Justin

The key is here:

“Sisters”: Crews hiring this model as a

Master begin the game with 2 Viktorias. A

Crew can have a maximum of 2 Viktorias in

play at any time.

So you hire a single model. You happen to gain two figures on the table but the game doesn't know that until after the purchase crew step. As you purchase your crew you are only buying one master and as such you may only purchase one Totem.

Ah, that makes sense.

You purchase one Master. With that purchase you get two models. Thus you may only purchase one totem.

Well, I assume each Victoria would have the Master trait, right?

The totem entry just says that a totem must be linked to a master when it is hired. Not linked to one master per...purchase of master. The totem entry just doesn't seem to make any prohibitions about buying in bulk.

That said, I'll take your ruling on it because I'm sure you know the intent better than I do (and what you say makes sense anyway) and you know what will be in the FAQ, but the rules as written don't seem to have anything against it, as far as I can tell. (but I could be totally missing something)

Well if there was open voting this one would have my vote for December NBR of the month!

Thanks!

card's aren't in front of me, but doesn't gore just give a damage boost on pigcharge, not a +flip? Unless you are pointing out the obvious of always getting a + on charging...not just pigcharge.

You're right, gore doesn't give you a +flip for damage during a pig charge. However, under the description of pig charge, it says you get a +flip on damage.

But keep in mind you don't get a +flip for charging during a pig charge. Despite the deceiving name, a pig charge isn't actually a charge, just a push interrupted by a melee strike. Which is nice, because you could still make a normal charge if you so chose (and weren't stampeding).

If you take a totem with the Viktorias (can you do that with their self companion?), is it possible to chain the companion activation. As in, activate sword vik, who is in 6" of gun vik, who is in 6" of the totem.

Would activating sword vik, and companion activating gun vik, allow the totem to activate, or would gun vik have to activate, allowing both to companion off her.

Also, would the totem have to companion to a specific vik, or would that be shared by their sisters ability?

I agree with n0signal.

As for your second question: I believe it would have to companion to a specific Victoria. However, as far as I can tell, you could take two totems and link one to each.

-=PimpMyZombie=-: Ain't no thing, baby. Ain't no thing.

Single white male seeks adventurous, young female.

Photo:

:seamus

Name: Seamus

Status: Single

A message from Seamus: I've never really done this sort of thing before, but I'm dead serious about finding the right girl. If you're into trying new things and you're thinking about starting a whole new life, hit me up.

Well, that's what happens when you thank people in advance.

You could solve it even easier and just have them be in defensive stance until they move or take another action other than pass.

And since anyone who uses defensive stance uses it as their last action, that would essentially mean it lasts until the start of their next activation. Only it could last longer, if they choose to pass.

I just don't see the reasoning behind adding benefits to an ability that is already pretty good without any additional drawback.

All that said, I present two situation.

First Sonia Criid needs to kill a master with 1 wound left on it. There is also a witchling stalker with 1 wound left. Why should she hesitate if it is in melee, since hitting either target would be a win win situation?

Secondly, if your mom told you to stay still so she could stab you in the face, I think you would be quite opposed to the idea.

My suggestion other than dropping the WP->10 check is to have the attacker and defender perform a WP->WP dual to see if they can make the attack.

My mom wouldn't give me any warning.

I would just wake up with a knife in my face.

I'm not certain what this says about game mechanics, but my mom is sneaky.

1) Seamus's Necropsychosis.

2) moving and attacking is 2 AP. Attacking a friendly right next to you is 1 AP.

3) I can cheat the defense of the friendly model being attacked.

4) In another game, I killed two zombie dogs in base contact with a mature nephilim which allowed him to charge freely at the enemy Master

5) In most situations it is more efficient than whirling death.

I actually thought that was kind of cool...

And it was my Seamus! Poor guy.

Although, admittedly, having to make a Wp check to fire into combat when you can just shoot at your own guys if they aren't in combat makes no sense. I would get rid of the will power check for firing into combat.

I am forced to take the opposition view, sir. Attacking friendly models should be easier.

.....

I am in agreement with Lalochezia here. Increasing the effectiveness of defensive stance will hurt some crews more than it will help others out. Gremlins (which people already feel are a weaker crew) as the best example. It would widen the gap and unbalance the game in my view.

I would like to see actions like defensive stance and focus etc be made to be the first action a model takes. Like you say people use it last to negate the downsides.

Well, the downside of focus is that it takes 2 AP, so when you use it doesn't really matter.

And, while I think defensive stance is good enough now and doesn't need any improvement, I do see the need for an ability that could protect you on the next turn if you lose initiative.

Perhaps defensive stance could even be changed to: "(1) This model gets -2/-2 walk/charge and 2 +flips on defense for the rest of the current or subsequent turn, owning player's choice."

