Keegantir

In a proper Gaining Ground tournament it does I'm afraid. You are allowed a pool of models 20ss more than the game size (i.e. a 55ss pool for 35ss games) and that doesn't leave enough scope for outcast minions for two diferent masters. That's Oshova's point about synergy, with every other faction you can take 55ss of models which will comfortably work with multiple masters, with outcasts it's one master only.

You are correct. I have never played in a Gaining Ground tourney, so I had not thought of it that way. Ya, as an outcast, you are stuck with one Master, while everyone else can have more than one. I think I would go with Hamelin in that situation, though I could make it work with Viks. I would not take Levi, but there are also many other Masters that I would not take.

I find that Outcasts come out worst in tournaments, unless they are fixed list tournies (not how Malifaux was meant to be played). This is due to them having the least synergy between masters, so you're either buying lots of Hamelin models, or Viktoria models . . . etc. Whereas, with the other factions there is a lot of synergy between the different master's models. (Especially Guild).

I disagree on the tourney point, but agree on the synergy point.

Yes, Outcasts does not have much synergy between masters, but that does not stop you from making crews for each master, and having each of them for different strategies.

As far as tourneys go, I won my last tourney, beating good players playing both Kirai and Dreamer using just the Viks. The tourney before that I got third, losing only to a Dreamer list where the only model left alive at the end of turn 3 was LCB. Another Outcast player won that tourney using Viks, Hamelin, and Levi, all one round each. One of the advantages of using only a few crews is that you learn them very well. I know exactly what the Viks can do, where they can get to, and how to execute it.

I feel that Levi is even better than the Viks, but as has been said, he has some real bad match-ups. Due to this, I think if given the option, I would always take Hamelin or Viks against Neverborn. Hamelin is better against Dreamer, and maybe Pandora, and Viks are better against Lilith and Zorida (guessing on this last one because I have not had the chance to play against her).

Sure, he can get to the opponents deployment zone with 3 models, which can have fast and melee expert in the one activation. They will have to appear in base contact with him, so probably spend the fast move getting into melee with an opponent (Even if the first doesn't have to, all the others will probably have to) We're down to 7 marionette attacks (maybe 8 if you're lucky with opponets placement and Terrain) and 3 wicked doll attacks.

You've got 2 more fast wicked dolls who can each get 2 attacks for the next 2 activations.

Just as a personal suggestion, for the marionettes left behind, don't pass - move them 5" towards where you intend to end Collodi. Might get them close enough to help next time. Or move them to a safe point

Ya, the positioning can be dicey, and you MAY have to spend an AP to move with the Marionettes. The Wicked Dolls, on the other hand, do not have to move into base with Collodi, only within 2", so that leaves a lot more range to hit things with. The key is to place Collodi in a position where BtB Marionettes, and 2" away Wicked Dolls can all hit stuff.

As far as moving them after Pull Strings, that is a great idea. With that you can guarantee that only one Marionette will be left behind.

How is Collodi getting 4AP here? He doesn't give himself (+1)Fast if that's what you're thinking.

Ya, I missed that auras and pulses do not also affect the model doing the aura/pulse.

It still only removes 2-3 attacks at the end. It doesn't change what he can do movement wise.

I love using the Desperate Merc, but you really only want one of them unless you are taking them for cheap corpse/blood tokens.

And that is where many people disagree. I love them in non-grow lists, and find that they are almost always worth their points. The idea proposed in this thread of getting one damage on them makes them even better. Very rarely do I still have one on the board past the third turn, and they are still worth it. Just For My Family on turn 3, if they are still alive, for some pretty nasty killing machines.

I agree, it looks wrong.

It takes 3 Marionette activations to move Collodi into an opponents deployment (2 for diagonal deployment)

Pull Strings is only once per turn. Sure, the third one can get 2-3 attacks against something, and you'll have a 4th with 4 attacks still to activate, and can then bring in Wicked dolls on their own activation (with Fast and melee expert if you wanted).

You also leave a pile of Marionettes behind, costing you the potential to alpha strike next turn.

Don't get me wrong, Its viable and scary, especially if you have a few weak but valuble models (Hollow waif and daydreams spring to mind...)

You have it correct there. You also only leave 2 Marionettes behind, and if you do it right, you can attack models, that your opponent has already activated, with the second one, and it may still be within 6" for next turn (big may there).

