... And not many other masters can just pass off attacks ( guaranteed bodyguard scheme ) the way the dreamer can... At the start of this post I was very much in the "oh no! The dreamer has been neutered!" Camp... After readin the sage advice given on this post by the awesome henchmen ( ratty, static, Adran and others) and a few games with him applying this advice, I now rank him among my favourite masters along side seamus and douggie... He is by no means as stoopidly powerful as his 1st ed counterpart, but he plays in a more thoughtful and equally dangerous ambience while keeping a massively versitile modus operandi.... Don't fret that ya can't "do funky tricks" when someone targets your dreamer... Revel in the fact that that you can pass it off to a daydream or three... Then summon them all next turn

It is an awesome attack... Although for me it's worked really effectively perhaps twice to that great of an extent... My group got wise to it fast and as a result finding application can be a problem... Chompy tends to be a nice reason for the opposition to group together though... As does teddy

That said I can understand why say a canine remains might have problems with paying the extra inch

For low walls, I've quite often just said they take 1" extra if you cross them. It's not in the rules, but it's very fast in practice, and stops any confusion.

As with any terrain, the important thing is to discuss before the game what things represent. Because when you have a VP or model in the balance is not the best time to discuss whether a wall blocks movement or not.

I agree. We also use the "extra inch" method when it comes to small ht 1 walls/fences. It does work real quick and slick... Dependent on what crews people are playing, and whether both players are happy with it, we sometimes still play the breakable terrain rules too... I think the important answer to the argument at the time was, "You try telling killjoy or chompy that he can't boot a hole in the puny shed"

You can't have too much cuddling or hugging...

You've obviously never met my other half