paradox

Someone opined that the FILTH list was not fun to play against. You attempted to reason out why they were wrong (ie, the game is there to have tough combos to beat. Beating tough combos is part of the game. The game is fun. Therefore, FILTH is fun to play against).

This is incorrect. The reason it is incorrect is that you cannot tell someone they are actually having fun when they feel they are not.

If someone does not enjoy playing against FILTH, you cannot "fix" that for them with some sort of argument. I used Hamelin as a personal example. I've only faced a version of FILTH once, and the player barely bothered to use it to full effect on me. He just flat out owned me with Pandora herself instead.

I find Pandora tough but a challenge worth meeting. I might change my mind, depending on further play vs FILTH.

However, I find Hamelin no fun at all, whether I can win or not. A Player who feels so about a FILTH list derserves to have their opinion, and you have no place in trying to reason them out of it. Simply accept they don't like it and move on.

You appear to feel FILTH is fine and a good challenge for the game. Great. Others don't. Also great. Trying to tell someone they are wrong for not enjoying playing vs FILTH is not so great.

EDIT: Here's a good summary: You find someone having a certain opinion annoying. I find it annoying that you feel entitled to your opinion, but are annoyed by an opinion not in line with yours. If you cannot respect that a differing opinion exists, what's the point of further discussion? You don't respect where the other side is coming from.

"A: FILTH is unfun to play against, even if it can be beaten."

"B: Your opinion is wrong. It IS fun to play against. You are annoying for not agreeing with me."

No' date=' I'm asserting it isn't too polite to bring emotions into rational argument. Why do complete strangers need to know you have no fun against the crews they perhaps play? And why can't they tell in return that they have no fun reading such posts?[/quote']

The point of the game is to have fun.

My opponent has a combo that, for me, breaks that fun element.

But I'm the rude one for being honest and declining the game.

Clearly, I must be in it for the wrong reasons, ie, to have fun.

If I don't enjoy a particular match, it's better not to play it. I hate playing vs Hamelin. Declining the game is not rude, it's better for both players. I spare him the bitching during and after the game, and I spare me the misery of watching my force ever so slowly dissolve, while unable to do anything about it.

If you find that fun, more power to you. Strokes and folks. But don't tell me I'm rude because I don't share your idea of fun. That is rude in and of itself.

The *no fun* argument is really the most annoying part of these discussions. These lists are there to be beaten. It is a miniature game. Miniature games are for people who have fun beating other people's list. Ergo it is fun to play against FILTH lists.

You're asserting it can't possibly be unfun to play vs X combo.

The *no fun* argument is really the most annoying part of these discussions.

See, this arguement doesn't work. When someone expresses a subjective opinion, it is their opinion. There is no counterpoint to it.

If something is no fun to someone, it is no fun to that person.

You saying otherwise is like your Dad telling you that you're going to like something, whether you like it or not!

This is pretty much how I feel with my Hamelin crew. Every time I bust him out, my friends will give me s**t for weeks about "that game with Hamelin" where I completely stomped them. The problem is, you can't NOT do that with some masters. If you don't use the basic abilities of the master, then you're sandbagging and losing on purpose, which isn't the right way to go about it either. As a dremaer player you could...not drop your whole crew turn 1, you could not prime all of your models with terror 12 and defensive before you go in, but you will, again...be sandbagging.

It sucks because I was drawn to Hamelin and his fluff from the moment I opened book 2 last year, but now I feel bad every time I put him on the table and just end up pissing my friends off.

The problem with Hamelin (as well as Pandora and the Ortegas) is that the GAME is alternate activation of single models with action points, but these models break that. Being able to activate multiple models sequentially is INCREDIBLY powerful, or being able to continually take actions.

Not only does it make the game drag for the other player (they are actively sidelined by your model selection) but it also tends to allow the player to tear the opponent a new one, only further exacerbating the activation deficit.

