When will this game be available to non-kickstarters

[Dreamchipper]

I know the game is still going through the printers but I see Kickstarter pledgers got theirs in PDF form already, so that begs the question, if I missed out on the Kickstater and really want to get in on the game, when can my grubby hands on  a copy?

 

 

 

[Mako]

I believe it was specified that it wouldn't be on sale until the KS backers had got their copies, or at least had them sent out. That means a little while yet, but there's no solid date set as far as I know.

[tadaka]

Other option is to buy some one out. I dont think Ill use my copy

[Forar]

The current tentative time frame for the backers to receive their books/figures is "Late Q1".  Given that this time frame ends in 19 days, it seems likely we'll see another delay announced shortly.

 

The War Store often has new Wyrd products listed before we see an official notification, and while they're not 100% accurate, they do have products listed up until April without a mention of TtB (which could simply be a case of their distributor not having the info yet, or a May time frame and they haven't updated the page, or something else).

 

The pdfs going out to the backers is a good sign, but a big question mark remains on this campaign for the physical delivery.

[Nathan Caroland]

When the books come in from print and the miniatures arrive off the boat. On someone else's schedule now. 

[Forar]

The miniatures are still on a boat?  That I did not expect.  Though I guess putting off the production run until the books were actually done makes more sense than them eating up warehouse space for the last 6-14 months.

 

Do we have a rough timeline for these last two pieces?  (ie: is the boat 90% through its journey or did it just leave port, are the last books due to print in a few hours, or did the run just fire up, etc)

 

Obviously delays can happen, but given that these are things that can take weeks or even months (in the case of shipping across an ocean, rough weather, delays at customs, etc, etc, etc) it'd be awesome to have an idea where in that process we might be sitting.

[skarsol]

It's a secret.

[dgraz]

Wyrd has tried to give answers to those questions in the past.......then when delays happen they get burned and people blame them like it's their fault.....so I seriously doubt you're going to get more than Nathan's "On someone else's schedule now."

 

I know we're all excited, but there really isn't anything else Wyrd can do at the moment....it's out of their hands. When it's in the warehouse, then they can say.

[Forar]

There's something profoundly funny in feeling confident enough to project a delivery date 8 months out, but not mere days or weeks out.

 

Reasonable people will accept delays that are beyond control.  Catering to the lowest common denominator punishes everyone for the failings of a few.

 

Wyrd manages to project up to 3 months out what their available models will be for Malifaux, according to their own site (sometimes) and a variety of distributors.  Surely they've got this "estimate time from boat to stores" thing down now.

 

But I digress.  You're right, they'll tell us when they tell us.  Pardon a little impatience as we, in theory, are down to the last 2 weeks of the current delivery target without an update.

[Dracomax]

There's something profoundly funny in feeling confident enough to project a delivery date 8 months out, but not mere days or weeks out.

 

Reasonable people will accept delays that are beyond control.  Catering to the lowest common denominator punishes everyone for the failings of a few.

 

Wyrd manages to project up to 3 months out what their available models will be for Malifaux, according to their own site (sometimes) and a variety of distributors.  Surely they've got this "estimate time from boat to stores" thing down now.

 

But I digress.  You're right, they'll tell us when they tell us.  Pardon a little impatience as we, in theory, are down to the last 2 weeks of the current delivery target without an update.

The problem is that we have shown in the past that we are not reasonable people.

[Forar]

Hey!

 

Leave me out of this.

 

:-/

[Ratty]

Surely they've got this "estimate time from boat to stores" thing down now.

 

 

Well it's totally out of you hands if it's not in your own Warehouse. As soon as it goes on a boat it really is a crap shoot. There have been container ships that have sunk or even taken by Pirates, I've seen things get stuck in customs for months.

 

FFG is a huge company, but Imperial Aces was around 4 months overdue and that was 2 Fighters painted in a different colour, they didn't even have to make molds.

[Forar]

Well, we were 'on track for delivery' back in July.

But apparently the figures weren't.  This wasn't something that crept up on anyone.  Assuming the launch of the project wasn't the first point that any work was being done, we're approaching a year and a half here.

 

And as I said, reasonable people would understand "pirates have taken the ship, we pray for the safe return of the crew" or "US customs has found a little chalk on one deck, expect it to clear sometime in 2016".

 

"It's on a boat, *shrug*" isn't exactly the same level of confidence and enthusiasm I'm familiar with from Wyrd.  They manage (with admittedly varying degrees of success) to get piles of figures to Gencon each year, to unleash a new wave to retail each month, surely 3 figures (2 MPM and Hannah) plus some possible reprints (or are they just leftovers) isn't exactly taxing in comparison?

