paradox

Finally got the finishing touches on some Mali models. These are the ones I like using most, so they got paint 1st.

Lady Justice

The Judge

The Death Marshals

Scales of Justice

The Executioner

The Peacekeeper

just in case I accidently find myself in a Malifaux tourney while there.

Oh! Lookit that, I tripped and fell into this Mali tournie! Who woulda thunk it!

More Scissoring.

LOL whut!!??

I'll add that Justice REALLY likes alot of Stones. I find I rely on having the full 8 quite often, and when I don't I really notice the difference.

As for Sword-Styles, I find I use Fate more than anything else. Especially with a solid (but not very high) Ram in my hand. I very often have Justice at Cb11.

I use Onslaught next most often. You really want at least a couple good Masks if you choose to do this Style, plus at least a few stones. Normally, this is what I use to drop tough, meaty models (spend a turn or two stacking the hand before that).

I don't think I've ever used Vengeance. Either Fate gets Cb high enough that I'll be doing stupid amounts of damage per swing, or Onslaught (properly set up) will let me ping things down 4-5 damage at a time.

Collidi then. I have not seen him played either.

Here's one: When's that "Bowen" guy gonna get off his high horse and just accept that Justice is an awesome, complex, cool, and just plain kick-ass character with a lot of room for growth and development?

I do not recall ever playing against or seeing Sonnia played. I do not own her either (though I think I will at some point).

I have not seen Hoffman yet (obviously).

Lucius as well.

I have not faced Kirai or Molly.

I have not faced Collette. Or whoever the Arcanist Henchman is.

I have not faced the Dreamer, Zorida, or Nekima (is she the Neverborn henchman?)

Have not faced Leveticus or Von Schill.

To bring it back on the positive side, Death Marshals.

Do you generally prefer to Focus shots, or do you prefer to snap off two shots?

Personally, it's the latter. Focusing shot can help, but there is greater damage potential in two shots, and a high flip or a few high cards in hand can help drain out the opponent'd hand. I loved the ranged threat of a hail of lead from the marshals, especially when I get a few decent Rams in hand or on flips. Being able to crank out 4 damage on a weak is pretty saucey.

That's where having decent Rams (not having to be spectacular) comes in handy. Enough to make them blow out a higher card or face 4 damage, with another shot lined up for them either way.

When playing Justice, I like to stock up a hand with solid Rams and a couple high Masks (for riposte). Lots of answers in a hand like that.

Now if I could just get a decent draw on Scales 0 acton....

Pine Box...

Pine Box is a trap.

Not once (never, ever, EVER!) have I gotten it to work.

Never. Not even once. No matter how well I planned, not matter what card I dropped (yes, even a Red Joker!).

Every single time I have cast it, I have regretted it. I wasted a VERY high card, a whole activation, and usually a marshall on it (cause he got left with his pants down).

Offensively, Pine Box = the suck. Period.

Using it to transport models may be effective, but it's knida dumb and stupid, in-game. (Seriously, you stuffed yer buddy in a box of horrors?) I suppose there's some value there, but I haven't used it, probably in main because I play the game to have fun and not power through someone.

But Pine Box isn't fun, cause it never goes off. And trying just gets tedious after awhile.

In fact, I just recently tried it again, thinking I had a perfect situation, but it failed. It just ended up pissing me off.

Death Marshals are cool. But the box is just for looks.

6 wounds since when?

I'm currently in law school.

I think the Beast trait is hilarious.

I'm expecting my mask in the mail next week or two, btw.

Carry on, carry on.

I dunno. I also had the great misfortune of facing Hamelin, and I think I tend toward the camp of WTFBBQ currently.

It's true I haven't played against him since that game, but it's also very telling that I have absolutely no desire to either. Becuase it was the longest, most boring, most futile and frustrating game (of any game system) I have played in a long, long time. Frankly, I have better ways to spend my time than waiting about 2 hours to finally lose, as the opponent repeatedly activates models, then I get to move one, assuming it can actually do anything meaningful now. Rinse, repeat.

Hamelin may or may not be OP, but he left me with the distinct impression that he his the most boring master to have to face, and makes for the most tedious, frustrating game. That's just a bad sale-point for the game.

Has anyone collected the pics of the puppets shown, in one post?

Take lotsa pics!

I gotta get some gaming love somehow....

Difficult to comment on strategies & schemes as the ease/difficulty can depend on your opponent's crew and the terrain - even the set-up type. Hold Out is a standard scheme for many games, but useless against a fast moving crew like the showgirls.

Though Hold Out scores at the end of the game, so if the Showgirls make an early push, would you not simply shoot them down?

The only time I can recall I have NOT scored for this scheme in the past year was 1 game where a gremlin player flew a pig into my zone, then rooted it last turn. I was so far up-table that I couldn't get a bead on it in time to kill it with the closest marshal.

Then again, it was one of my 1st games vs gremlins, and one of the gremlin player's 1st games period. So alot of suprises happend on both sides.