It works like this:

Collodi activates inside a cluster of 4 Marionettes and 3 Wicked Dolls. Gives them all Fast. Gives 2-3 Marionettes and 3 Doll Melee Expert (You need two 9+ in your hand and at least one needs to be a :masks, but two :masks will get everyone listed, otherwise less things get Melee Expert). Doll Friend on one of the Wicked Dolls, so that it activates after him. His activation ends having spent all 4 AP that he can.

First Marionette activates. Moves 5" Forward. Pull String until the back of its base is at the extreme end of 8" forward. Collodi moves in front of the Marionette (a move of just over 10". This puts Collodi a little over 16" up the board). Pass the rest of its AP and end its activation.

Second Marionette activates. Retract, then repeat what the first Marionette did. If there is an enemy at the end of the Pull Strings you still have 1 AP for an attack or 2 AP if you had two masks for giving Melee Expert earlier. If not, you pass the rest of your actions. This puts Collodi a little over 26" across the board, depending on terrain.

Third Marionette activates. Retract then Pull Strings puts Collodi 33" across the board (you will probably not need to move the full as you do not need to be in your opponents deployment zone, but just outside of it, where your opponents models are), and the Marionette still has 2 AP and Melee Expert for 4 attacks with Flurry, all in your opponents deployment zone.

Fourth Marionette activates. Retract. Pull Strings if you still need to move Collodi around some. This leave the Marionette 2-3 AP and Melee Expert, for 3-5 attacks, all in your opponent deployments zone.

The Wicked Doll that is Doll Friended now activates. Hag's Toys up, and has 4 AP for attacks.

That all activates together via Holding the Strings and Doll Friend. You still have 2 more Wicked Dolls to activate after your opponent activates, and if your opponent does not one shot Collodi (which you will be spending stones like candy to keep alive), you will get them into your opponents deployment zone via Hag's Toys. You left a total of 2 Marionettes behind, one of them may still be at the extreme end of 6" depending on where your final Pull Strings put you. If Collodi survives the turn (even if it runs you out of stones), you are going to do some serious damage again next turn.

This entire time the other master that you took is doing their thing, setting up to play cleanup, which Levi does well with.

This is all theoryfaux, but I have seen it happen, so it can and does happen. You can also wait and do all of this second turn for even more fun, the only problem with that is that it gives your opponent a chance to spread out.

Might I suggest that the eat part just gets changed to a once per game -20.

As it is, it is barely better than the normal +5/-10, (-15 is the same thing as the +5/-10, so only the -20 is better than not doing it), and can even be worse (just a -10 with no +).

For a once per game, it should be worth it.

Additionally, doing it that way will get rid of any feelings of dishonesty.

Not that it matters now that it is over, but Vik ends with 10, as the final +5 does not count.

Editing HoarcatsPride's post to take away the + to Lady J (You do not do a + when eating).

Sword Vik - 15

Lady J - 25

And 'he' is definitely wearing a dress!

Tis a kilt!

This does not come close to making him top tier. The only reason that levi is not a top tier master is he has a number of very bad matchups. Taking collodi vs the top masters who can pick him off very easy just leaves you spending all those points on collodi instead of just taking collodi in the first place and you lose access to stitched his best model. Levi has has a number of movement tricks to do all sorts of missions.

I guess we have to disagree on this. I have seen what Collodi can do, and can say that Collodi can make nearly any master top tier, let alone Levi who is pretty good by himself. When you can first turn drop 5 models in your opponents deployment zone, with their full activation (except one of the Marionettes that used 1 AP to get there), all of which have fast, and 3 of which have melee expert, you are going to do some serious damage to anyone. Add to that that all but 2 of them can activate together, the result is an alpha strike that can be brutal.

Hmm. Well we are warmachine players who are testing the malifaux waters at the moment. How well do the boxes fair against each other without buying additional clamshells? From what i gather in order for my box of choice to function I'm required to spend a little extra.

Most boxes are pretty good with just what is in the box. You will want to pick up more models for them, but you can play just the box just fine. The exception to that is grow lists, of which Levi is one of. Lists that require a bunch of models, because you will be summoning models throughout the game. Those lists are not as good with just the box set.

Your buddy having Collodi is also going to need a bit extra. While Collodi is okay by himself, the models that come in his boxset are all cheap cost, thus you only have a 17 point crew with just the boxset. He may want to pick up the Zorida boxset, then he should be good to go, as they work excellent together.

