Dark Alleycat

Going back to the original thought, do you just walk away from the table? Regardless of whether a particular combo is beatable, if there are army builds out there that are totally unfun to play against, why would you spend your hobby time playing against them? And by extension, isn't it poor game design to put players in a position of not taking the most competitive lists because they want their opponent to have fun?

For me? I only walk away from the table when I have tried everything I can and the game is lost,but that is purely to ensure more time to play again. I actually have to thank Genetic for this. I played against Leveticus V2. It should be pointed out he is the only card out there with a V3 and there is a reason for that lol. anyways...I was very discouraged and Genetic wouldn't let me quit the game because he wanted to ensure he got the points for the tournament. But thanks to that I don't walk away without a fight,no matter what crew it is.

But I totally agree that no one should be given hell for not wanting to play against a certain master or list in a fun environment. I just recommend to people to try anyways,because sometimes things will click and you find a way to deal with what was scaring you and thus make you a better player.

Sue wont help against pushes. But like i said,make it a model that you dont want to have near you,and give that as the only lure target. Also consider some immune to influence models to reduce the effectiveness of that list.

And like i was saying,if they have to use all their healing ability just offsetting the lack of lelu then any damage they take will stick around,and they are not particularly durable.

If your staying outside of 2 inchs,your doing 1-2 damage tops. you arent engaging me in melee range,thus you aren't making me deal with terrifying.

Which means that I can use any and all of the varied options at my disposal to blast your very squishy alps all to hell.

Ok let me put it this way...when I face an alp bomb,this is what it looks like.an insidious madness,a doppelganger,and 9 alps. The insidious madness gives a negative flip on the terrifying check that the dreamer sets you up for. The doppelganger helps insures that the dreamer gets to go first so that you can give that negative. the 9 alps are planted around your crew so that when you activate,you die. if you live,you make a terrifying check with a negative twist so you cant cheat it. sometimes with multiple negatives. that first turn you have 3-4 negative flips on 3-4 terrifying checks.

So I would say I am facing at least as nasty if not nastier alp bombs then most. To top it off,all of those will be in defensive stance that first turn. If you spread your guys out,Chompy pops up,kills the single person and gets out. If you clump up to keep yourself safe from chompy,the alps plop down.

And ya know what...there are solutions for all of this. Does it take a few hours of consideration to do it,but you can do it. So this is the Alp bomb I have faced,how about you all post up your versions and I will tell you how I at least would dismantle it.

It is like that with any Master you play. I trust my Lilith to shut down and take out any Master after I study them and find their weakness.

Sonnia's not weak at all. She just has a wider learning curve than Perdita and Lady J.

But sorry Lenny, Sonnia is not the Top tier Master of the Guild. She's good when used right but she still has her weaknesses.

I never said she was the top tier master...I just said she has ways of dealing with the things other guild masters can have difficulties with.

And yes,with her Avatar,Fire Gamin,boy named Sue,Witchling stalkers and a handler,she will cause some hilarity.

They each heal each other 2 points, and then nekima gives them regeneration 1. so that covers the damage they cut themselves for.

Ok so they have to devote their abilities to keeping themselves alive. This means that damage done to them is going to stay on. So the Austringer pecking pair will do 2 to 10 damage a turn. Double that if you can manuever them into where they are only 12 inchs away.

Honestly the more I hear about people getting cranky about certain Masters,I keep finding more and more ways that Criid can shut those Masters down.

Well,with Ramos I would consider the Electrical creation to deal with alps. Really anything that blows up and does 2-3 damage will thin out the alps real quick. If you are facing any model that is focused completely on having the enemy right next to them,you field models that he doesn't want next to him. For collette I would start chucking birds at them,either doing magicians duel or exploding them. You can also use your mannequin's to screen your models from Alps,since they cant do a thing to them. Object 3 means the first 3 damage from any source is completely ignored. Makes it better then armor.

I would disagree with Dolomyte on one thing. in my opinion you should generally find ways to make your core models able to take on almost any situation.

And the dreamer has a very big weakness if you can take out his daydreams. Those are the key to his mobility. Also if you have a way to mess up spells,you can get some great expressions. "What do you mean the spell I need to cast to get my nightmares out has a double negative twist?...I cant Cheat that"

I've never seen an Alp Bomb that sat and did nothing. A smart Dreamer player will ignore the Executioner completely, because he can.

in favor of doing what? trying to kill the models sitting by the executioner and thus bringing them directly into its melee range? Now he can try and kill the executioner with Chompy,who will take a slow to die hit from the executioner. And then the dreamer has 7 inchs of run away space. And the rest of your crew is just hanging out ready to hand said little kid his one way ticket to destruction.

