Ace of Apes

Of all the questions about life and the universe you always wanted answered, and desperately so, "How good is my color vision?" is one that need no longer give you sleepless nights.

Because you can just take this test, which will only give you sleepy eyes.

I ended up with a 4, by the way, which is sadly only almost perfect. I blame my monitor, of course.

Yeah, questions about the board could be interesting, I think. As in, is it all present once the game starts or expanded while playing, is the layout determined (semi-)randomly or by the players, etc.

Also, I found something about how to win a Puppet War here.

Nothing is said about whether you get your objectives at the start of a game similar to Malifaux (and other wargames) or just have a couple of win conditions that apply in every game you play, so maybe that would be a good question to ask.

It just occurred to me that I don't actually know anything about the objective of the game. So, did I miss something here, or has there been no information regarding that so far?

Answer 7: Prices aren't set in stone yet, but 40+ puppets plus all needed game materials should be around $200 retail. (you won't need that much to play, but if you're collecting... )

Well, well, well...dgraz, I'll pay you that for a kidney. Just PM me so we can work out an appointment with my associate, who wants to remain anonymous for now*, for your surgery.

Send me this PM within the next 24 hours and we will throw in a bathtub full of ice and some painkillers, gratis and for free.

*: I assure you that he is, of course, a Doctor. Not a Doctor of Medicine, maybe, but where he comes from, universities offer a rather broad curriculum, and he has more than enough practical experience.

Depends on the crew for me.

Som'er: Pretty much never hold it.

Zoraida: Usually only hold if I take Jack Daw.

Pandora: Rarely hold it.

Lilith: Hold it before the big turn of murder, like ukrocky said.

Dreamer & Collette: Always, always hold. Too much that can go too wrong in too painful ways.

Concept art for upcoming stuff: http://dinmoney.deviantart.com/gallery/

So the Monks get a boy with some...I dunno, macaque I guess, and a girl with a gorilla.

Ro-Kan it is.

They are absolutely stunning and I can see myself playing the Temple of Ro-Kan and the Savage Wave.

Same here. I don't know jack about the rules yet, but I already love the Bakemono.

And Ekusa. I'm going to get that miniature even if I pass on the faction. Riding turtle, man!

As for the miniatures in general, I like the style, and the sculpts are really good, but I agree that a lot of them look static. I guess I blame the concept art.

I agree, pick what appeals to you most. Neverborn don't have a master I'd call subpar (actually, they're all really good), and while some are harder to learn than others, well...the game may be complex, but not overly so. Even the intricacies of crews like the Dreamer's will come to you soon enough, and there's enough reading material around here, too.

Plus I find that most new players struggle more, or at least for a longer time, with the objective-centered tactics Malifaux requires than with their models' rules anyway.

Also, you'll probably learn faster when you're really enjoying your crew, so there's that as well.

A word of warning, though - Pandora and the Dreamer aren't just hard to learn, they're also really tough to counter when you don't know their weaknesses. So, if Malifaux is mainly a second game in your area or has only just started to grow, those two crews would be liable to earn you some weary sighs and accusations of cheesery.

Okay, so from what I know of the gremlins they're great for shooting, blast/pulse effects and claiming objectives through weight of numbers, but suffer from a low Wp and poor resiliance.

That and not hitting much reliably without their support are their main weaknesses, yeah.

So if you're hoping to counteract those weaknesses, Von Schill seems to be an ideal candidate. Levi could also work, since his key models have a very high Wp and he can tailor his crew to ignore alot of Morale or Wp-type effects too (even just by virtue of being undead or constructs)

Yeah, now that I think about it, Von Schill would probably be a good answer to most or even all things Gremlins fear. I haven't actually seen him in action, though, but just the regular Freikorps stuff, I guess with Taelor thrown in, would shore up a lot of my usual weaknesses.

(Also, what Necromorph said is of course a good reason for him - I could easily get a Viks crew out of that with just a few model purchases.)

One thing that kept my thoughts away from Levi so far is that Gremlins often have issues with opponents that can reach their utility stuff, and I think Levi would suffer from that as well, since his support is so critical for him. Perdita with Nino and one or two Austringers, for example, would be something that I suspect would spell trouble for both.

However...

Levi - One of (if not THE) most powerful ranged casters in the game. His ability to kill just about anything in 2-3 spells, and his crews immense versatility make him a strong choice.

