hippieshopper

I'm going to have to borrow book 3 and check this mess out.

I read bits and bits, but I am really liking this whole Mindless Zombie thing more.

Instead of a summoning master, he is the reason movies like dawn of the dead exist.

I think teamed up with Rafkin, he could do well, even if the zombies aren't treated as corpse counters anymore.

You still have tons of punk zombies with slice and dice, so Nico is also a master of recycling now.

It's good to see the dead doing their part for the environment.

While I totally agree he needed a smack of the ol' cuddlebat, they seemed to have taken everything that he was for and twisted it around.

Voracious Rats was absolutely nasty for de-countering masters who relied on them

He still has some insignificant but it doesn't help his tanky-ness at all.

The blight counter thing is cool, and I like how Wyrd are now making models that can do something about it.

To me, honestly, he seems a lot better (and not to mention OP) in his original form.

I have a friend who wants to play Hamlin, can you guys tell me how he is?

Hahaha

Ask Sandwich.

I've found that he's easier to deal with in Avatar form, as odd as that may seem.

Throwing his Insignificant spell around is downright, teeth-grinding-ly annoying.

Basically he denies Masters their counters and makes people insignificant.

When they are insignificant, they cannot target him.

I do not have book 3 with me as my LGS doesn't have it, and I am not ever going to Gencon.

Soooo, I don't know if they changed it....but that's how it was before.

Welcome to the forums!

I hope you folks take a liking to Malifaux!

That's what I do too, I don't really know of any other way, but it works well enough for me

I cannot wait to get home on a pc to tell you all off for putting Marcus so low!

To be honest and not sarcastic at all...I would love to hear it.

I've tried to play with him and against him and even in a Triple Threat match and 2v2s and he doesn't hold up to the other people we play with/against.

Maybe you guys have some key that we're forgetting.

Sandwich appears to be pro-Molly, this time around.

Yup.

He has a very different view compared to the other folks on the forum. He makes good points but people don't like to be told they're wrong.

Just a point, he wrote the super-elaborate Seamus tactica that everyone has copied as a template. They're so quick to call him an idiot but never credit some of the good stuff he's done...it's like Fox News but without Bill O'Reilly.

Well, I would like to see more of what they gave her. I know she was going to get more. I am not sure how well it works with Nico.

That's what book 3 is for though. Her -Flip thing was alright, giving Nico another summon was cool too, she just never seemed worth her points.

I always liked using Jack Daw or even Killjoy.

Ive seen your thinking in a few threads, honestly you'd be better off letting me do it for you.

That's pretty funny.

I had a simple request, not rudeness.

If you really can't do that much, I will find someone that can.

A possible extra summon is all I used her for but ultimately she was no help at all.

I tried her with everyone but Seamus because I am just silly like that.

I did exponentially better with Jackie Jack.

Or a Frankie and a dog.

Here's my Crooligan writeup from my club forum:

Crooligan

4SS Horror. undead.

has a crappy melee attack with poison 1, that can do +1 dmg on the trigger. Overall a good attack for a 4pt model, but only Cb 4.

Has some funky stuff - can make fog, can teleport to another one when it's in fog, gives living models within 3" -1 Wp, and makes a free move after making an interact action. Can also teleport to a friendly Master within 10". They have 7 Df while in a friendly mist and +2 Wk.

Unfortunately, they're a scout/objective style model with move 4. And they're no good unless you take them in groups. They could be good in a little gang, which is how their fluff reads, but they're too easy to neuter by taking out one or two. Playing these could mean they turn out to be good if you have luck on the table, but their low base stats mean they also have potential to be useless and you dont want to have 12 points tied up in useless models that spend all their time trying to combo with eachother.

In summary, I dont think you'd ever run these in a serious list. They're not quite worth their points and really need multiples (ie more than 2) to work, and Rezzers already suffer from "too many small models that dont do enough" syndrome (and, interestingly, I've won pretty much all of my games where I dont play Rezzers like this and lost all of my games where I do...). As I say they could definitely have some good games where they hit triggers and teleport/run around at Df 7 stabbing things for 3/4/5 damage, but dont expect it to happen often or against good opponents.

Can you post all of their stats without the opinions please.

I would like to think for myself.

Tiers are a bit silly because 80% of it is personal skill....the other 20% is this tier you all speak of.