This way you could use it twice on one turn (spending 2 AP) and be protected for two turns. Or you could spend 1 AP and be protected for either the current or next turn, your choice.

But, of course, the thread starter's point wasn't just about defensive stance, it was about all defensive actions. I just make the biggest point of defensive stance because it is both one of the best defensive actions in the game, and one every model can use.

12 hours, 7 minutes left...

OT @ acid_gaming

Here is the link to Dire Hoarcat Snugglers converted Gremlins: DHS Gremlin Conversions First page has the mods.

And Underbheit's:

Under's Gremlins Pictures throughout, however my favorite is his flying warpig.

And of course my own:

Omenbringer' Gremlins Only a few of mine, however, more to come soon.

Peterdita's Rasta Gremlings dont have much in the way of Conversions however are worth a look:

Peterdita's Outcasts Page 2 and 3 have his Gremlins.

@Lalochezia

Thought of two more models I would like to see for the Gremlins:

1) Pregnant Sow, with an ability that gives higher damage, call it "Momma's milk" and the ability to summon more piglets, not sure of a name for this.

2) Gremlin Pig Farmer, with the ability to grow piglets into Warpigs, sorta like the Nephilim (call it "Growth Hormones)

1) I would rather see higher cb than higher damage, but good idea.

2) Ha! That's cool.

I also recently converted a warpig to be carrying the gremlin with the spy glass on his back. It was pretty easy (hence why I was able to do it). I just flattened his back a bit with my clippers/file and then stuck a wad of greenstuff on it. I clipped the base slot off the spyglass gremlin and stuffed him in the greenstuff, then sculpted it to look like hair (the only thing I can sculpt). Turned out nice.

I'm going to try and model the guy who was supposed to be on his back to look like he's pulling a mushroom out of the muck, but we'll see how that goes.

My additions to these.

Som'er has a lot more depth than Get yer Bro and Take a Swig. He is predominately a Support Master that has a toolbox instead of one specialized function. Using him to the utmost is about managing his WD's and playing cat and mouse. In a straight up fight he will lose, however using Sooey! and Pork Whisper'n he can quickly redeploy and control his Pork muscle. A gremlins luck gives the ability to influence your opponents cheating while a Dumb luck Boomer strike can inflict up to 10 DG in one hit (though Som'er will incure 5 WD's himself). His largest obstacle is Ill-fated, however, with the synergy in his crew this is mitigated somewhat. His lack of cache is also a potential issue, though he has ways of mitigating that thru the aforementioned spaming of Get yer Bro and Come and Get it! (Both of which allow him to summon additional models) and by using other models in his crew.

Bayou Gremlins are another toolbox model in the Gremlin crew, they can deal decent DG thru the use of Dumb luck or Y'all watch this (and with well placed blasts get around higher DF), though the Gremlin tends not to survive after Dumb luck and will be Sac'd after Y'all watch this. The Flip for it spell and Focused attacks somewhat mitigate the risks associated with the Gremlin Boomstick attacks and compensate for their low CB. In the event you find your Bayou Gremlins in melee (a place they definately should not be) then Reckless Abandon and the squeel! trigger can provide some assistance in either dealing DG with the Rusty Weapons they carry (should they survive to use them) or help them survive for another round by getting out of combat. One of the often over looked abilities of the Bayou Gremlins is Deliverance, though Terrifying 11 isn't super great it does give a way around the Harmless defense, and can be used as another mechanic to burn your opponents draw deck. In summation they tend to work best when used in packs, and a Gremlin Gun Line can do a surpising amount of DG (or with bad flips destroy it self). Like the rest of the Gremlin crew cat and mouse games go along way toward getting them the win.

The Hog Whisperer is a support model for the Pigs pure and simple. They (along with the Skeeters and So'mer) are the driving force behind the speed and mobility of the Pig Boomerang. Judicius use of Sooey (from this model, So'mer and the Skeeters) and never happen... can move a squadron of Pigs (both spells effect all friendly Pigs within range) half way up the board before their activation allowing stampeded pigcharges deep into the enemy lines with little risk of losing your own models, then return them to safety for another launch next round. The two 0 actions on this model provide decent insuruance against errant Pigcharges killing your own models. Survival of the fittest is a nice extra when you are close enough to dying Gremlins to benefit (though remember you can only use one instance of SotF per Gremlin Death regardless of how many models with the ability are within 6").

Piglets, generally agree with what was stated by Raintar, though will add that Pigcharges are pushes so allow these models to freely leave melee combat. Also if the pigs are flying they will allow you to bypass screening models to get at the heart of the enemy during these pushes. Judicious use of Reckless fast can give piglets a surprising threat range and DG potential (Reckless Fast can be used even when the Pigs are Stampeding). Lastly, models with the Pig characteristic dont have to fear being the target of a stampeding pig, so use them in squadrons of 3 or more.

