SurreyLee Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Hi all, i've been playing a fair bit with Lilith, with a bit of joy although nowhere near having her down completely. One minion i've yet to take is the Waldgeist. I just can't see what is so special about the model. What am i missing? Any tips/pointers welcome. On a slightly separate point too, i find that the Doppelganger is overpriced for what "it" does. Again, any advices. Thanks all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracomax Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Doppleganger is worth the price if only to let you cheat initiative. Waldgeists are going to be more useful in certain strategies/schemes than others, and against ranged crews. It is really going to depend a lot on the crews you are facing whether you get much use out of them, from what I've seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 I have yet to try the Waldgeists but just got a head's up about them today. On the Doppelganger I must disagree, I played one game with her and I was completely sold on the utility it has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurreyLee Posted March 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Can you explain a little more about the Doppelganger? As Dracomax mentioned, the initative thing is strong but not necessarily worth the points alone. The trigger to pull off the "free" strike is unreliable. I heard about buddying her with Kade can be very beatstick but as he's not making too many lists ( i really like him) then i can't see her value. Waldgeists forests can block line of sight? So against Guild and Gremlins could be useful. Is LOS blocking the only benefit to them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Well Doppelganger can benefit you from taking many tactical actions etc. Not just plain damage tracks. You can Mimic actions like Lure from the Beckoner, or Show Ya The Door from Mr. Graves in a Lynch list (this is exactly what I tried after reading on the forums and it blew my mind). Doppelganger can basically be the unit you need should one of those units fail themselves (Beckoner, Graves, Teddy, Kade) whatever it is you need to happen she can make it happen. You get a second chance at almost anything. If you don't need a second chance at something, you get double of it. I haven't played enough to tell you that much, but the one time I played I found great utility for the model. Also she has the initiative flip thing as well as Manipulative 14, if your enemy wants to attack it, it works as a really good card drain and after they see what the model can do, she will get attention, thus taking inflicted ap away from your other models and draining your opponents hand the same time and all those resources spent on the Doppelganger is away from your other models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daemonkin Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 If you summon a forest and are in base contact your range goes to 4" which is a big zone of control and can give the waldgeist a bit more punch. Armour +2 is also very good. D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Waldgeist are a mainstay of my Lilith lists, and make in into other lists for me too. I take 2 of them as my first picks as soon as I decide on Lilith. Why am I so sold on them? Well... frankly, the bring something to your crew that neverborn struggles with - resilience. Perfect camouflage, armour+2, 7 wounds is just really, really good. Being able to slow targets it strikes, especially when you have a 4" range and are often safe from retaliation, is also very tough. chewing through a waldgeist takes effort - if you can manage it. also, their terrain effects can really benefit the rest of your crew. Many of Lilith's effects trigger off terrain - so being able to place a lot of it can be of direct benefit. Its also a great way of hampering your opponent. Now, lets look at that 4" engagement range in more detail. This covers a huge area of the board - almost a 10" diameter circle. Having 2 models do this means you have a lot of board control at a really cheap price. having an engagement range that can change between 2 values is also really useful: you need to not be engaged so you can interact? just move (which removes your terrain and drops your engagement range) you need to prevent your opponent interacting? just drop some terrain and catch them in your bigger bubble. you want to deliver the message, but that pesky master is just out of your reach? drop terrain and deliver away! you want to prevent a charge? something can't charge if its engaged! now, lets look at swampfiend - now looka t eternal fiend (the bad juju upgrade) and hexed amongst you (swampfiend upgrade) you can have these pieces anywhere you like, and if they get killed someone gets a bad juju to the face. for 6ss!?!?!!! I simply cannot oversell waldgeist enough. Give them a go. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurreyLee Posted March 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Hmm, thanks Joel, i think you've highlighted about 6 things i just hadn't thought about....which is ace. Thanks. Also, you've opened up the swampfiend and bad juju. i've not used either of them so far and it looks like a great "bomb" kind of tactic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daemonkin Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 That relies on Juju being dead does it not? Not being a fan of the old model I have not used Juju yet. I am waiting for the Zoraida plastic set (with another 3 silurids!). D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EntrepeNinja Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 I've been wanting to do a swampfiend style Lilith crew for a while now... Especially since the Avatar beta dropped... All that rough terrain! /drool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorbad Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Bad Juju can start the game buried, just waiting for someone to kill one of his swamp buddies and the exact revenge on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 That relies on Juju being dead does it not? Not being a fan of the old model I have not used Juju yet. I am waiting for the Zoraida plastic set (with another 3 