Bishop vs Taylor

[Seazan]

Hi all,

after playing quite a bit in first edition I unfortunately have barely played in 2nd ed which makes my understanding some what limited, but time to start playing again. I'm running Outcasts and mostly Viks, because i like them i just cant help myself, and we play mostly 50ss in my gaming group. When it came to fleshing out the crew (after Viks, vanessa and a couple of ronin) I looked at Taylor and Bishop, they both appear to be great characters and as they both cost the same ss can you help me work out which to choose. I know it is very dependent on opponent and schemes but I was just after a general idea of how these two BEAT STICKS go and how and if they complement the Viks. 

Thanks heaps for you help

[Kadeton]

Ah, one of my favourite discussion points.

 

Both Taelor and Bishop are great combat beaters with slightly different skills. I would generally break them down like this:

 

Taelor is tough. Like, really tough. Hard to Wound, Hard to Kill, and soulstone use make her a real challenge to take down for all but the most combat-focused models. Even against the game's toughest opponents, she can go toe-to-toe and have a good shot at coming out the victor. This is backed up by a properly solid melee attack with a bunch of useful triggers, a great damage track and a huge range. As icing on the cake, against the hardest melee opponents in the game (big Constructs like the Peacekeeper and Howard) she gets a massive damage boost.

 

Unfortunately, Taelor is slow. Sloooooow. She doesn't have any bonus AP, and her Wk is only 4. I had one memorable game where she faced off against a Malifaux Cherub - she couldn't dodge its attacks, which meant that once the first arrow landed, she was trapped for the rest of the game and couldn't do anything. She needs the support of nearby friendlies to help her out, and in return she can protect her allies by aiming at the biggest threat on the board and smashing it to bits.

 

Bishop, on the other hand, is a one-man team. He's not as tough as Taelor, but he's harder to land a hit on, and punishes people when they miss. He's got a whole toolbox of cool triggers from which he can pick and choose as he likes, he exploits his opponents' weakest stats for incredibly reliable attacks, and he can keep most models, even Masters, stunlocked for the whole game if they're not careful. He's great both as a front-line combatant mixing it up in the main melee, or as a roaming agent beating up enemy scheme-chasers. He's got three AP which stack with Fast - ever wanted to Charge a model and then Flurry, for five attacks?

 

His weakness is that he can't stand up to heavy hitters unless he gets the jump on them. Without any damage mitigation, anyone that can reliably hurt him (basically anyone with Ml, Ca or Sh 7+, or indirect damage) will take him down fast.

 

It's also worth noting in the comparison that Taelor can take two upgrades (Scramble and Oathkeeper are very nice) whereas Bishop can only take one.

 

Taelor basically excels in scenarios where she can amble over to an area and smash anyone who comes close. In situations where the enemy can afford to just avoid her, she's not very useful. Things like Turf War and Protect Territory are her favourites.

 

Bishop is less smashy but way more mobile, so he's best in situations where you want to divide your forces. He can fight his way through several weak opponents (or one big opponent) easily, so he's great at things like Reconnoiter and Breakthrough.

 

Both of them are incredibly useful with the Viks. However, I generally wouldn't take both in the same crew except under special circumstances, since they're very expensive in stones. Ideally your hiring pool would include both, since their strengths lie in different areas and you'll get plenty of use out of them, but if I had to choose one it would be Bishop. He's simply more versatile.

 

Hope that helps! (Viktoria is the best Master in the game, good choice.)

[MasterDisaster]

Lets start with Taelor as she comes with the Viks plastic kit. 

 

Taelor is very tough to take down, 9 Wds, HtK, HtW and a fairly decent stat line. She packs one of the 3 Relic Hammers in the game which has a number of real nice triggers and a devastating damage track (3/4/6 if I remember right)and a 3" engagement range. She has two types of attacks. a (1) with all the bells and whistles and the (2) Hammerfall which deals a straight 3 damage but also deals damage to others within close proximity and pushes them away. She also has a very useful and often situational (0) Called Welcome to Malifaux meaning she can charge a newly summoned model so long as it is within her threat range and LoS. On top of ALL this she is a Henchman so can take 2 upgrades and has the use of SS. 

