Mr_Smigs

P.20 lists Action modifiers (on p.34) as ongoing effects, not Immediate effects...

action modifiers stack. they are immediate. look into the Slow/Fast interaction from about a month or two ago, we [the forums] had this discussion.

the application is treated as "ongoing" (result does not stack) even though the accrual of the "waiting to be resolved" is "immediate" (can have multiple instances)

those definitions of "Immediate" and "Ongoing" on page 20 are used very loosely with fast/slow... and thus arguing with fast/slow isn't exactly our best option, just the easiest to find in the rules..

first up:

Poison is not an Effect. it's a Token. which makes this discussion even more difficult because it is an Effect caused by a Token that represents an Effect.

which we could argue makes it Immediate in application, Ongoing in nature.

but then we get into the Poison

• ability : Poison X (treated like Ongoing since it replaces, not stacks)
  
• effect : Deal Wd based on poison token (Effectively, each poison token does 1 Wd, and the effect stacks, making it immediate)
  
• token : placed by the Poison X ability.
  

a three part "event" with different resolution timings.

Lucidicide, seriously, to recant the previous request: WHERE DOES IT SAY ACTIVE PLAYER CHOOSES?

Pg 117 and Pg 118 have the rules for Poison and Regen. Both say "at the start of its activation" and neither says immediately. So therefore... you're randomly assigning poison to immediately.

If there are two things that happen at the same time ("at the start of its activation"), active player chooses.

Slow is an "immediate" effect that applies at the start of the model's activation.

I'm using that as a guideline.

similarly, other abilities which might not activate (EG: Relentles) also have immediate effects, but would seem to be resolved after the "immediate" effects.

Really, there are alot of ways to read this:

1. Poison goes first. A model with 2 wounds is reduced to zero wound, dies, cannot regen.

2. Poison and Regen happen at the same time. The model's original 2 wounds are removed, the model is at 0 wounds. the model gains the "killed" status, and is applied 2 wounds from regen. it still has the killed status, and dies.

3. Active player chooses. Regen adds 2 health, poison removes 2. the model lives. (Alas, the book doesn't say that anywhere)

4. Poison and Regen counter each other. nothing happens.

whoops. nope, can't read it like 4. In cases where that happens (EG: Slow/Fast) there are specific mention of abilities canceling each other out.

now, back to supporting method 1.

Both effects are Immediate. I can totally agree with that.

HOWEVER

One of those effects is also an "Effect of the active player"

making it classify twice.

because "effects of the active player" must resolve after "immediate effects" this means it would que after effects caused by the inactive player (in this case, poison)

In the book examples (Rules Manual) it shows that a model cannot kill itself with an ability that drains Wd.

the Viktorias Avatar have a requirement to charge, or they suffer Wd damage...

what happens when they're at 2 or fewer wounds?

doesn't page 6 state:

Resolve immediate effects first, then effects of the acting player.

Immediate: Resolve Poison counters.

Active Player: Resolve Regeneration.

Kaeris has 'after damaging a model' with her burst template (implying that everyone under the 50mm is given a burning counter)

Ice Golem has 'after damaging defender' ...

so does this mean the Ice Golem only affects the specific target with the trigger?

Right,

1. If Kaeris hits an enemy base to base with ignite, and does max damage, Does she take a wound and burning counter?

2. If so, can she ignore the damage, heal one?

3. If she ignores the damage, does it ignore the burning counter.

4-6 - Same question if it's a Kaeris vs Kaeris match and they end up base to base bashing each other.

on max damage what happens to each?

arn't they releasing those models separately as well?

She wasn't mental in book 1, she was just a nice wee lassie running away and looking for something. Then she turns up a bit in book 2 (I think) and then suddenly she goes all radge!

If ever there were to be a Malifaux novel, I'd want it to be 'tina (or Seamus).

right... totally not mental... just hearing voices and trying to summon the destroyer of worlds...

Ninja's got it:

Anima Tactics Miniature Game Light Faction: Kujaku Hime

I was going to put it back-to-back with the Bellith figure (same line) as my "Avatar Vikis" but in the end, I decided I wanted it stand-alone instead.

Spirits can stop their movement 'on' impassible terrain (i.e. they can hover over the pit of nasty broken glass unlike other models. Spirits cannot, however, end their movement so they are sitting 'within' something with the impassible trait. They cannot hide themselves in hills, etc. If a Spirit for some reason ends an action inside Impassible Terrain (inside a rock) it returns to where it first entered it.we could also possibly add

what happens to a model that gains Spirit during the active phase, but loses it in the closing phase?

if they are "on" impassible terrain, do they explode in a dazzling display of impossibility?

ok, continuing the work, the Vikis models are kinda "meh" to me...

so I've started scrounging other sculpts to stand in...

first up, a stand in for "The Bounty Hunter" with a proper sword...

special events?

back when the game came out at first, most of our "demo" games were Justice or Perdita vs McMourning or Rasputina....

Ok, looking at the Nekima rules update and some of the comments...

I found myself wondering,

some have commented that couldn't see taking a specific model outside a specific list type....

Eg: Nekima outside a "grow" oriented list...

and I have to ask,

is there really any model over 6ss that you would take in ANY list?

isn't the very design of the game such that you're encouraged to build focused lists around a single fluff?

Does anyone take Belles with Kirai?

