Hesky

Please ignore this post i found the answer I sought here....

Do Woes, Nephilim, Nightmares or any of the other Neverborn archetypes count as living models?

Nowhere does Deaths Embrace say that Nicodem counts as Undead for recruitment purposes. In my opinion Deaths Embrace requires Nicodem to be in play to use and he is clearly not during recruitment.

Unless a marshall expressly says hiring Nicodem in a Leveticus crew is legal I will not be adding him to the list.

From playing around a little I have discovered that without the hag and other dolls around you really dont get the most out of Wicked Dolls. My favourite combination at the moment for a 30ss is still. But then I am still fairly new to Leveticus...

Levi

Bete

Alyce

4 SPA's

and I must say, those wicked dolls are amazing, they do what your steam punks can't, which is move fast, and not be insignificant.

I think.. dont quote me as I dont have the rulebook handy. But you need 3 wicked dolls in order to remove insignificant.. Can someone confirm?

I wish I had half your talent for painting.. Seeing yours looking so good is putting me off painting my own...

That doesnt mean I dont want to see more!

Yeah the choices are amazing.. There are some fairly useless things in there of course.. But the list is here to make choosing all that much easier..

I like your style, good job! What are you expanding into next?

I already started painting Zoraida and her box set. I have lilith and a whole bunch of Nephilim assembled and ready to paint too.

Once all my neverborn are done I have Leveticus and Ophelia too! Its an addiction!

I will get some close ups when I get home in a week or two. I really need a better camera to be fair.

I found a way through her abilities and a solid way for Lilith to triumph against her.

I would like to hear about this mate. I struggle with Lilith against her.

Well I'm in the situation where i constructed a levi crew piecemeal and wound up with 2 waifs but not the one from the box set. Darn....

That kind of sucks.. I am happy knowing its a different sculpt. Certainly lessens the blow. I feel sorry for you however knowing the only way to get it is to buy the box set.. ouch.

Okay so I cant quite work something out..

If you buy the Desolate and Soulless box set you get ONE Hollow Waif and if you buy a blister pack you get TWO.

And you can only ever use 2 or 4 in scraps or brawls respectively..

So.. err... what gives?

If I have the box set then I need to buy another two and sideline one for scraps or buy another four for brawls..

Either way I have a spare Hollow Waif...

Quick spot: The Hooded Rider is 8ss. Isn't he?

He certainly is.. thats due to my lazy cut-pasting..

Changed it anyway thanks..

Coryphee can only be hired by Arcanist masters so should be moved to the second part of the list

Since you included Waifs and the Duet you might also want to include Dust Storm and Ashen Core on the list?

There's also the Grave Spirit which can be a totem for any Henchman or Master you bring along during a Brawl (since it's not master specific).

Changes done.. Well spotted....

I made all the requested changes to the list and added in all the characteristics at the top of each card for easy reference.. I do have a Microsoft Word copy of this list which I can email to players for ease on request if you might find it useful..

Hey guys,

This is no kind of Tactica or anything nor is it a recommendation of which models to use with Leveticus. As it happens I have only just bought the Leveticus box set as a side-project from my Neverborn. Seemed like a logical step for trying out some of the cool constructs available in Malifaux.

Anyway I searched high and low for a similar list due to laziness and couldn't find anything so I went through both rulebooks and made a list of everything Leveticus can recruit into his gang. So I figured I might as well post it just on the off chance somebody else might need it..

Leveticus Recruitment List:

Guild

Peacekeeper : 9 ---------------------------------------Construct, Rare 1

Guardian: 7--------------------------------------------Construct, Rare 2

Hunter: 6 -----------------------------------------------Construct, Rare 2

Ryle – Guild Pawn : 8 -------------------------------Construct, Unique, (SF: Elite Division)

Watcher: 3 ---------------------------------------------Construct

Resurrectionists

Bete Noire: 9 ------------------------------------------Undead, Unique

Canine Remains: 2 ---------------------------------Graverobber, Insignificant, Undead

Crooked Man: 4 --------------------------------------Undead

Flesh Construct: 7----------------------------------Construct, Undead

Madame Sybelle: 6 ----------------------------------Belle, Undead, Unique

The Hanged: 8 ----------------------------------------Spirit, Undead, Rare 2

Necropunks: 3 ----------------------------------------Construct, Undead

Punk Zombies: 5 -------------------------------------Undead

Rotten Belles: 4 --------------------------------------Undead

Dead Rider: 10 ---------------------------------------Construct, Undead, Unique

Guild Autopsy: 3 ------------------------------------Undead

Rogue Necromancy: 10 ----------------------------Beast, Rare 1, Undead (SF: Horror)

Arcanists

Ice Gamin: 4 ------------------------------------------Construct

Ice Golem: 9 ------------------------------------------Construct, Rare 1

Joss: 9 --------------------------------------------------Construct, M&SU Member, Unique

