Novice Questions

[Getyerbro]

So we have a very new malifaux community at the local hobby shop and I have a few general questions the community has been confused about.  These are more general questions rather than Gremlin questions but im a gremlins player and I figured you guys could answer just as well.

Question 1: If the player loosing the duel declines the choice to cheat, but then the player with the higher duel total decides to cheat, does the loosing player get another chance to cheat?

 

Question 2:  Does the player with the lower duel total still have to be the first one to cheat if the other player does not have the necessary suit to make the attack hit or work in the first place?

 

Hope I didn't word those questions too confusingly.

[Falconrider]

No and No :-)

[Malal]

No and Yes. The player with the lowest duel total always cheats first even if the attacker has not hit their target number or is missing a suit needed for success

[Falconrider]

If an action doesn't achieve success it would need to be cheated first in order for it to succeed regardless of duel totals. 

[rgarbonzo]

That is incorrect, the person losing the duel decides to cheat.

 

Pg 32 Choose to Cheat Fate

The model with the lower duel total must choose whether or not to cheat fate. If the models' duel totals are tied then the defender must choose whether to Cheat Fate or not.

[Ausplosions]

If an action doesn't achieve success it would need to be cheated first in order for it to succeed regardless of duel totals.

Completely incorrect.

[Falconrider]

So i have been playing it wrong, mostly to my own detriment.  Just to clarify the correct ruling.  If i flip a card but don't get the suit e.g. An Oiran's lure without the crow and my duel total is higher, then the opponent cheats first knowing the lure isn't going off unless i cheat in a crow or can choose not to cheat hoping i don't have the crow.

[Mike3838]

That's right - it's a gamble on the defender's part, because you might decide not to cheat in your crow and then they wasted a card. Although the card might not have been wasted if it was the cheated card itself that discouraged you from cheating in your crow

[Fetid Strumpet]

Correct. A required target number, or suit requirement for an ability only matters at all at the very end of the duel. All opposed duels play exactly the same, and at the end of the duel once you determine that you have actually beaten the defender's duel total, you then check to see if there are any other requirements that need to be completed for the duel to succeed.

That isn't an official order of operations explanation, just a mental construct, a way to look at duels so that the way they work makes sense.

[Darguth]

It's a dumb way to handle it and generally unintuitive IMO, but once you understand that's how it actually works (lowest duel total always cheats first, regardless of actual success of the attacker) it's not too bad since it's a very hard-and-fast rule.