Mr_Smigs

are:

Armor (+3)

and Armor (+1)

considered different names?

are they considered different abilities if both are present on the model?

each effect with a different name that grants armor would be an individual effect and they would total when your resolving damage.

eg... a Moleman would have Armor +1 and a Dug In effect.. so when you take damage you would have Armor +4.. but at any other point they would be an effect and an ability. So if you had a way of copying one thing off the Moleman you could choose Armor +1 or Dug In, not the entire Armor +4 stack.

so, if you are copying "the armor" of the construct,

and it has a stack of multiple "armor" abilities,

you only get to pick one, right?

this is where i'm confused, the difference between the Armor ability, and Armor at resolution

it is added together for the resolution of the attack.

so, armor from multiple sources is added together at resolution? not before?

yeah, reaper's been re-releasing the models with updated scupts...

I'm hoping they continue into the Rippers line as well

Its a single ability - its right there in the rules manual - "armor #"...

it says the ability stacks at resolution,

not that they combine to form voltron.

why is he getting to copy multiple abilities as a single one?

so, then, back to that original thread,

if Multiple sources of the Same Ability do not become a single ability,

why do they imply that you can copy multiple abilities with a single use?

so...

figuring out how I was gona paint this guy

http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/savage/sku-down/59013

it got me thinking, that it'd be darn cool for a boxed set of "Epic" Jack Daw (promoted to Master/Henchman status) with a bunch of hanged and malifaux raptors..

alas, that's about where the thought ended...

hmm... so they do....

so, If a model has Bulletproof 1, and a spell gives it Armor 1,

then the powers evolve into Armor 2 vs Ranged and Melee?

so, if something ignores armor, it ignores magic resistance and object because they all have the same end result?

something seems odd there...

http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=25763

wait...

I get that armor Stacks (game term)

but, does that make it a new ability?

Does Armor (+2) and Armor (+1) evolve into Armor (+3)

or is it still Armor (+2) and Armor (+1) giving a combined result of a +3...

really, this matters for if a model it hit by an effect that ends a limited number of effects on the model.

If a model has Armor (+2) and Armor (+1) ... do you have to be able to end 2 effects to cancel both,

or just the ability to end one effect (Armor)?

[never mind, answered above as i was posting]

the Detonate Tanks doesn't need LOS...

why does this need LOS?

Yes, but in the case of Infinity the attacker still has an advantage in that they are still rolling more attacks and can control when the attack happens. I am always, as the attacker, going to try and keep myself in a range and situation where I get a bonus to my target number and they take a penalty to theirs. With hell dorado each attack sequence is only modified by temporary conditions, but that conditions do not have a huge impact individually. Now if you can stack a bunch of temporary conditions then you really see a huge impact in the combat outcome.

true. and in both there are models that get to resolve before their opponent.

It just felt worth mentioning because the player brought it up...

basically, his comment was

"Generally, in Helldorado, you will never move a model into position at the beginning of the game just to have the enemy one-shot it. You never get the feeling you just wasted the points to buy a model because it never did anything." (This came right after a viki slingshot combo aced two of his grunts who'd only moved to hold position.)

and the same is true in Infinity, what with AROs and all.

and in reality, i can think of cases for both where that's not true, but those involve specialty models that'll get splattered immediately if they're not properly supported..

Ok, additional commentary from a player I was helping get back into Malifaux this weekend...

Combat Style... this was actually a big concern of theirs,

in Helldorado and Infinity combat have active defender,

when you attack (specifically in melee) an enemy model, the opposed roll can result in the attacker taking damage as well.

this does change the strategy notably from "get the Alpha Strike" to "manage damage mitigation" when planning for the turn.

The resulting ranged strikes do not adhere to the rules for ranged strikes (cover modifiers, randomized into melee, etc.)? I'm not asking about the pulse, I'm asking about the ranged strikes generated by the pulse.

This.

