Isoulle

Other than making her shoot herself with Candy, Pandora and maybe a Totem, what have you found to be your most effective way of isolating her and dropping her quickly? I am taking Pandora out for the first time tomorrow night...

If you're willing to proxy/use non-boxset models. Bad JuJu, Mature/Young Neph, Hooded Rider and the Silurids can all engage her quickly and most of those models hit like a ton of bricks...

Just remember to be afraid of obey.... Very afraid...

no, someone said Leveticus...I don't know who this Leveticus fellow is you and Buggy keep talking about...

*Sniff Sniff*

Don't even joke about that.

You can be so mean sometimes Eric...

Don't worry. The loyal Leveticus followers will make up for that in double time. Especially when the Engine comes out. Such a beautiful model.

*Runs into the room*

Sorry I'm late. Did someone say Leveticus?

Very cool game and a fun read. Glad you enjoyed the game...

Necropunks make prety good speedbumps, especially in pairs. Leap makes them useful for engaging annoying troops like Hans so they can disrupt your army.

Punk zomies are great shock troops. cb 7 + Paired is fantastic and really is the Res answer to high def troops. They do have the problem of being shot a lot, but hey, everythings gotta have a weakness...

Crooked men are always a good option v shooting list as they're tough as nails for their ss cost, doubly so against ranged armies. I must admit I'm a big fan.

Lastly, the nurses. I'd never take more than one personally. They're quite good but I find 1 does the job. A rotten belle might be an idea. Lure really makes up for the lack of ranged potential in the Res list, doubly so with Mcmourning who loves getting close to the enemy. Lure + Scalpel Slinging + Fast gives Mcmourning a lot of threat range and he can still attack a lot if he moves thanks to Magic with the scalpel.

Just my two cents.

Yeah, overspecialization is what I'm afraid of. If you take Lady Justice you have 25% chance of fighting against Resurrectionists, but that leaves you with 75% against other teams (leaving Guild-Guild clashes out of it). How does Guild cope in competetive play when matched not with their favourite pray? I know it all depends on the player, but let's imagine a situation with two players of ideally equal skill.

This is why I'm a fan of balanced lists. It's annoying to have such clear cut good and not so good matchups that Guild theme armies create. I mean, Sonnia Criid loses a lot of effectiveness if your enemy is running a non-spellcaster list, doubly so if you run her box. It's not insurmountable by any means but in my mind it's best to not specialize in a tournament situation. The Guild stuff is good enough to hold it's own, even without the faction buffs.

If you wanna have some fun with her use repulsive to advance your army. Keep your army around her then in one turn Repulsive, move, repulsive again for a nice 9" of army movement...

I think Joss is an absolutely amazing choice for Rasputina, I must admit I have a hard time imagining a list with her and not with him...

Honestly my play style is to build balanced lists to deal with any situation. As such my units fill in the gaps in my masters abilities. For Rasputina I like using fast/heavy hitters. The sabertooth, Nephilim, Joss, Large Arachnid swarm, etc. The Gaimin/Golem are still good, and definitely an option, I just like covering her weaknesses.

I just meant she can deal with the masters pretty well by making voodoo dolls of enemy models and then using Obey to have them mess with the opposing master. Nothing like a fully charged Joss suddenly turning on an unsuspecting Ramos.

Of course, you're only going to get away with that trick a few times before people start remembering that once there's a voodoo doll in place, that model is no longer entirely friendly.

Obey is still a great spell. Poor Zoraida is still the only master in the game who has no hope if the game gets down to master v master. Sure some are better than others in this situaiton but Zoriada's player does not have a good time with this...

Zoraida's fine. That errata just prevents her from doing things like making arachnids pop. Voodoo Dolls still make her amazing, and with the Sillurids running around and JuJu lurking in the background, she's solid. She's actually my favorite Neverborn master. She also lets you bring some Gremlins to the party.

When it comes to scary Neverborn models, The Hooded Rider is amazing, and I can't wait to see the sculpt.