silurids!). D. With Lilith, you could place a waldgeist upfield, say 18" in front of Lilith,(with hexed amongst you carried by juju) and on her first activation she 1) walks forward 2) uses tangle shadows to place juju in base contact with the waldgeist and the waldgeist in base contact with Lilith 3) walk forward to get to a central position, her favourite spot, and bring up some trees. Juju now goes to town, and when he dies, he'll be able to pop back from eternal - even if you have to kill your own swampfiend to do it. I did that in the masters to net me bodyguard points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Hmm, thanks Joel, i think you've highlighted about 6 things i just hadn't thought about....which is ace. Thanks. Also, you've opened up the swampfiend and bad juju. i've not used either of them so far and it looks like a great "bomb" kind of tactic. You're welcome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 Thanks Joel, very convincing points on the Waldgeist as well as Juju. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 Juju himself probably deserves another thread, but he rocks. The fact that eternal triggers if a swampfiend is killed, sacrificed or buried - bringing juju back - is huge. This can put people off pine box, upset Tara, etc. Its one of those 3 upgrades but only 2 slots situations unless taken with Lilith though - I'd want hexed amongst you, eternal fiend and fears given form on him. Of course, now that wave 2 is out and we have 2 more swampfiend henchmen (spawn mother and McTavish) I don't have to worry as much. McTavish and Waldgeist....now that's just nasty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 Is Juju compatible in any Neverborn list or is it just with Zoraida? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uktena Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 Juju himself probably deserves another thread, but he rocks. The fact that eternal triggers if a swampfiend is killed, sacrificed or buried - bringing juju back - is huge. This can put people off pine box, upset Tara, etc. Its one of those 3 upgrades but only 2 slots situations unless taken with Lilith though - I'd want hexed amongst you, eternal fiend and fears given form on him. Of course, now that wave 2 is out and we have 2 more swampfiend henchmen (spawn mother and McTavish) I don't have to worry as much. McTavish and Waldgeist....now that's just nasty! Routine Bad Juju victim checking in, he is awful to deal with. I hate seeing him. He works amazingly well with both Zoraida (who always has him) and Pandora (when she opts to ignore Teddy for whatever reason. Boredom I guess.) AND Lilith (He offers her resiliency and the aforementioned Swampfiend support). Bad Juju indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 yep, he works well with every neverborn master - but lynch and dreamer probably have better options for their synergy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurreyLee Posted March 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Just when I thought I had enough options around my lilith crew you've all rather inconvenienced me with more choices to ponder and models to buy. I both applaud and curse you all in equal measure....8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uktena Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Just when I thought I had enough options around my lilith crew you've all rather inconvenienced me with more choices to ponder and models to buy. I both applaud and curse you all in equal measure....8) *cough*NEKIMA*cough*.....man, this cold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigerstyle Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 Just to add to the Doppelganger discussion: She can Interact while engaged which is another excellent ability. +1 for Bad JuJu, he's an auto-take for Bodyguard with a Swamp Fiend list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therril_83 Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 Its one of those 3 upgrades but only 2 slots situations unless taken with Lilith though - I'd want hexed amongst you, eternal fiend and fears given form on him. Of course, now that wave 2 is out and we have 2 more swampfiend henchmen (spawn mother and McTavish) I don't have to worry as much. Do you _really_ need Hexed amongst you if you play Lilith though? I mean, take a silurid (because why wouldn't you anyway?) and place that in a good position up to 17" up the board, and use that to tangle shadows with. Sure, you can't do it on your very first activation, but it does solve the upgrade-situation you mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 you can indeed - but it depends how nasty and quick you need/want to be. silurids are indeed awesome, but in a Lilith list, with bad juju and a pair of waldgiest, points start getting tight - and for a silurid you can just about get 2 terror tots - they are also very quick and give you an extra activation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikvar Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Hey Joel! I was looking at exactly what you were thinking in this list: Lilith +Beckon Malifaux [1] +Living Blade [2] +Wicked Mistress [1] Cherub [3] Bad Juju [8] +Eternal Fiend [2] +Fears Given Form [1] McTavish [11] +Fears Given Form [1] +Hexed Among You [1] Waldgeist [6] Waldgeist [6] At this point I still have 7SS to use, and I am a bit unsure why I would use those points on a Silurid over another Waldergeist, or dropping the "Fear given form" from Mctavish and get two Terror Tots. The big reason to not get two Terror Tots is Bad Juju, as I want to get as many possibilities for him to get back into the game as possible... But I simply dont understand Silurids, and definitely not for 7ss- what would make Silurids worth the 7SS compared to fx just getting another Waldergeist for 6SS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Speed!! A silurid is one of the most mobile models in the game - able to walk twice and leap (with the most reliable leap in the game). Although hexed amongst you allows you to place models upfield, a silurid allows for in-game mobility. Getting about the board without being pinned down is a silurid's thing. Do not underestimate leap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.