In Hold Out (and with Guild in general) it seems pretty easy to take the approach of breaking off the closest thing to you, then moving to the next. That's why I like taking it, it almost guarantees VPs. But it doesn't make for exciting games, rather only contributes to an "army kill"mentality of play, which is why I'd rather it was removed completely, or at least heavily modified.

I should also add:

Do you prefer to announce schemes or not? Which ones?

Personally, I tend to announce. Better to have more VPs availible. I'm curious about how other folks approach this though. There is certainly merit in keeping some hidden.

For myself, I feel Guild is pretty good at killin'.

That said, I tend to play towards getting the scenario and schemes. I don't necessarily try to block my opponents schemes (if announced).

I only have a handful of models, so my lists are pretty much the same. I also have not played enough strategies enough times to have a real preference. But I think we are pretty good at holding a point. Or killin stuff.

In a competative environement, I have a hard time NOT taking Hold Out. So easy to announce and score on in a vast array of circumstances. I also find the master-specific ones to be pretty god-awful to accomplish, but fun to try nonetheless.

Typically I have taken the easiest possible schemes to score on, though my last few games I have made myself play master-specific.

I recently (re)learned I cold forego a scheme for more stones. I need to play with that more. Stones are damned handy, but not being able to rack as many VP as the other guy may dump you into an auto-lose situation.

I absolutely LOVE the Strategies and Schemes, and how they affect play. I continue to look forward to this aspect of the game developing.

Now I need to print and laminate the cards...

Simple questions: How do you approach the Strategies and Scheme(s)?

Do you simply build a list towards what your opponent is playing (faction-wise)?

Do you build a list towards the Strategy or Schemes?

Do you take 2 schemes, or one and the extra stones?

When you play, are you simply going for the kill, or for the VPs?

What strategies do you like best/which do you feel Guild is best at?

What schemes do you prefer to play?

I think I covered that in the outset with the whole "it's a game and don't be That Guy."

Thanks. I agree that playing "full-tilt" so to speak helps you learn alot.

Why am I writing this? Because I often see posters on forums asking questions like “Is this list good?” or “What is the most competitive caster/list/build/faction/etc?” or “I’m playing vs X/going to event X, what do you think of this/what should I take?” and this is my answer to those questions. It’s written with Warmachine/Hordes in mind, but should be broad enough to apply to most any game out there.

Why should you listen to me? Well, no more reason that to listen to anyone else here. That said, I have gamed for about 18 years now, 7 years with Warmachine. 4-5 of those years as a Press Ganger. We had a very active scene here locally too, where we were running 1 tournament a week, on average, for about a year or two. Yes, that is A LOT of games! Hence I have played many games, competitive and friendly, and seen a good deal more played in my events. I’ve watched players grow and learn over the years with the game too. And every player who consistently does well has these following elements in common.

So what does it take to be a better competitive player? The number one most important rule is to remember it’s just a game and fun is the ultimate goal. No one enjoys playing super-intense guy who hulks out when he loses, or bitter complainers. Stay friendly and open and enjoy yourself. If you’re not having fun, you’ve lost sight of the point. Step away for awhile, then come back.

In short, don’t be That Guy.

1. Practice makes perfect

You can’t get better if you don’t play. I don’t just mean playing the game regularly. I mean playing at minimum several games a week. Play at various point scales. Play various formats. Play on a lot of different tables: lots of terrain and little terrain and moderate terrain. Play in city boards, in swamps, in forests, in deserts. Play with timers. Play every scenario in a given format multiple times. Play every option you have in your force many times over until you can make any piece work well. Find what works for you and what doesn’t. There’s just no getting around playing a lot of games regularly to get better. It’s the 1st and most important step. Play a faction til you know it in your sleep. Til you can play any list from that faction and do well. Then move to the next, if you are so inclined.

Regular games several times a week keeps you fresh. You can see those interactions and options that “theory” says are cornercase or not worth a fig. Those are the things that will make you a better play. It’s what separates the men from the boys, so to speak. This is the hard work part, the 99% perspiration you need to get better. Occasionally jogging a bit doesn’t get you ready to run a marathon.

Second is who you play. Play vs as many factions and builds as you can. Play vs as many people as you can. Find the best players in your area and play them several times a week. Play vs new players or players that struggle to match you. Give them pointers (without being condescending). Show them how to beat you (honestly), then try to stop them. Travel outside of your local area to game in events further away. Travel to smaller cons and big cons. Play in as many events as you can. The more people you play against, the better. You being to truly see trends in overall faction style and playstyle. You being to recognize good and bad PLAYER matches and style match ups.

Playing vs the same person or small group only necessarily limits your learning capacity. You need to see as many people as possible behind as many wheels as possible. Like the above, it’s the necessary input to getting better. Playing the same group all the time only shapes you to those specific players. A new opponent might totally throw you off with a different style of play from what you are accustom to. The broader your exposure, the better player you will be.