I never said there was anything wrong with Zoriada, she's quite good. I just said she just has a problem dealing with masters by herself. I mean, there's not a lot she can do to them aside from preventing them from using Control Cards (Which is not bad mind you). She relies on the rest of the army to deal with them. Her job is to deal with everything else for the most part.

The Neverborn are the control/speed faction. They lack ranged potential but make up for it in speed and general nastiness....

Pandora: Pandora is control. She has lots of spells that cause morale duels and some solid debuffs. She has some odd synergy with her models and due to her less direct nature is one of the harder masters to play. She's really cool though and due to her control nature army lists with her tend to have an agressive bent to compenate and indeed capitalize on her abilities.

Lilith: Lilith is the speed demon (literally). She is extremely fast and she hits like a ton of bricks. Her army tends to be good old fashion blitzkrieg and she's quite good at it. She does lack toughness though and while her defense is high her and her units tend not to be high on wounds. You can take her with other units however. Running her with units like the hooded rider and Bad Ju Ju can make for a very nasty speed blunt force list.

Zoriada: Zoriada is another control master. Though rather than using morale duels like Pandora she has ability denial spells and is shockingly tough for a mage master (High def, abilities that make her hard to catch). Her big weakness is that with the new obey errata she has trouble dealing with masters by herself. She has a lot of army flexiblity but her boxset is pure angriness (Silurids and bad juju are very nasty) and playing her with a lot of hard hitting models (whether her box set or others, lots of flexiblity there) is probably the way to go to compensate for inability to fight masters by herself.

That's my two cents

I understand most of the arguements you are guys are saying is supposed to make Pandora cool, and I think vs a melee army you are correct. However against an army that can sit back and shoot and with resonable success drop 2-3 blast templates per spell and throw that spell several times per round she dies in quick order.

Even being able to move the damage to the woes doesnt help due to the fact that they are taking the blast damage as well so they just die all the faster leaving you with only your master on the table.

The issue is you can just kill all her other models then worry about the WP checks to kill her, and in the instance of criid a couple key spell reflects from her minions or auto counterspells can spell your doom.

In the game we played a spell reflect pulled (Allure I think was the spell he tried to use)baby Kade to to the criid team who them wiped him out solo in quick order then used Samuel to mow down Candy with his RoF of 3 with flaming bullets, then finished off the round with tons of fire blast attacks from criid, and using her totem. Game was over before it even really started.

Harmless is well about harmless...most guild only need like a 6 to beat it. Not one attack was stopped from harmless.

Maybe in larger games Pandora shines IDK, but in 25 SS games she seems pretty weak. General opinion from the 5 of us around the table playing was she was very weak in comparision. THe sorrows while having some cool abilities, have to use 1-2 actions to use most of them. So if you have to move you cant use paralize thus limiting their use alot vs Guild teams which pretty much all have guns of roughly range 10 plus range 10 spells. Given we dont have all of the starters as of yet but we played with 7 different starters multiple games over 2 days as I was teaching some friends the game. Which they all loved but Pandora was avoided like the plague very quickly after this game.

Maybe once Teddy is released luck will improve with this team, as him with Kade should be cool...however we dont like to play with proxies unless we absolutely have to such as with liliths team, but we have alot of normal size demon models from other games we sub'd for that till they release the immature nephs.

Truth be told, in 25 point games I don't tend to run any sorrows, and in larger point games only a few. They're good models, but support units and like any support unit you don't want to spend a lot of points on them. I'd seriously advise trying her with more big angry units. She really needs to run some speed melee units to get in and start killing stuff. Sonnia requires fast engaging to beat as she has lots of range attacks and blast templates

And I mean, seriously, who didn't want ninja dwarves?

I prefer to think of them as Jawas....

I find the Ortega box does really well once you toss in a melee model. The army list really needs that good melee model to backup its shooting. And while Perdita is pretty good at that, she's rather fragile. I find tossing in an Executioner or a Judge rounds out the list rather nicely. Prevents speed armies like Liliths from just engaging huge chunks of your army quickly before you get a chance to shoot.

yes it is range 12, but you still have to cast spells on the enemy models to make them make WP checks and many of the spells take at least one action, plus you will often have to move at least 1 action.