That's the worst thing about Hamelin. The game is just SO BORINGLY LONG! There's 5 min of me activating, then 30 min of slowing getting chewed down, marking damage, and slowly pulling models off. Then not being able to retaliate meaningfully.

I don't feel that Wyrd has properly gauged the power of the ability to break this part of the game format, hence these issues arise.

This is how I feel about Hamelin. I refuse to play against it.

I have not yet faced Dreamer/alps.

The best way to use it is pretend they don't have it, then spend 2 actions blasting them for 4 damage a pop with Rams from your hand.

I heard Stokes was bringing up Lady J and 6 marshals + stuff.

Hows he doing?

I've been enjoying this list lately.

Justice

3x death marshals

Santiago

Francisco

Samael

7ss

I'll disagree.

I think they are fine at 4ss. They just happen to have a worthless ability.

Here's the problem with Pine Box:

Marshals are Ca4:rams. Pine Box is CC: 12:crows. You need an 8:crows just to get it off. And a 12 is not terribly hard to resist on WP. Most models WP will be equal or better than the DM cast.

Next, it's a 2 action. In other words, a whole activation. There are so many better ways to spend an activation than blowing out a high card on a model that either A) isn't worth bothering to box, or will simply resist anyway.

Very cool idea. Absolutely crappy execution. It has been consistently the most disappointing game mechanic I have seen in a long time. I just pretend they don't have it now.

(3rd) Kurt - Arcanists (Marcus)

HOLY $#!+!!!!!!!!

I don't even know what the most amazing part of this is.....

I had a fun game with Jake's friend (?name?)! Got to play around with a list I've been thinking about, and also got completly OWNED by Papa Loco! Holy crap! I had 3 shots to take 1 wound off the bugger, and somehow he didn't die when I wanted him to!

Aside from watching almost 24ss worth of models evaporate (seriously, who flips the Red on their initial flip for Take ya with me? Try to dodge that....), it was a blast!

Probably no sooner than 6. Maybe 5:30, but I'm not promising that.

I'll be around tomorrow, looking to grab soem Mali games before school takes over. What are the chances of getting a game or two in, despite the league?

What if 90% of all Guild Crews were led by Lucius? What if 99%?

Even if you wanted to determine who the most popular master was, you could still gleen this information from the poll if it included Lucius, but it would show all sorts of other interesting things as well...

For what it's worth, I agree with you. If the object is to fidn out what model is leading most Guild crews, you should include all models capable of leading the crews. That includes Henchmen.

If you are worried about tells while playing this game, you're doing it wrong.

You know what I noticed? Alot of those puppet models had big boobs that are totally fake looking. Even the gunslinger.:whistle:

It could also be the American culture and its fascination with big boobs and a tendency to extrapolate specific likes as universal?

Says the man with a large-breasted model as an avatar???

The first name I say: So-knee-ah.

I always took it to be a takeoff on old West. Ie, someone phonetically spelling their name. With a western twang.

I am soooooo looking forward to the new Conan movie next week.

Werd to the nerd on that. Definitely looking forward to it. Should be fun. Though Ahhhnold will always be my Conan.

Krid

And what has that got to do with anything? Your previous "/thread" comment didn't seem to have anything to do with anything, either.

Did you know that the target market also likes space marines? Why aren't there any space marines in Malifaux? Would you like there to be?

I seriously don't see the target market being "male 18-35" precluding variation in the female minis as I doubt that people are so desperate for the basic barbie minis that they buy everyone they see and somehow refuse to buy non-barbie female minis.

I feel that the popularity of Belles is proof enough.

Variations are exceptions to the general rule.

Female models have big boobs and male models are macho and manly because most males 18-35 like that and they think it's cool.

I like Macho men and big boobs. You probably do too, whether you will admit it or not.

It makes for cool minis and games.

Im OK with that.

Silly girls, minis are for guys.

All joking aside, you know I'm right.

Just because women play mini games does not make them the target market.

Target market = males (Western/developed countries) 18-35.

/Thread.