Steampunk Arachnid Swarm: 9 ----------------- Construct

Steampunk Arachnid: 3 ----------------------------Construct, Insignificant

Steamborg Executioner: 10 -----------------------Construct, Rare 1

Large Steamborg Arachnid: 5 ---------------------Construct, Rare 2 (SF: M&SU Asset)

Mechanical Rider: 8 --------------------------------Construct, Unique

Soulstone Miner: 6 ----------------------------------Construct, Rare 2 (SF: M&SU Asset)

Neverborn

Bad Juju: 10 --------------------------------------------Construct, Unique

Hooded Rider: 8 -------------------------------------Construct, Unique

Teddy: 9 -------------------------------------------------Construct, Rare 1

Wicked Dolls: 3 ---------------------------------------Construct, Insignificant, (SF: Doll)

Outcasts

Hollow Waif: Summoned --------------------------Insignificant, Rare 2, Soulless, Undead

Killjoy: 11 ----------------------------------------------Mercenary, Undead, Neverborn, Unique

Alyce: 8 --------------------------------------------------Mercenary, Soulless, Unique

Desolation Engine: 12 ------------------------------Construct, Undead

Steampunk Abominations: 3 ----------------------Construct, Insignificant, Undead

Ashes and Dust: 13 ----------------------------------Construct, Undead, Unique

Ashen Core: (Placed) --------------------------------Construct, Undead, Unique

Dust Storm: (Placed) ---------------------------------Construct, Undead, Unique

Jack Daw: 9 ---------------------------------------------Mercenary, Spirit, Undead

The Stolen: 3 --------------------------------------------Insignificant, Soulless, Spirit, Unique

With/Through HENCHMAN and BRAWL COMPATIBLE Masters ONLY...

Guild

C. Hoffman: Master----------------------------------Construct, Master, Scavenger

Mechanical Attendant: 3 ---------------------------Construct, Totem (C. Hoffman)

Resurrectionists

Molly Squidpiddge: 9 -------------------------------Belle, Graverobber, Henchman 5, Undead (SF: Horror)

Necrotic Machine: 2 ---------------------------------Construct, Undead, Unique (Molly Squiddpidge)

Grave Spirit: 1 -----------------------------------------Insignificant, Spirit, Totem, Undead

Arcanists

Ramos: --------------------------------------------------Construct, Master, Scavenger

Ramos may hire any number of SF: M&SU Assets available from this list.

Brass Arachnid: 2 ------------------------------------Construct, Insignificant, Totem (Ramos)

Mobile Toolkit: 3 -------------------------------------Construct, Totem (Ramos/C.Hoffman)

Coryphee: 7 --------------------------------------------Construct, Rare 2, Showgirl

Coryphee Duet: (Placed) ---------------------------Construct, Showgirl

Neverborn

Collodi: 8 -----------------------------------------------Construct, Henchman 7, (SF: Doll)

Marionettes (Through Collodi Only): 2 --------------Construct, Rare 4, (SF: Doll)

Outcasts

Hamelin the Plagued: Master ----------------------Insignificant, Master, Soulless

You may not hire ANY constructs with this secondary master...

Nix, The Bull Terrier: 7 -------------------------------Insignificant, Soulless, Spirit, Unique

I listed the Soulstone cost and any characteristics that may help with building a list. As I say this list was just for my own quick reference. But if one other person can use it, it couldnt hurt to put it up here right?

Maybe one of the better and more experienced Levi players can help me with some sort of ratings for how good each one is?

EDIT: Made changes 19/09/10

Yeah I guess that does look kind of odd. I carved the grid into the greenstuff though way back when I first did the model.. So I had to paint it the way it was.. Perhaps if I changed the white tiles to the same dirty sand colour on the other models?

Great theming for this entire lot. Fantastic use of solitary colours to single out your master too. The amount of hard work you have put in with these has really paid off.

Great work and a joy to flick through your pics...

Nice work! You might get a slightly better finish on this model by giving it a once over with a matt dulling spray. Testors Dull Coat or Humbrol Matt Spray Varnish are both very good (and cheap) and will take that sheen off your miniatures surface..

Just a snapshot of my Pandora nasties.. I have had a bit of a painting spree doing Zoraidas box and some other various bits but I finally went back and painted Candy this evening to finally finish the original box set. I put Teddy in there on the pic because it just seemed the right thing to do..

Again with the 3 legged chair example? Come on seriously...

You are doing little to convince me that they are useless. Wasting activations just to get them to link up? Nonsense.

What about all the other models in Malifaux that dont have link and dont require a piggy back ride to enemy lines..

Sorrows can still use their other abilities and then link up. Essentially this whole complaint is about not getting your sorrows delivered easily into the fray.