If he doesn't bring the alp bomb after the cluster of models,then it is just sitting there doing nothing but wasting points. And if he ignores that clump of models,then the whole danger of the alp bomb is completely negated,and your opponent is down however many points he spent on alps in trying to stop you.

But hey...if walking away is easier for you then figuring out how to beat it,then thats your choice and you are certainly entitled to do it. Just means more people will be convinced of the Dreamer's invulnerability and will be horribly surprised when they are proven wrong.

The only problem with the above mentioned example is your banking on the opponent making a mistake by putting a alp in melee range of a executioner. Chances are in a game against a "good" opponent there are only two models ever that would get close to him (chompy taking him out or coppelious paralizing him before he gets killed to counteract exe's s2d.

Well then that would mean that the alp bomb would be sitting there doing nothing. If your dealing with the Alp bomb you have basically two choices,keep your guys together and make him drop it on you and dismantle it,or leave your models spread out and let him kill them with chompy. Guess which one is actually feasible.

And if Chompy made the mistake of getting close to the executioner,that slow to die would really mess him up. A good dreamer player would avoid slow to die models like the plague because those stand a pretty good chance to rip them apart.

Banning models is silly.. If someone is playing models you don't like you just wait for him down a dark alley.

And what do i have to do with that sort of thing hmmm?

So let me see,this is Nekima,two Lilitus. Well,without a Lelu they will melt in a couple turns regardless,unless nekima has a give neverborn a healing flip ability she can spam. Even if she can,a pair of Austringers out of Line of sight will end up pecking out the eyes of one of them and then the other. Another hilarious option to deal with these pesky little ladies,would be killjoy,Executioner,Death marshal. You pine box the Executioner and then move the Death marshal up towards the neverborn bimbos. Either they speed things up and lure him forward,or you have to run him up. When he dies,he takes a slow to die action to summon Killjoy,and the executioner pops out like a knife weilding jack in the box.

Well,with the watcher able to get 14 inchs,21 inchs if you really wanted to be silly and use the student of conflict to give him the +1 fast instead of your master. I think really,being able to drop him out turn 1 in the middle of your enemy's deployment area would really cover it.

That about covers it really.

How do you deal with Neverborne? the same way you deal with everything else out there. you set it on fire,and you keep setting it on fire till it burns to a crisp.

Zoraida is countered quite often by the simple addition of a couple witchling stalkers. They can remove her conduit on whoever gets it,which means she has to destroy and resummon that puppet in order to get the "target in line of sight" option for reconnect. otherwise it is a model within 8 inchs. Ortega's can shrug it off as well,but most wont expect it from the witchlings. Also,advanced counterspell doesn't require it to be targeting a friendly model,its any model. Watcher as well is a good choice to help screw up her Bayou two step card manipulation.

Pandora..with her you have to remember her 12 inch threat range. Austringer and Nino are happy things here...but dont underestimate the value of Samuel. Run a witchling stalker up to hang out by Pandora,then use this combo. Have your Austringer hit from 18 inches out and then deliver orders to sammy boy. Sammy then turns and puts his first bullet into the Sorrow that is right next to Pandora,and richochet (mask trigger) a 2/3/5 flip onto pandy(1/2/4 and +1 damage from arcane hunter). Then you put the second bullet into the back of the witchling stalker and Richochet another 2/3/5 followed by a 2 damage explosion from the witchling. You can also prime the pump by having Santiago do his Leadstorm ability,which as it is a pulse,doesnt directly target anyone. there is another 4 damage to those it hits.

I am sure you can see where this ends up going. When facing Pandora dont be afraid to blast apart one of your own minions if it means getting a good smack on her in the process. Same with lilith really,if you can catch her with blasts,Richochet's and other unpleasentness,you will watch your opponent start panicking when they realize that their defense 8 wont ever matter because you never directly attack them.

Alot of times,if your playing against Zoraida,just dismantle her crew and disable her ability to affect you at will. Make Zoraida get close and watch your opponent start playing cautious all of a sudden.

Worried about incite? stay out of LOS till your ready to roll. Make use of cover just like you would if you were avoiding getting shot by nino.