2. Know thy enemy, know thyself

You have to know more than the faction you’re playing. You have to know them all. You DON’T have to play them all (but that will certainly help you a lot, and should be considered). You MUST absolutely know the faction you are playing at that time though, number one. Know every possible way to play it. Shore up your weak points. Make sure you can play the styles you DON’T typically like to play. But more important, be the BEST at what you’re best at. Whatever faction/style of play suits you best, that’s your pony. Ride it. Filling in gaps and working on weaknesses is good, but bettering your best is how you truly take things to the next level. Find your favored style of play. Know its limitations and its possibilities. Find the lists and pieces that work best FOR YOU.

Once you have that down, know what’s coming at you. You have to know what every faction can do and what every piece can do. You have to be able to spot the trick before it starts hitting you. You have to be able to break the chain, take out the weak links and cripple their plan before it ever takes off. You have to read all the rules, know all the wordings. Keep up on the errata. Maybe not by heart, but enough that you will know most lists better than the guy running them. Don’t just settle for knowing the common meta of theory, look for tricks yourself that other people don’t know. Don’t treat any piece as sub-par. Know and appreciating fully its capabilities and possible synergies. If you don’t know what something does, it could easily lose you games.

3. Brainstorming

Now that you have done the above, you are ready to ask, having tried things out, what do other think. Ask people you respect. Ask the people you think are better players. Then go back to step one and start all over. Don’t just leave it at the theory stage. This is the planning stage for your next step, not some academic debate or exercise.

Simple, eh? It’s a lot more rigor than most put in. Put in the games. Face as many players as you can in as many different situations as you can. Do your homework and make plans, then execute them. There’s no easy fix. Net-decking a list won’t help you get better. Sure, sometimes the new hotness will let you trick people and garner you wins, but it won’t last long. Getting input on a list you haven’t played yet is pretty worthless in the overall: you have nothing against which to judge the various opinions and suggestions, and chances are, the random internet guy or even regular chat buddy doesn’t know you or your play style from a hole in the wall.

Hopefully these 3 simple tenants will help you be the better player you want to be. Feedback and thoughts are welcome. Flames help no one. J

At the risk of starting this up again, it was less a focus on her 5 Df, and more a comment (which really seemed to rub some posters the wrong way)

Here's how I find Justice survives best: flanking, control hand and stones.

Seriously.

1. Flanking: I almost always flank Justice. She's fast, you don't lose alot from her being on a flank, and what you do lose, you more than get back in psychology and the "weedwacker" effect when she cuts in from a flank. Her 2" melee + extra melee attack means she can move in, destroy something, then move another 5" plus her melee range to stay engaged. You have to space you models more than 7" apart laterally to avoid this, and frankly, it doesn't happen alot. If nothing else, if they turn to face justice, the marshalls go to town from the side and blow them apart. I've faced some masters (Pandora) where this doesn;t work out so well, but I think it's more how nasty Pandora is, more than anything else. It works VERY well vs Lilith for me. She tries to stay very far away from my Cb9-11.

2. Control hand: Aside from a stash of nice Rams (for double crits hitting weak for 4 damages each from the marshalls) I like to try and keep 1-2 nice high masks for Justice. When I flank, I usually have a few turns to fish these out of the deck, so when she does hit, I have some nasty ripostes up my sleeve. Marshalls can die if I don't flip well and can't spare them the mask. At least they get a parting shot. Justice is much more valuable.

3. Stones: I just find she needs a solid stash, like 6-8. Use liberally once you hit their lines. With sword style, she doesn't need to worry about stoning most swings, so she can use them to add to Df (and maybe trigger further ripostes) or to heal/prevent damage.

That's how I keep Justice alive. Df5 is not great, but she has a gross Df trigger you can easily stack for and she comes with 4 stones, so saving just 2 more somewhere at minimum helps alot. That, and make them work to get at her.

I am inspired.

Thanks, that's why I ask. Just want to know. I'll take any leverage I can get.

Say Bowen, question. The 1st time I faced Pandora, IIRC, I wanted to use Blind Justice to overcome Expose Fears and, so far as I recall, you said it didn't work like that.

Blind Justice (aura 6"): Friendly models ignore increases in Rg and Df and any Duels required from spells or talents to target models.

Expose Fears: Enemies attempting to target this model for any reason must first win a Wp->Wp Duel or immediately end the Action.

How does the 2nd part of Blind Justice not avoid Expose Fears? Expoase Fears is a Talent and it requires a duel to target said model.

Now, I assume (not knowing every Talent or spell) that Blind Justice is supposed to overcome stuff like Harmless.

Harmless: Enemy models must win a Wp->12 Duel when targetting this model with an attack or the Action fails immediately.

If anything, "when" implies that it does NOT require a duel TO target you, only a duel to not fail the action. Whereas "attempting" much more strongly implies a duel required TO target you. I'd say that if Blind Justice does work vs Harmless (I'm assuming it's supposed to) then it should definitely work vs Expose Fears. If it does not work vs Expose Fears, then it certainly does not work vs Harmless.

If the latter is the case, then it is contrary to the plain wording (which is why I went to the trouble to do this homework in the 1st place). It's why I tried it the 1st game and not today, but browsing my options for some angle, I came across it again. I'd appreciate some clairity.