His sheer damage output against a single target is a strong selling point for sure. Gremlins can do a lot of damage, but not against everyone.

Decisions, decisions...

However, unless you know exactly what you want to run with him, trying out different options can get expensive. Additionally, he is a tough master to learn and has a lot of abilities and traits that you need to stay on top of to make him run efficiently.

Being expensive and hard to learn isn't really much of a concern to me since I don't play that many crews. Right now it's Gremlins (both Som'er and Ophelia), Showgirls, Zoraida and Lilith.

So I could free up both the time and cash for Levi or, for that matter, Hamelin.

Anyway, thanks for your help.

Okay, so with the Rules Manual and Gaining Ground out for a while, there's some interest in tournaments at my LGS.

That's pretty cool, but it also means I should probably invest in a new Outcast crew to shore up some weaknesses my Gremlins (both Som'er and Ophelia) have. For various reasons I'm leaning towards the Viks, maybe Hamelin, but truth be told, I feel I don't really have enough experience with any of the non-Gremlin Outcast crews to actually make a good decision.

So, I'm turning to you guys to tell me who you'd generally consider the best second Master to bring to a tournament alongside some kind of Gremlin list.

Best just meaning making for the most powerful combination of lists here, not most fun, easiest to learn or cheapest to get the models for.

Thanks in advance.

Yeah, I agree. Gremlins do well in a lot of scenarios, but that's because they can put a lot of non-insignificant models on the table.

They don't focus on the scenario as much as some other masters do.

They're also not a good crew to start the game with, since they're a bit on the complex side and they need a lot of models. You can totally do it, of course - I did it, and back then they were a lot worse. But I did it because I really love the models, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who doesn't feel the same way.

As for Lilith vs. Collette...eh. Lilith's Nephilim can be used for Zoraida, which you might still want to pick up, and she's definitely easier to get the hang of. She also has cheap expendable models to be used as living torpedos. Collette is the tricksier of the two, but both fit the criteria given here and don't need a lot of models bexond their box sets.

I'd say Lilith is a better option for a beginning player, but if you prefer Showgirls to Nephilim, go for it, you'll just need to think harder and will probably lose more games for some time.

I don't play him myself, only against him often, but I can't remember ever seeing him with less than 5.

The exact number depends as with many Masters. Like, when I play Lilith, it's usually 7 for some extra safety and options in-game (these games tend to be about soulstone attrition).

Anyone else here who was like "Well, that sounds like you might enjoy--"

For now there's only one army I don't want to play (for aesthetic reason) : resurrectionist.

...damnit!"?

But, yeah, I think Neverborn would be the second best guess. Zoraida's who you want, with a dash of Lilith most likely, at least for the Nephilim to serve as missiles.

Whoo! Where did all that Arcanist love appear from?

You've got a mad scientist/beastmaster, a steampunk inventor/power broker, a possessed cult leader and showgirls specializing in the dance of death.

These people are also all mobsters.

Arcanists are awesome.

(But I never got into their rules until Collette came out, so Neverborn for me.)

Well, I would say that anything said about overall game balance right now is - to some degree at least - conjecture, simply because the game isn't that big yet, meaning we're dealing with smaller and a bit isolated metas and a lack of tournament data.

That being said, though, I do think Neverborn have some of the strongest masters overall, and not a single one I'd say is sub-par, so I would agree that they're the strongest faction right now.

How far ahead they are I feel unable to say due to the reasons stated above, but yeah, they're really good.

(For the record, I consider myself a Neverborn player, although I don't play them as often as I used to these days thanks to Gremlins being good now and Collette being too much fun to resist.)

Also note that if you dont like losing its probably not the best crew to start on i think i lost my first 20 games of malifaux horribly, until i got my head around what teeth can do.

Blame every loss on the hooch.

I don't have much to add, really, but I have to say that I find it really hard to play without the utility the Slop Haulers give the crew. They make it a lot more consistent, and I'd recommend getting a blister early on.

Som'er. I want to take a swig of that Gremlin 'shine. After that, piggy rodeo and maybe a good ol' raid with the cousins.