So in a game with missions such as take and hold, assassinate, recon, grab the box... the enemy can wait for you to walk into kill range and then just unload with ranged damage before you can get many casts off.

Try pandora against Criid lol.....reflect magic minions, and her ability to just cancel spells within 3" = game over before it starts.

Just our experience so far

I think Pandora's battle box has a bit of a hard time with Sonnia. However Pandora with some proper army tweaking works well. I find her starter box is a little too focused and this results in it doing really well in some matchups and really bad in others (As specialized armies tend to do). Thankfully there are plenty of models in the army to fix this (Teddy, Mature Neph, Young Neph, Silurid, Ju Ju just to name a few) and with proper army balancing she can deal with most lists.

Admit it Isoulle. You are a sucker for the ladies.

Me and my relationship with the Rotten Belles is NOT up for discussion...

...

>_>

Move along folks, nothing to see here.

McM is my primary Res master. He's got a lot of good army options but one thing I haven't heard people talk about that I think is fantastic with McM are rotten belles. McM is a close combat beast and the res are a close combat faction. Moving in enemy units is a really strong ability with such a list. With scalpel slinging and fast McM has a lot of range, and once you toss lure in he can threaten huge portions of the board.

Just throwing it out there. There is a lot of potential for interesting lists and you should run what suits you. The Rotten belles are just a personal preference of mine (1-2 in 35 SS).

No comment. And you may be visited by a Necrosurgeon soon. Fix that brain problem right up.

Ummmm, for king and country?

...

I got nothing...

Glad you enjoyed the game. Hope to see you around these parts more...

Good to know another palyer is enjoying dear sweet Levi (Though Ambrose did beat me to the response...)

Abominations are overcosted, they are designed that way as you can spawn them so easily. General rule is to take none at start but spawn them like crazy...

As for Desolation engine, he's good, if somewhat fragile for his cost. One thing you have to factor into his cost is that he spawns 2 abominations on death. This gets you halfway there for another one. With Levi it's all about synergy synergy synergy.

As for Levi, don't be afraid to take units from other armies. His ability to hire enemy constructs is amazing and allows you to build some very flexible armies with him. There's a lot of choice with Levi, probably the most out of any master when it comes to army design. He's just ever so much fun....

More Ortegas?

Naaa. Just more punching bags! (I feel quite vindicated in spouting the superiority of the Arcanist Syndicate after the drubbing Sonnia received from Ramos.)

Keep on fighting. Remember it's the Res who truly win the battlefield....

I always go back and forth on Lilith for demo use. She's very simple but on the flip side she's very strong fundamentally, not relying on complex interactions. She just sorta works. It usually gives the person playing her a leg up as she doesn't require finesse. However this can be a boon as you can give it to someone you're demoing to because it makes it easier to let them win since winning tends to increase someones interest in a game.

The Guild tend to be good, as does Ramos and Rasputina I find as they can be played without a a lot of knowledge of the game and have very good starter boxes. Red Chappel and Nicodem isn't too bad too.

Are you suggesting, like Tinkerbell, that Weird Sketch is a fairy, and that if we don't believe in fairies that they will fall out of the sky, shrivel up into brittle husks, and die?

I love Tinkerbell! (and am moderately fond of Weird Sketch.)

I do believe in fairies!

Tinkerbell! You're alive!

Ahem... Ahh...

Right. Sorry, got a little carried away. That went to a weird place, there.

I..... Have to go now...

*Backs away slowly trying to avoid making eye contact*

By the simple fact that we are talking about him, doesn't that make him real? An idea may exist in a much more ephemeral state than a solid object, but it exists, none-the-less. Even if WEiRD sKeTCH's existence is limited to discussions on his nonexistence, that is, in itself, proof of his existence.

Q.E.D.

Curses, don't point this out to them. Remember I originally supported WS not existing because I wanted to test a theory that if enough people don't believe in him he'll stop existing. You're ruining the experiment....