Warpigs, what applies to the Piglets generally applies to their bigger brother. The key difference is the base size, being on a large base they can block LOS to models which may be closer then the ones you want to attack (or friendlies) giving a small bit of control during stampedes. They also have a few situational abilities that are neat, such as the Truffle spell which can move a misplaced freindly Gremlin, or Eat anything which removes all Scrap and Corpse tokens within its range healing the Warpig 2 WD's per counter removed (still some debate on whether models leave these tokens if there are no Graverobbers or Scavengers on the field).

Giant Mosquitos, though the characteristic change from Gremlin to Vermin did eleminate an "Easy button" for the Gremlin Crews it also streamlined their role within the crew. Along with Som'er and the Hog Whisperers this model can cast Sooey! which allows the pigs to be boomeranged around the board and greatly enhances the Pigs threat range. As was mentioned by Lalochezia a pair of them can move anywhere on the board and set up your pig squadrons. Parasitic Infection can work miracles against the Resurectionist cannon fodder (on a successful cast you can almost guruantee that troublesome Flesh Construct or Killjoy will go bye bye). Another significant point is that due to the characteristic change from Gremlin to Vermin, Skeeters can now damage other skeeters with Pull my finger attacks (though thankfully the one who casts it wont) so careful placement when attempting the skeeter Stank Cloud is a must. Lastly, though Som'er can bond upto four, two tends to be his best number (at least until they start making more).

The above models tend to work best (at their full potential) when used together. Other Masters dont really get much use out them largely due to the increased SS cost per model. With any of these models WP duels are best avoided at all costs. Lastly, with all the above models except Som'er and the Warpig, fear Hamelin, his Bully ability coupled with Growing Influence and his Spells can reek havoc on your plans.

Being a gremlin player I thought I'd chime in here.

I totally agree with most of this. I would just like to add a few things.

1) The hog whisperer. For me, he goes up field where I don't want to send sommer (for fear of him being squashed) and still allows me to draw cards when those gremlins die. Also, with eight wounds, he can be an alright last resort speed bump before they get to sommer, or treasure counter mule. (although a reactivated warpig usually fetches the treasure counter for him)

2) Pigs and stampede. It is my understanding of the rules as written that the pigs MUST use reckless fast while stampeding, although I never really got a ruling on that. I'll go bump that thread.

3) I completely agree that two mosquitoes is the optimum starting number, but I thought I'd clarify why. Buying all four mosquitoes at the start of the game is a waste. Mosquitoes and gremlins are the same soul stone cost, so the more mosquitoes you have to summon with larvae, the better. The reason being that (so long as you have at least one mosquito) you can sacrifice a gremlin to summon another mosquito. This is superior to just buying a mosquito before the game because the gremlin you lost didn't cost you anymore than the mosquito and it netted you two cards when it died. And maybe you were able to activate it first and get some use out of it. So, now you may be wondering, why have two mosquitoes? Why not just one? The answer to that is souey. You want at least one mosquito that can use one AP to move up field 10" and another AP to cast souey and net all your pigs extra movement (which you get even if you fail this spell). Obviously, a summoned mosquito couldn't accomplish this since it is slow.

Thanks for doing all the hard work Omenbringer! Good summary of the gremlin force.

And good luck summarizing all of this for the opening post, Massaen.

Oh, and you might want to leave out the mosquito infinite movement. I'm sure it's going away. I just thought it was funny that a model with one of the most blatantly broken possibilities in the game was being called garbage.

doesnt defensive stance have to be the first ap used by a model in its activation? Thought that was in the FAQ

There is no FAQ...yet.

And it's not in the errata.

I sure would like that change, though.

male-eye-fokes

Zoraida will only be able to have 1 Totem in play with the Errata. The bringing out Totems without connecting them loophole is going away.

I'm sure it will be. But will Zoraida still be able to take totems from other factions and simply choose not to summon her voodoo doll?

I think Lalochezia's point was that the model would go into Defensive stance on turn 1, and then activate last on turn 2, effectively giving it two turns worth of protection for just one AP.

Personally, I enjoy having the game balance sometimes on who wins the iniative flip. You then get the gamble of "s it worth this soulstone to try to beat his 10?" Sure, sometimes your opponent flips a 13 and there's really no hope of going first, but unless they're using companion to activate all of their models before you go -- and I'm pretty sure only Ortegas and Seamus can do this -- you're still going to be able to activate your model and re-apply defensive stance (or whatever else you're using).

Yes, indeed, that was my point.