I seem to end up in a lot of match ups where the opponent is either not worth obeying or high WP. having your own beatstick to fall back on is really useful. otherwise you end up with Zoraida running around doing nothing useful. When your opponents master is blasting your force away or summoning more models. If Z is not obeying something useful then your playing at a disadvantage

I actually agree that ITI is kind of a big deal considering his price tag. Zoraida usually (always depending on what targets you expect the opponent to have, of course) wants a good Obey target first or the crew on a whole tends to struggle with momentum in my experience. That's why I don't find myself playing Bad Juju that often, actually.

I think he might see more play in the future. Right now it's kind of hard to find a home for him since three of his possible masters are simply pretty restrictive when it comes to model choices and Zoraida doesn't actually synergize with him, although he still offers enough to be worth taking sometimes.

So, when I say he's underappreciated I only mean that a lot of people seem to just dismiss him out of hand, which isn't really deserved.

I would argue that in a smaller game he is more worthwhile the Nino honestly. Nino generally sits in one spot and shoots. Which is okay for bigger games but in smaller games you need all your models more activate to complete strategies and schemes.

Well, I'm no Guild player, so I can't really claim to know what it's like for the Ortegas, but in general, I agree.

Personally, I think at least some players might just take Nino out of habit. I know I tend to do the same with Lilith and the Mature Nephilim.

EDIT:

Crooked men.

Wow, really? Resurrectionist players around here all over them. Like, the first thing I see Nicodem summon is almost invariably either a Belle or a Crooked Man, depending on what I'm bringing.

Santiago.

He is the least loved Ortega in these parts.

Same here, and I don't get it, either.

He also simply looks really fun, but a lot of players don't take him. At least not in smaller games.

Also, Bad Juju. Sure, he's situational, but he's not that kind of terrible model you only call "situational" because you don't want to actually call it terrible only to get into an argument with that one guy who puts it into every single list and will never actually concede a point, ever.

At least I think Zoraida's compost heap really has his uses, but most Neverborn players I know never even seem to consider him.

Poor Juju.

Oh, and then there's Misaki. I'm pretty sure I never saw her on the table. In fact, this thread just reminded me of her existence. Huh.

I own a lot of Neverborn stuff and plan to get what I don't have already, but mostly play Som'er, Ophelia and Collette, with Lilith and Zoraida sort of trailing behind but still seeing the table often enough.

I've also got some stuff for Marcus, but rarely play him these days.

I don't see myself collecting another faction, but I've been thinking about a couple of other masters.

Sonnia or Kaeris, mainly, and McMourning could just sort of happen since I'll use him, the Nurses and Sebastian for Blood Bowl anyway. (McMourning and the Nurses as apothecaries, Sebastian as an Igor.)

So, I mainly stick with Neverborn and Gremlins, and apart from that it's individual crews that I like.

Som'er: I love Gremlins, both thematically and playstyle-wise. And now that you can actually reliably do something about above average Defense they're a lot less frustrating, too.

Colette: Just favors my kind of game and has a lot of models in her crew that are really cool to begin with.

Nicodem: Don't play him myself, but he always made me think about what to do next without ever seeming unfair.

Both of the Nicodem players I face off against regularly are really nice guys, too, so he gets bonus points for apparently attracting a classy playerbase - probably because of his top hat.

Honorable mention goes out to Zoraida for allowing a lot of experimentation.

Competitive.

I don't always play lists that I think are optimized, but I simply enjoy competition - like, I often start drinking contests, make walks to the station a race and believe trash talk is a natural part of each and every game so much I'll probably even do it when playing Parcheesi with my kids, if I'll ever have any.

Yes definitely impressive for the early stages of the game.

Yeah, definitely.

It's hard to call a poll like that conclusive, since not that many people participated, secondary systems are counted (which most likely favors skirmish systems) and the results also probably in part depend on what forums are made aware of the thing, but, all that said, Malifaux left a few established similar systems behind.

Infinity and Uncharted Seas, for example.

Anima Tactics, too, but that's a niche game for the anime crowd, so whatever.

7 regulars.

A lot more with crews, though, and some of them even play every now and then.

2. low investment cost

That's definitely true, but I think it's important to note that Malifaux requires a lot of terrain to be enjoyable and balanced; more than your LGS might be able to provide during peak hours.

So unless the entire group is content with labeled cardboard cutouts, this might drive the initial cost up a bit.

Still a cheap game when all's said and done, just maybe not as cheap as one might initially think.