PolishSausage Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 The Dessert Demo table is around 50% terrain, if you collected up the terrain on one side of that board I doubt it would go past the center line. But those tournament tables had practically no cover.. it was straight up trees spread out.. and if you collected them up I doubt it would have even been 15% terrain. In fact If you take a equilateral triangle as they tessellate.. and put tree bases in it. you get in 1 base + 6 halves, for 3 sixth of terrain.. that works out as 0.5/4 so 12% terrain.. You are saying that Belles are overpowered when you have 12% terrain on the board.. which I have to agree with, they probably are. That is rude you think we have 1 table with 1 type of terrain at a group that has been beta testing the game since 2009 like we said not ALL table look alike some have more some have less terrain this picture depicts only a portion of the table correct? Again I think the issue has jumped to terrain and malifaux and not cating 8 lure that is a single 1 ap action that can dictate the flow of the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeton Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 scoring minions that dont need other support pieces to achieve objectives? Yep! Both of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 That is rude you think we have 1 table with 1 type of terrain at a group that has been beta testing the game since 2009 like we said not ALL table look alike some have more some have less terrain this picture depicts only a portion of the table correct? Again I think the issue has jumped to terrain and malifaux and not cating 8 lure that is a single 1 ap action that can dictate the flow of the game All I have to go on are all the tables that were shown from that tornament and all of them were like that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishSausage Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Yep! Both of them. "dont need other support pieces to achieve objectives?" ever run 6+ wendiegos or 6+ metal gamin? how was it viable and how did that work out for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythicFOX Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 I repeat my offer to throw down against a Belle lure spam list on VASSAL and see how it goes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Godlyness Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 About the same as runnning 6+ belles worthless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracomax Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Again I think the issue has jumped to terrain and malifaux and not cating 8 lure that is a single 1 ap action that can dictate the flow of the game The problem is that the two aren't really separate. IF you are not playing on enough of the right types of terrain, then that 1AP action becomes overpowering. And the reason we are criticizing that terrain is that it was put up as an example of the terrain you use. We can only work with the information you give us. All three of them had fairly monotype, sparse terrain, which will make that 1AP action far more effective than proper terrain density. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 It's like when you say that you can get of 4 lures from 2 Belles, generally I find this is not the case. You normally can get 1-2 lures off as the rest of the AP is spent trying to get into a position where you can get LoS on a model worth luring. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeton Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 "dont need other support pieces to achieve objectives?" ever run 6+ wendiegos or 6+ metal gamin? how was it viable and how did that work out for you? I've never run 6+ of anything, to be honest. One-note lists are easy to out-play once you know what they can do. I've run 3 Metal Gamin and they were fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 It's like when you say that you can get of 4 lures from 2 Belles, generally I find this is not the case. You normally can get 1-2 lures off as the rest of the AP is spent trying to get into a position where you can get LoS on a model worth luring. Not to mention, that sometimes - just sometimes - Lure fails even on Belles. I for one have incredibly bad luck luring Santiago Ortega. Bugger just won't move when I want him to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Yeah you have to love it when the 1st Belle activates, walks pulls the second Belle. The second Belle walks goes for the 1 lure you can get LoS for and it fails.. 10ss of models and they have done sweet FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Godlyness Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 23 people staring at this thread lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.T.A. Hoffman Posted March 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Why do you keep going back to the terrain? You think late game when you're sitting on a squatters marker or a protect territory or a turf war marker, that a bell won't have some kind of LoS to you? We're talking about Bell spam with Ca 8 here. Some one will have LoS, you will get lured, you will not be the lure, you will be pulled off the objective and you will lose. Because, it's not a duel you can beat. I just cannot fathom what it is about a spammable Ca 8 that some poeple don't get. I see a lot of attempts to justify this stat line with terrain or hard counters, or whatever. But, nobody can tell me why a 5 stone model as access to an ability that long ranged, that has that good of a movement effect, that has that high of a cast and, worst of all, can easily be spammed by five or six models. You only need to hire 4 to make it work, and most rezzers have some means of summonign more bells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Yeah you have to love it when the 1st Belle activates, walks pulls the second Belle. The second Belle walks goes for the 1 lure you can get LoS for and it fails.. 10ss of models and they have done sweet FA. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracomax Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Why do you keep going back to the terrain? You think late game when you're sitting on a squatters marker or a protect territory or a turf war marker, that a bell won't have some kind of LoS to you? We're talking about Bell spam with Ca 8 here. Some one will have LoS, you will get lured, you will not be the lure, you will be pulled off the objective and you will lose. Because, it's not a duel you can beat. I just cannot fathom what it is about a spammable Ca 8 that some poeple don't get. I see a lot of attempts to justify this stat line with terrain or hard counters, or whatever. But, nobody can tell me why a 5 stone model as access to an ability that long ranged, that has that good of a movement effect, that has that high of a cast and, worst of all, can easily be spammed by five or six models. You only need to hire 4 to make it work, and most rezzers have some means of summonign more bells. So, what you are saying is that your opponents don't spend any time before late game neutralizing belles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.T.A. Hoffman Posted March 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 So, what you are saying is that your opponents don't spend any time before late game neutralizing belles? So, what you are saying is, to counter Bells, just table your opponent? Cause there is no way late game he won't have one or two just lying around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Or put themselves in a situation where they are near a marker and out of sight or in difficult terrian. Belles can't be everywhere. You know where those Belles are relative to you going into turn 5, It's not like they can magically Teleport to get LoS and a decent direction on the lure. 18" only matters if there are straight 18" sight-lines on the board, and there should only be a few of them at most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.T.A. Hoffman Posted March 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 They bells are working towards the same objectives you are... so let's just make sure that no table has an objective that isn't behind a wall or in terrain? Good luck with that bro Or hope that the bells are not going towards the same turf marker you are, or whatever. Cool I can beat bells by making sure my opponents are all really bad at the game. WOot! I'm playing with newbies only from now on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 If they are luring you they are not moving towards the objective. They can't do both. If they are close enough to you to get to the objective, then after luring you are close enough to stop them walking to the objective with a disengaging strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Godlyness Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Just to clarify you are playing belle spam and crushing. Or you are on the receiving end and can beat it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.T.A. Hoffman Posted March 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 How many bells do you think we are playing with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythicFOX Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 I reiterate my offer to throw down against your Belle spam list on VASSAL. (wondering how many times I have to pose this before someone responds, yes or no). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.T.A. Hoffman Posted March 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 You coming down to Adepticon Ratty? If you are I say we take this to the table. It's the only way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 If by turn 5 it's more than a couple then you have been outplayed the entire game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.T.A. Hoffman Posted March 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 I reiterate my offer to throw down against your Belle spam list on VASSAL. I would but I don't care for vassal. Come to Adepticon if you can, we can play a live game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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