Welcome to Malifaux. I am a Warmahordes convert myself. While I still play and enjoy Warmahordes from time to time, I find the quicker paced, shorter games, of Malifaux to be more fun.

Lady J knows that she must die to balance the scales (-10), so she hires Sword Vik to do the job (+5).

Sword Vik 35

Lady J 25

This would be my starting list too, but depending on strategy and schemes I may swap out Taelor or the Librarian and add in another Ronin or 2, Miss Demeanor, or occasionally the Student of Conflict.

I believe the Student is male, but there is a bit of androgyny going on there.

Sword Vik gets into the cat fight and goes all out on Lady J.

Card Flip: 9:masks

Lady J (-15)

Sword Vik - 60

C. Hoffman - 25

Lady J - 30

The Viks are a little harder to handle than they seem, being glass cannons complicates matters quite a bit.

At 35 SS I'd take:

The Viks

8SS Cache.

8Taelor

7Friekorps Librarian

7Misaki

5Miss Demeanor (Convict Gunslinger)

If you don't have Miss Demeanor (which is highly likely) take a Ronin.

I forgot that the Librarian was female. To amend my original post, I recommend:

Outcasts Crew - 35 - Scrap

Viktoria -- 8 Pool

Desperate Mercenary [2ss] (female version)

Freikorps Librarian [7ss]

Ronin [5ss]

Ronin [5ss]

Taelor [8ss]

I also would recommend never going without at least 1 Ronin, and I usually go with 2 or 3.

Their Avatar is awesome, but can be difficult to manifest due to both Viks having to be alive to do it.

As far as an all female Viks crew, I would do:

Outcasts Crew - 35 - Scrap

Viktoria -- 8 Pool

Desperate Mercenary [2ss] (female version)

Desperate Mercenary [2ss] (female version)

Ronin [5ss]

Ronin [5ss]

Ronin [5ss]

Taelor [8ss]

You can also throw Misaki [7ss] into the mix in exchange for a Ronin and a Desperate Merc if you want.

Edit: There is also the limited edition Convict Gunslinger [5ss] (Miss Demeanor) that is female.

Does Collodi play well in a levi list ?

Yes. Collodi puts Levi on level with the top tier masters in my opinion. It gives his list the movement shenanigans that the top tier lists have, which is one of the main things making them top tier. Killing multiple enemy models, before they even get their first activation, is the hotness.

Totals are wrong from Keegantir's post - it's +5 and -10, not the other way round. Following Nilus's post, I make it that the totals should be:

It was late and I was tired. My bad. Thank you for catching it.

*Editing this post to include the totals from Tarragon because this post took the thread to a new page.

Sword Vik - 60

C. Hoffman - 30

Lady J - 60

Sword Vik's Alt Sculpt comes out and she is wearing even less clothes. +10

Lady J gets decapitated. -5

Sword Vik - 60

C. Hoffman - 45

Lady J - 70

The Strategy is Shared Slaughter though.

Thus the Avatar of Slaughter beats all. This includes the Avatar of Justice.

Vik +5

Lady J -10

Seamus - 15

Sword Vik - 95

C. Hoffman - 70

Lady J - 65

Looks like you missed a few there ukrocky. On top of that, aka_hazard posted again inside the 16 hour lockout. The correct totals should be as follows, but please double check it.

Seamus - 55

Marcus - 25

Sword Vik - 90

C. Hoffman - 70

Lady J - 60

I assume even without burning counters this would still be true.

If a model is inflicted by paralyze in one attack and then slow on a second attack, the model would lose its next activation then be slowed on the activation after that.

QUESITON! What if a model was first slowed then before it had a chance to activate was attacked again and paralyzed. This could happen in a Collette army in theory.

Same thing for the same reason. Order that they are applied does not matter. The only thing that matters is that you skip your next activation for paralyze. That means that slow does not have the opportunity to drop off until the following turn when you get an activation.

Somehow Sword Vik got a negative for being half naked.

That is looking at it the wrong way.

Sword Vik it half Naked (+5)

This frustrates C. Hoffman (-10)

Seamus - 40

Marcus - 100

Sword Vik - 80

C. Hoffman - 70

Lady J - 60

Hamelin summons a Stolen (+5). He then sacs the Stolen to make Lady J insignificant (-10).

Seamus - 70

Marcus - 90

Sword Vik - 90

Hamelin - 40

C. Hoffman - 70

Lady J - 65