 

Overall I rate Taelor an 8.5/10 because she is tough, hits like a freight train however with various upgrades she can become quite expensive and she is fairly slow with only a walk 4 and charge of 6 however this can be mitigated by the use of the Scramble upgrade. 

 

Bishop... well for 10ss you are basically buying yourself an incredibly versatile Mini-Master. He generates 3 AP all day long, upon activation can choose a suit to add to all his duels for that turn AND can decide to attack WP or DF depending on his mood! His DF trigger is built in so he has a mini Riposte which can quickly rack up the hurt. His (1) attack only does 2/3/4 damage but given its high stats and choice of triggers it can be devastating, especially as he can garantuee the suits he needs. He also comes with a (2) attacks but I'm afraid I can't remember what it does. I think Paralyze comes to mind with that attack but for the LIFE of me I can't remember. Defensively Bishop lacks what Taelor has other than his DF Trigger but he makes up for this by being able to overwhelm the opponent with damage and versatility. He is an ex-cage fighter and so had to be versatile and adaptive, this is very much how he works. Don't think he can tank people all day long though, it wont take much to bring him down. He is an enforcer so only has access to one upgrade and cannot use SS. 

 

Overall I rate Bishop also an 8.5/10 maybe even a 9. He is very good and often crops up in many of my Outcasts lists. He dishes out the hurt, is fast, fairly tough and comes in at a similar cost to Taelor. He often is my go to guy with Tara, give him fast then launch him at an enemy master... They wont thank you for it! 

 

Hope this helps. 

[Drool_bucket]

both above posters have great takes that I really can't dispute and see very little need to add on too.

 

The funny thing is as a regular Viks player I don't use either of them.  I find the Sisters certainly capable of killing anything in the game and I spend a ton of resources keeping them alive, getting them "powered up" and AP getting them to where they need to be.  I much prefer more support/objective runners that also keep your Activation Count high to allow the Sisters to go last in an effort to protect them even further.

 

Now, if we are talking Tara I think both are such great choices for her that you can't go wrong with either.

 

Leveticus would probably lean on Lazarus and Rusty before either of them.

 

Von Schill prefers hitters with Friekorps in their name like the SSA and Lazarus.    Though I can see instances where Bishop would really benefit from the Steam Trunk's healing and his ability to control areas of the board.  It would free up VS to do more running, I would think

 

Misaki could make use of either with little issues.  I feel both are stronger choices than Ototo.

 

Hamelin, well I think Killjoy is still the obvious choice, but if I was going to pick between these two I would go with Taelor if only because Hamelin can Pipes/Obey Taelor into position a whole lot easier.  Matter of fact, I could see instances in games against aggressive crews Taelor being a better selection than Killjoy because she holds up so much better.

 

I have no experience with Jack Daw.

 

Finally, in a breakdown of Strategies I would look at it the following way...

 

Turf War - Taelor.  She sits  in one location better and her (0) welcome to Malifaux can shut down opponents from summoning into the middle with much success.

 

Squatter's Rights - Bishop.  He can get up and activate and hold a flank by himself against most opponent's Objective Runners.

 

Reckoning - Both.  Neither lie down easy.

 

Reconniter - Neither.  There are cheaper models out there to keep your count high.  Taelor if I had to choose.

 

Stake a Claim - Bishop.  He can take the place of your Master and get to the other side (especially with an Oathkeeper) and start putting down Claim Markers each turn and is good enough to keep himself in the game.

 

So, as you can see, it's pretty much down the middle of where the two sit in my book.

[Ratty]

I think Taelor could be amazing with Jack Daw, give her Tormented turn 1 from one of your Guilty and Jack Daw can improve her speed by up to 7" in a turn. Seeing as speed is her major issue, it really makes her much more versatile. You can steal her hammer attack to give Jack a very decent damage arc, or even get her to attack an additional time.

[rancor709]

I like them both a lot. And have used both and will continue to use both in a lot of outside outcast builds as mercenaries. 

 

Bishop-tends to get my vote more often than Taelor but that is mainly because a lot of taelors pluses are found on Johan who is substantially cheaper. That Said welcome to malifaux can help but a damper on certain summoners days.