Thank you hatchethead for clarifying the question.

the standing ruling seems to be that even though it uses the term "Ranged Strike" (A well defined game term)

the attacks generated by the pulse are, in fact, NOT, Ranged Strikes.

am I getting that?

and if so, why are they called "Ranged Strikes"?

Keltheos, you state at one point they were Duels, not strikes. Is that what the wording is supposed to be?

again, was the intent that this is supposed to be just the Duel portion of a ranged strike, none of the targeting or restrictions?

in that case, does it ignore LOS?

I feel like this discussion has happened already.

He's blowing up his freaking tanks. Its a giant explosion and fireball. Anything near him gets hit. Being in melee with him will not help you at all.

The point of the wording is to say that all models in range are equally effected, the type of attack is moot. Everyone in the pulse takes an equal share.

but... they don't...

models in a defensive stance, or with naturally high Def, can actually make it out of the pulse unscathed.

equal share would basically just be "Shatter 4" ...

not a series of attacks with trigger options.

It's a pulse. Pulses do not affect the acting player unless otherwise stated.

as stated above,

the Detonate Tanks Action is that it is a pulse which generates Ranged Strikes against all models in the area

the pulse may not target the initial model,

but what about the ranged strikes.

we're already ignoring the standard "no ranged strikes in melee"

do we also ignore the "randomize shots targeted in melee"?

do we ignore the "+1 Df for models in melee..."?

do we ignore any abilities that modify ranged attacks?

what other ranged strike rules does this ability ignore.

if the friekcorps specialist is in melee with a model,

and uses the abilitiy,

do they have to flip as per a ranged strike into melee with the chance of hitting themselves?

I'm sure there are other "Ranged Strike" granting abilities/spells that could similarly be questioned.

ok...

pg 18.... Strikes with melee/ranged Weapons... and Actions that inflict Dg or Wd on another model or require an Opposed Duel.

pg 41... a model making a Strike with a ranged weapon is making a ranged attack and any modifiers that affect models making ranged attacks apply... and models engeged in melee cannot make ranged attacks.

doesn't that mean that the detonate is a ranged attack, and cannot be used in melee?

Focus: The model performs a melee or ranged Strike. The Strike's Attack Flip and Damage Flip recieve +. Weapons that require more than 1 AP to make a Strike cannot be Focused.

http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=25730&page=2

an action that generates a Ranged Strike is not a Ranged attack.

So....

Hans could stand still to shoot a model that has rushed into melee combat...

how does this interact with Trigger Happy?

ok, it's a pulse, so it can be USED,

but it makes Ranged Strikes, which cannot be done in melee combat.

are you allowed to resolve the attacks if you are in Melee?

I am pretty sure you can use it in Melee as it is a pulse. Pulses are not ranged attacks.

The pulse creates an effect allowing you to make the ranged actions. If the skill said all models "within 6 inches make a ranged strike" and did not have the pulse symbol, I would say no you can not make the strikes. But the skill is a pulse, not a ranged strike.

The model is not attempting to target a model with his flamethrower. He is blowing up his tanks....BOOM. Booms are not ranged attacks; they are shock waves. Shock waves are not ranged attacks.

and thus where the initial question started.

if the intent is to generate a series of targets for a pack of ranged strikes,

then why does it have a Pulse symbol.

if the intent is to generate a Pulse that hits or misses based on the Cb of the ranged weapon. why does it say "ranged strike" instead of "strike using the flamenwoofer Cb"

This is what I do when effects are granted. Put a Slow(Fast) or Spell Effect Marker down then there's no question during the game.

but the question is, do you place the token in the first place.

"Clear token without resolving"

and "Do not place token" are two different things.

Immune doesn't clearly define which you do,

and since other rulings (the previously mentioned Slow "pile up") make it further unclear,

we're left with the basic question.

some Tokens (IE: Poison) clearly state you don't put more, but replace with max effect...

what does that mean for others?