There is nothing Niche about the way I use sorrows. I use them much the same way as I always did. Only now with a little more patience. You are waiting for a rules marshal to tell you what deep down you probably already know. The old end time for sorrows was overpowered. It was a zero action that allowed them to follow Pandora freely across the board only to activate right beneath an enemies nose and cause even more damage. Pandora is and probably always will be my first and favourite Malifaux master and I have no problem admitting that the old rule made her a little overpowered..

I am not telling you I can have the odd fun game with Sorrows. I am telling you that I still manage to lay waste to other gangs with 3 or 4 sorrows in my own.

Rather than someone reply with a "glad you find a niche but we are all right" comment or another mention of how they play like broken furniture is there anyone else out there who can still get the best from them? They are not as good as they were I admit it but they are so far from useless that I cant see what all the complaining is about...

So I am saying this from the other side of the table. They are easy to avoid and kill and tended to slow Pandora down because he would lose his Sorrows if Pandora used Fading Memory because the link only works with Walk actions. So yes it is a ball and chain for a model with a 3" walk.

This is not entirely true.. Yes the linked model doesnt move with her during Fading Memory. But if Pandora walks at any point the sorrow will then move into contact.. And if she doesnt take a walk action at all the sorrow will move into base contact immediately after Pandora finishes her activation.. Which is the desired result she needs anyways.. I dont see how this hinders either of them

I am not looking to sell anyone on sorrows. I am merely asking people to stop complaining about how useless they are when they are clearly not. The title of this thread says it all in fact..

And what I described is not a "nitch" (niche?) as you so eloquently put it.. They are still useful and what sort of serious maneuvering of the rest of your crew are you talking about? I agree there are other models that are better but sorrows are far from a "ball and chain"

I could care less if you carry on using sorrows or not. I just want people to stop complaining just so they can have things back the way they were. They still work, they are still fun and for those players who are about having fun and not trying to build the ultimate steamroller lists are probably still a popular choice.

So yeah if you are clever and persistent enough to find a use for them go ahead and use them. I use sorrows still almost every game and I dont really have to compromise my crew to do so. You can still do almost everything with them that you used to be able to do. Only now you have to activate one before pandora if you want to take her on a serious offensive. Small price to pay for her offensive abilities if you ask me...

Okay so..

As promised I spent the week using my sorrows some more against various opponents and gangs and quite honestly I do not see them as useless at all.

With a little care and smart maneuvering I was still able to use them as damage mitigators for Pandora and all in all I still think they are worth taking. This giant gamebreaking-cuddle conversation all boils down to just one little thing. You now have to activate the sorrow first and link to Pandora before she goes sailing off across the board..

If we Neverborn/Pandora enthusiasts are perfectly honest with ourselves I would have to say that this change has only brought her further in line with the other masters in the game as far as balance is concerned..

It is my firm opinion (and thats all it is before someone starts whining) as a tried and practiced Pandora player that this change has only made things a little more even-keeled for our opponents.

At the beginning of the turn Pandora should STILL have a Sorrow in base contact with her anyways so you can still use it as a defence if your opponent gets initiative.

I think that the dilemma this creates for us as Pandora players is both enjoyable and edgy. Do we go straight on the offensive with Pandora before our opponent has a chance to react? Or do we first link up that Sorrow and give the chance for first blood back to him?

I think the change is fair and although there are better 3ss models available to her they are far from useless. When all things are said and done I will still be using Sorrows because they are fun and played correctly can still win you games.

Are they still as good as they were?

Nope

Are they useless and broken like a 3 legged chair?

Sorry absolutely not

The more I read this thread the more I see people pleading for something back to make life easier for themselves because of a refusal to adapt. The kind of thing I expect to read on a GW-oriented forum. Not everyone who plays Wargames is a Min/Maxer who wants optimal performance out of every single model they own. I still find Sorrows very useful, I still find them fun and I find the change brings Pandora out of the slightly overpowered bracket and into line with the rest of the game..

Whilst I am annoyed a Marshal has still not made an official comment on this thread I am equally annoyed with the "Sorrow is now useless" argument that continues to crop up.

They are not useless at all. They only now require a change in the way Pandora goes on the offensive. I still win games against good players having adapted my playstyle slightly.

Ways around the link change..

Dont have Pandora in a position where she HAS to activate first.

Do spread sorrows out in front of her to deny line of sight and give her some protection moving forwards.

Dont skip Pandora off ahead of the "pack"

Do have the rearmost sorrows activate first so that as she moves forward those at the front can link to her when the vanguard sorrows die.

Dont be so defeatist and actually try using them some more

Do answer this freaking post Wyrd so we can put it to bed

I am using the little tiny voodoo dolls meant for the hags base as the special forces "Wicked dolls" at the moment.. They are great for comedy effect if little else