Guild has a bag of tricks 3 miles deep,start using them people. There really isnt a situation that the guild doesn't have an answer for,least none I have found so far. Seriously though,if you look for it,you will see what i mean.

Ahhh,hmmm,well it has beena while since i faced the alp bomb after showing fun ways of dealign with it.

so use the executioner instead of the Peacebringer. he kills one before he dies as a slow to die,heals up and then goes and kills two more.

True. Criid doesn't need to move particularly fast. she moves up steadily,blasting the living crap out of whatever comes into view instead. If you use her as a centerpoint for a rolling wave of troops,with some screening troops to keep her safe,she can do wonders.

The alp bomb is a dangerous combo. I dont think that walking away rather then playing it is unreasonable in a non tournament situation. Simply explain to your opponent that you do not enjoy playing that list,congratulate him on a won game and go play someone else.

If you have a notion that your opponent is going to put down an alp bomb,there are a couple of things you can do. first and foremost,kill his daydreams at range. this bones dreamer players like you would not believe. Secondly,invest in death marshals if you are playing guild. slow to die scares Dreamer players for a reason...they are a glass cannon...if you get the chance to smack them before you die,they suffer.Same with witchling stalkers. 2 witchling stalkers will kill all the alps in a burst around them. Also,consider Sonnia. her inferno ability will mean that your opponent wont dare put down his alps or his dreamer because if he does they die. And your witchlings only take 1 damage from the inferno,not 3 like everyone else does.

2 death marshals,2 witchling stalkers,Executioner,Sonnia will make for a 25 point list that will do rather well against the alp bomb.

Im not saying that telling your opponent "no thanks,I dont like playing agianst the alp bomb" is unreasonable. But there are ways to beat it,and most dont require too much beyond the base box set.

I faced genetic with Ryle when he was first released. Most of my crew got the swiss cheese treatment then too. In fact...people keep saying "oh ryle never does much damage" and I keep wondering "Why am I never playing these people,rather then the ones that make Ryle into this walking machinegun of giggling death?"

Oh dont worry,I will be taking the busty redhead and adding her to my boy Seamus's collection of Ladies of Negotiable Affection.

I do think it will take some practice to get back into using him though,and will likely need his Avatar.

Guild is not the strongest in any one area. But unlike other factions...we don't really have too many 'bad' matchups...if any. We come with a bag of tricks 3 miles deep and that is a fact. Now,it is true that we are nowhere as mobile as some of the other factions. But none of them can run faster then the bullets you can sling out on a constant basis.

Sonnia does do wonders against high cast opponents,but she can still do well against any faction. The important thing to remember is that since Sonnia doesn't syngergize incredibly with her crew,you have the option to use any of the guild's models equally well,based on the situation.

Well like i said lol...It was more that he did more then take out a model,he took out my entire offensive line.

And I still maintain that if he were to not have ALL the things he has he wouldnt be overpowered for his point cost. Honestly I would love if he got his extra flip trigger and such switched around to a trigger happy like extra shot.

And it seems every time my opponent fields Ryle,that is what happens..that gigantic gun opens up and mows down my models one right after the other. Given the choice I would rather face Rami any day. When he takes multiple fireballs to the face,he at least has the decency to curl up and die.

So Koyote,have you ever considered making terrain peices on a commission basis?

Translation : do want NAO!!!!!!!

If you will remember,Santiago was dead that round before I got to activate him,otherwise I would have very happily blown Ryle straight to construct hell with the 5!!!!! high mask cards I had in my hand. I tried to use Sonnia to burn him because she ws the only vaguely combat effective model I had remaining lol. And Sonnia couldn't have put the flame wall where it would have blocked LOS to my models given how far away she was.That was the first thing I considered.

Ya know,there is a wonderful solution to dealing with worrying about lure. Granted it makes Sammy stationary till you want him to move again but still. Use his ability and trap himself. Push is still a movement effect which would mean that he couldn't move off that 50mm marker.

But if you place him centrally enough,watch the expression on the Seamus players face for great amusement.

As for Lady Justice,she deals with seamus much the same way that she deals with everyone else,by planting a gigantic sword in his face repeatedly until he falls down and stays down. Sonnia can use Flame walls to block off line of sight for his support models and make things harder for him.

Other then that,lots of Death Marshals and Family members or immune to influence models as others have said.

You can cause them to discard those counters as well. the only thing you cant remove is wound counters unfortunately. But yes,witchlings are without a doubt,at least in my mind,the premier 4 point minion for guild.