Tier 1 Masters: Hamelin, Perdita, Lilith, The Viktorias, Seamus

Tier 2 Masters: Lady Justice, Ramos, Nicodem, Pandora, Somer

Tier 3 Masters: Marcus, Marcus, Marcus, Marcus, %*&^ing fix Marcus

I am hesitant to put people like Pandora, Colette, and/or Kirai on there because they are truly "SKILL" masters, very finesse-y sort to deal with.

No, Marcus and/or Ramos are not like that because even at their best they don't stand toe-to-toe with someone like Perdita, Hamelin, or Lilith.

Argue if you will, this is a debate...and I suspect constant debasing or at least doing your best to ignore me.

So, he is an alp bomber.

Alps are not as cool as they seem if you're surrounded by Frankies.

Slow+Slow does not equal Paralyze, so you're good.

I would do what Qi'iq'el said and scatter them out with Fog covering them and Bolster up. That way when he does drop it on you, you can take control of the situation immediately.

Also as it was said, LCB takes a lot of cards to run that murdertrain, so if a model dies on the last AP of LCB/Dreamer, pop out Bete Noire and smack him with Slit Jugular. He has to chuck 2 Cards...if he dies, you get a card and a very nice story to tell.

If you have a problem with alps, save cards for Slice and Dice with the PZ. It's not a "Walk/Strike" so you don't suffer for it. If you can, and you want, use Undress (from the Belles) and lower their DF by 2.

What good is moving Nico up in the first turn against such crews? Serious questions, I want to gain all the knowledge I can from Nico players.

Control.

If you have Nico or Vultures near the middle you have some serious battlefield control.

You have the threat of pounding anything that comes through with Decay or Paralyzing them.

I prefer not using vultures though.

Also, if you want to be a jerk, you can try using a Shikome and targeting the Dreamer as your prey.

EDIT: I am not trying to copy you Q'iq'el...really =]

Yeah, I either have Nico go first or last...never usually in-between

As for taking Morty AND Sebs...I don't recommend that.

Sebs healing is not that great, and he's usually a big target because nobody likes getting a sawblade to the face.

Morty is a lot better because Nico can do something with Corpse Counters, not Body Parts.

The hanged are pretty good for their morale duels, but the dreamer's crew is...well you know for yourself.

Bete Noire is good, with or without paralyze as Q'iq'el said. You can get Paired 8Cb, and +2 Damage Flips with a flurry...that's a lot of hurt. She can pop up wherever she wants, just keep a 10 of something in your hand....if they get past a Df of 9.

Naw, you don't need to kill off your own dudes unless you really want to.

I like Nico because he's great at bringing his minions back.

As far as the Kidnap thing, you don't want to "give" your opponent VP. VP is how you win, not summoning. It's funny if you do that...get lucky and get 6 CC and make a RN and a Frankie but you have to make sure you can deny their other scheme or strategy.

If you know you can block their strategy completely, then by all means do that.

Crooked Men are amazing (I know I am late on this)

They usually don't fall for walking into the land mines but it seems to create a wall between them and Nico, at this point I usually use 2 AP (from crooked men) to cast cave in with my highest non-Crow cards. To whittle them down, after the opponent activates, you have Nico finish them off with Decay, thus getting you some MZs.

ALSO~~!!!

Don't forget his Trigger on Decay if you have some tomes.

Putrefy is very good for getting cards. As well as from Reanimator.

I'd start offing dogs and exhuming to get some frankies

I'd only reanimate PZs and Belles if you didn't have/start with them

I'd have a max oh 4 PZs and up to 3 Belles

If you have more than that and you can get something out of him, start whipping up Frankies.

That's always how I've dealt with the 'Born, a wall of frankies is an amazing feat though.

The major threats are;

Oogie Boogies Gambling things that aren't immune to influence

LCB give your models extraneous arseholes.

Teddy.

Although he won't be a problem if your models are affected by Bolster Undead.

Also with Bete, I don't know if you get the paralyze because of some rules douchebaggery concerning what is and isn't living.

If nothing else take the +2 Damage Flips...or slow on hit.

Kirai...are you forgetting 2 Shikome?

Pair em on the same thing, they have so many + Flips it doesn't even matter.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J06BU6Fj6Qs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J06BU6Fj6Qs[/ame]

This might not be the right spot for this but, I don't think it matters.

I would just like to personally thank some of the writers of Malifaux.

Even if there are some...inequalities, I had a moment earlier that made me pretty happy about this game.