Defensive stance is good enough. Only one AP gives you three total flips for defense and the -2/-2 can easily be avoided by simply using it last. I've done the math in another thread but I'll say it again here: if Lilith or Perdita (or a buffed ronin for that matter, but this is less of a concern) enter into defensive stance then models with a combat of four (which includes the entire gremlin list except sommer) virtually can't hit them. If a df 8 model flips a 10 or higher then a cb 4 model can't hit it without the red joker. This means that Lilith or Perdita, in defensive stance, can not POSSIBLY be hit by gremlins 68% of the time...and they still probably don't get hit the other 32% of the time. All for 1 AP and a -2/-2 they didn't suffer.

So, while I agree that masters like Marcus would definitely benefit from this change, and that's a good thing, other masters could benefit far too much. However, if the entire thing (-2/-2 and all) lasted both turns, and they had to pay an AP for both turns, I would be cool with it. You could even make them two separate actions: one would be defensive stance just the way it is now, the other would be the one that lasts two turns.

*Giant Mosquito – Since the errata changed it from a Gremlin to a Vermin the value of this unit went from decent to nil. If you somehow make it to an enemy you can waste a 13 from your hand or get absurdly lucky to kill the enemy granted that they don't resist and stop it with your abysmal 2 Ca.

*Marks units I haven't used or seen used play in game

Well, until the FAQ comes out, if you have two giant mosquitoes next to each other, they have infinite movement and, once they get where they are going, they can still make an (all) action. And sommer teeth can ditch his opponent's fate hand. So the only real question about pulling off parasitic infection is whether you have the cards you need in your hand.

That's not even mentioning that they're df 7 and sommer's healing can have them at six wounds. And you can take four of them. And they can sling shot your pigs.

Yeah...they good.

@Angus: I'm gonna agree with your earlier statement... I routinely dish out hot exploding plates of whup-ass with Sonnia, and I got my ass handed to me left and right by Marcus last night. 24 inch movement followed by a beastly activation of my best character (and a +2 Df bonus while also behind hard cover!) the very next turn HUUUUUUUUUURTS.

@Lalo: When you think about it, there actually ARE masters with negative soul stone caches. All you gotta do is take any of the main 4 factions as your first master, and take the Viktorias as your second. BAM! Instant -5 SS.

~J~

Soooort of...

I see that as a penalty for using out of faction models, just like guild having to pay an extra soul stone to hire the convict gun slinger.

But if you did see it as a negative cache...why not just pay for it like any other model?

You know I was being sarcastically Ironic right?

I thought you probably were, but it didn't really matter.

If you didn't really think that way, the guy who started the thread did. It was a good place to make a point.

EDIT: Wall of text aside, I'm going to post the point of what I'm talking about before I talk about it.

Proposition: Take all/most of all of the defensive abilitys that models have, and make them last untill the start of their next activation.

The point of this being, the idea that something will drop defensive stance randomly every so often feels really wrong to me. Defensive abilitys in games that don't have conjoined turns last until your next turn, which works, but comes with the flaw of having nuke-turns where somebody focuses all their models on one thing. I prefer the way the turn structure works in Malifaux, I just feel that it means certain defensive abilitys don't quite function how I feel they should.

Things like Bishops cage fighter/adaptive fighter, everybodys defensive stance, anything of that nature. If they lasted til your next activation, then who wins initiative wouldent be such an enormous deal, and you wouldent be able to pressure somebody into activating another model so that you could get to another model before it could reapply it's abilitys. Also - it would just make Marcus a better master, as I think he's one of the models that suffers the most from this.

Oppinions anybody? If anyone can think of anything that would be wrong with this, then I'd like to hear it. I imagine with wider scrutiny some abilitys might not be viable for being made til next activation, but as a general rule, I think it fits almost everywhere.

Hmmm...

That's an interesting idea. I can see both sides to it. At the least, if you go into defensive stance and only need it that turn, then you still suffer the -2/-2 walk/charge on the next turn, which would be a good thing. I hate it when my opponents walk twice and then go into defensive stance. That -2 walk really hurt them. At least this way the penalty would definitely be suffered, and it may take pressure off of initiative.

Eh, I'd be ok with that change. And I play gremlins.

Edit: Thinking about it, this method would grant the model going into defensive stance an additional AP since now, you spend an AP going into defensive stance on the first turn, and another on the second turn. With your method, they dpend one AP on the first turn and it lasts through the next turn, saving you an AP. So I'd be ok with your method if it made the model slow on its next activation.

I would also wait until after the upcoming FAQ/errata to go buying totems from other factions for Zoraida, I don't know if she'll be able to take them. She might, but I wouldn't be terribly surprised if that changes since, right -- from a purely rules as written point of view -- Zoraida can have two totems in play, and I'm sure something will change to stop that.