... Perdita with non-Family members?

... a Beast list lead by Ramos?

... Nephlim with the Dreamer?

etc...

I mean, really, what struck me as odd was Nekima in a Woe list in the first place...

if the door's 47mm, to the average model height of 30mm... that should work.

it'll be movie-set style oversized, but that's actually a good thing to fit bases and everything

ok,

so "selected for Activation" is not an "effect" ... got it.

see, and we're back to "what is an effect"...

even if it's "immediate" it's not getting resolved "immediately"...

when interacting with other abilities... the question comes into play...

an "on activation" ability becomes questionable...

where does "companion" interact with "on activation" ... IIRC, in a similar thread, it was established that only certain abilities counted as "on activation" until the model was actually used (Like Seamus' WK boost, and Alp's Slow check...)

it all seems very... random... as to what counts and what doesn't when a model is "flagged" with Companion...

this is why understanding if the "going to activate" is an unresolved effect or what would be useful...

For simpler purposes, you could have players as one deck, GM as another... where instead of each player drawing a hand, they get 1 Fate card...

(so a team of 5 would have a full hand)... and create a series of abilities to allow extra cards, or playing cards for other PCs...

the bonus here is, your monster manual is the tabletop book,

1:1...no questions of how it would convert... instead just showing that those involved in these conflicts are notably more powerful than the average people...

if you figure a Guild Guard is "heroic" compared to the average citizen, then that makes 3s across the table your standard starting adventurer...

EXP could be as simple as:

The Attribute x 2 in points to raise it 1 level.

(10) points to buy a new abilitiy

(20-Casting Cost) for spells

and special actions would need some analysis to work out...

create "Ability Chains"/Requirements to get certain powers....

make qualifiers (like Guid Guard or Spirit) RP dependent stuff...

spells could further be filtered by Caster types (Arcanist, Neverborn, Guild, Ressurectionist)... etc... although this would start putting limits in...

however, it would also give you the ability to buy Suits and Triggers...

perhaps dedicated archtypes are the only ones who can access suits without the Adaptive Fighter ability?

Well let's say je had slow from something else beforhand or he could even be paralyzed and you wanted to compaion and spell break. What then?

there you go, more general, same question. thanks for clearing that up TimeLapse.

this is part of that "how companion afflicts a model" comes into play...

if they're considered "activated" (not an Effect) why Doesn't Nino take an Alp Test?

if they're not considered "activated" how does this play out with regards to effects?

Threadomancy FTW. Years ago I wanted to do a card based system for a RPG and I could never quite make it work. Malifaux with its use of suit modifiers and positive and negative flips has done wonders. It could easily be turned into an RPG. All that needs to be done is create a skill system that utilizes the same card system and a decision on how character advancement works. The rest is expansion of the already existing fluff background and your ready to go.

really, just a non-combat skill system, and rules for acquiring abilities/talents/spells and you've got the core done...

add an EXP system and character build... it could be simply managed...

say all PCs have X points to spend on their stats (as shown on the cards already) and Y points for Abilities/Traits...

Every player manages their own fate deck, and use the standard combat system...

Really, if you start everyone off with a basic stat of 2 across the board (as civilians)...

Version 1: The model is "Active" when flagged with Companion

Perdita activates using companion to bring Nino with her.

Nino is near an Alp, fails his WP and recieves Slow.

Perdita Spellbreakers Nino to remove Slow....

what happens about his activation

Possibility 2: (more vague 'cause I don't have books handy to give a specific interaction)

A model (MODEL G) with an "immediately activate" or "companion" effect is listed as having to activate

another model Buries MODEL G.

Does the "immediately activate" status go with the model permitting them to continue their activation after being unbuiried,

or, because of it (or the Companion) are they counting as already activating and thus lose out on an activation?

The key is one is replaced and one is removed it is quite a simple answer. Different from spiders so not comparable. As for the companion that I am not 100% but my guess is it is not an effect and so would not be removed.

whoa...

stop. rewind.

Companion changes the value of the model in some way,

how is it not an effect?

more specifically,

if a model is flagged by "companion" to activate, then is hit by something that "removes effects" can the option to activate be removed? (thus stalling it's activation until later)

Until perhaps Malifaux 2nd Edition Bishop is going to remain a neat but not totally competitive choice.

and reasoning like that is exactly why I field the model.

board control in a scenario can be priceless.

being able to re-position enemy models how I chose, totally worth it.

being able to reduce a model's effectiveness with slow, definitely.

being able to bait an enemy into position only to have Bishop hop out of the way... sure...

yes. expensive, because he's a multi-tool... which means more finesse is needed.

my only complaint is that "Adaptive Fighter" should add to CA as well, but that's a minor gripe...

If you're looking for "What would make Everyone field Bishop"... then how about, more fluff on the character, that upgrades him to Henchman.... Bishop, Friedkorpse Combat Instructor.... or something...

hmm... was just perusing Freebooter's Fate and saw this...

http://www.freebooterminiatures.de/en/catalog/174

Merc Viki?

right on. no worries... hoped the extra info helped...

we've got an "Infinity guy" up here in PHX at Outpost who's lookin at organizing another newbie tournament (the prizes are awesome, last one was an engraved chunk of glass big enough you could beat someone to death with it...)

prolly in a couple months... (more when I know) and we'd love to get more people into it...