I was reading the Rising Powers book earlier and while I got to the section that "Avatar" forms were released in a sense, and I was just past Sammy and Sonnia's section when "For Whom the Bell Tolls" by the great Metallica began playing on my laptop. It fit so well, and that was a pretty awesome section.

It made me think if I had the resources or knowledge of CG, I wanted to put together a few short movie clips of the masters at their "most badassery".

Lame?

Probably, but I don't care.

With that idea, I wish to give my thanks again.

Lastly though...McMourning and Marcus....a paragraph?

Come on...

I've just bought the dead rider and grave spirit so I can combo them to give the rider that lovely armor bonus.

I was wondering if 'defensive stance' is legal to use with the grave spirit? Most of the time he'll be passing on his APs anyway and he can get dragged about by the linked rider, so doesn't worry about the movement hit, so seems like defensive stance every turn is a no brainer? Unless I've missed something of course. Any views?

I don't see why you can't.

As long as you get your link with him, he's pretty good.

Yes, you guys are on the money.

The Dreamer is active and mobile, whereas Nico is slow and reactive.

He's a "wait and see" master

Out of all of his spells, Rigor Mortis is actually your best weapon, for anyone

PGB is right, with mobile crews your best guess is to isolate a model, kill it off, and repeat, by the 4-5th turn he won't have anything but the Dreamer left....usually

You just have to prepare for where he will drop the bomb on you and have counter attacks ready.

You may also want to try using some Crooked Men too.

Most people don't send their models into Shafted counters so they end up being a wall, you can use this and make a decent meat grinder.

Don't just take a lot of dogs unless your strategy is something like A Line in the Sand or something that says "Place X on other side of table"

Slaughter is something us zombie doers do best.

When you say dreamer I think of several types to build him.

Which does your opponent use?

Some people say "Oh, alp bomb is da best"

Do they try to mix and match?

Just run with the Oogie boogies?

Also Death after Death is only good if you go against people who LOOOVE using small cheap models without some way to eat Corpse Counters.

I would take Bodyguard as one, as Nicodem is impossible to kill if you play him right.

I usually only take Mortimer if I am going against all machines or...the Dreamer.

Punk Zombies!!!

You need punk zombies...and Belles...this is bread and resser butter.

Punk Zombies are lethal, easy to kill, but countlessly...I have killed something because my opponent thought it was a good idea to charge my PZ

Belles can lure pretty much anything not Immune to Influence, they get to hit anything if you can pull and enemy into their 2" melee range, oh...and they're 4SS apiece. Lure something close to the belle, have a PZ close and flurry it to death.

Nico can buff anything within 10" of him with a lovely +2Cb and +2Df, giving your PZs Paired 9 Cb.

Bete Noire is nice because she can pop up and paralyze, and her paralyze goes off on HIT, not on damage. With buffed, paired 8cb, paralyze will be easy.

Jackie Jack is nice, but you have to hold on to the Black Joker...which keeps your hand size equal to theirs.

Killjoy is really nice but he costs a lot and is a huge target for Chompy, however the Oogie Boogies will tear him up with their Gamble.

I would try to bring out some Frankies...or Flesh Constructs. They're big, have wonderful Cb, and Wds...they do a lot of damage, are faster than you might think and the Oogie Boogies can't touch them with Gamble your life.

Tried to break up the TL;DR a bit.

I know people will usually disagree but I am used to it.

Apparently, we're a bunch of dirty metagamers up here.

I would like to add Rotten Belles as one of, if not the absolute, best 4 point model in the game.

Low-Average Df...yeah

but how many 4 point models have 8 Wds?

They have decent combat of 6 on one of their weapons

Masters of battlefield control with a Lure. (Ca of 8, range of 18")

Lovely targets=anything with a nice, high walk.

Lots of nasty debuffs.

and if paired with Seamus, lethal.

Rocket Belles indeed.

Punk Zombies are very nice too. Buffed by Nico, that's a possible flurry with PAIRED, combat 9!

Pretty much guaranteed to do at least 6 damage.

And yeah, I agree with Q'iq'el, Bete does shine with Nico but you have to keep her in his bubble of buffing in order to be that lethal. Sonnia is the last target you want to come at though.

Also if you want to burn 20 SS in a hurry, take Killjoy too, they can both come out on the same death, if you want. Off a Necropunk and BAM!

Murdertrain.

You can use Belles, Lure Criid constantly, she'll either get pulled toward something that will kill her, or you will waste her cards/soulstones.