 

But hey, I'm an outsider.  Yes this is conjecture and speculation but it's also tinged with polite requests for information, because I admit I don't know.  I've striven to be patient, but the last update that really touched on delivery was January 4th.

 

 

 

Keep checking your email for these updates as we may need feedback on one or two more things, and we'll be letting you know the final progress of Through the Breach.  

 

It's been 3.5 months since I was told to keep watching for final progress info or to provide feedback.

 

On February 27th (over 3 weeks ago) we were told;

 

Hi Backers - we want to thank you for your support and continued interest in Through the Breach. We're in the manufacturing window right now, which is why we haven't been able to show you much. We'll be launching a comprehensive update tomorrow though, so in the meantime, please make sure your address is up to date and enjoy the Designer Diaries.

 

We have yet to see anything remotely resembling a "comprehensive update".

 

So here we are with 11 days left in Q1.

 

As I said, apologies if patience it beginning to wear a little thin.  I've tried to keep people informed in the comments section with occasional visits for over 15 months.  I suppose I've finally found the point where a few cracks begin to develop in my outlook as well.  Feeling like there was a bit of light at the end of the tunnel helped.  New beta waves, the occasional nod here and there, but can you see how the current change of tone is a little jarring?

[Mako]

When Nathan has tried to explain things in the past, people argue and attempt to 'correct' him on Wyrd's business. They also take vague estimates as binding promises and start shouting the day they're due.

 

Customs won't tell you where your shipment is once they get it, until it clears or there's a serious issue. It's a black hole of unknown time, and yet people still seem to think Wyrd know how far along it is. I had that when I shipped my things to Canada - I got one email from my shipper saying the boat was due in on X date (if it hadn't arrived I would have been in the dark), then nothing until I got a notice saying 'come and collect your stuff, here's a pile of paperwork you'll need'. I'll get that again when I go home. Bigger shipments get more checking, so the time varies more.

 

I'm not surprised his response is 'We can't do anything about it, it will arrive when it gets through the transport chain'. That's probably all he can find out about where it is.

 

Ok, the multipart figures may not have been ready (though Hannah certainly was, given she was at GenCon. The Wicked Dolls were visible there too). But then, the beta wasn't over either so that wouldn't have changed much.

 

The production process is a lot more complex than people think, so yes getting a model made and cast can be a long duration. It's getting briefs, getting artwork, sculpting time, checking the renders, any resculpts, getting them sorted for the caster, booking casting slots (that you have to hope you hit), checking test casts (possibly going back to the resculpt stage if need be), booking more casting slots, then getting the run done and onto the long dark road of transport. That is a whole lot of variables that are both within and out of Wyrd's control.

 

'I don't know' really isn't a fob off answer, it means 'I don't have an answer to give'. 

[Ratty]

 

"It's on a boat, *shrug*" isn't exactly the same level of confidence and enthusiasm I'm familiar with from Wyrd.  They manage (with admittedly varying degrees of success) to get piles of figures to Gencon each year, to unleash a new wave to retail each month,

 

I agree something comes out each month but it's not always what was planned to come out. Look at Fuhatsu and the Lone Rider which I believe were originally down as January releases, that are now early April releases. And the Gremlin's which Nathan has stated were meant to have some representatio in the release schedule before now. Things happen.

 

But there is conformational bias, you notice the things that directly effect you. If your not a Gremlin player, you don't notice the Gremlin issues, but your own Faction having their Masters bumped 2 weeks becomes an issue.

 

I can't imagine any reason why as a company Wyrd would not want you to have the product as soon as it was ready.

[Dracomax]

That being said, If they wanted to ship the books out to those of us not getting models, I wouldn't complain...

[Forar]

I can't imagine any reason why as a company Wyrd would not want you to have the product as soon as it was ready.

 

I never assumed that would remotely be the case.

 

That doesn't make a lack of information any easier to embrace.

 

It's been 3 weeks since Nathan told us 'it's at the printers and on a boat', and thus Q1 has come and gone.

 

Hell, I thought "sure, 6 months extra seems like plenty of time, I have faith they'll make it".  Cliche as it is, I'm not angry, I'm disappointed.

 

And sure, as someone who hasn't bought a Wyrd product in a year (the Gaming Room tier was enough of a hit to my disposable income), let alone watched releases, I'm willing to recognize that things don't always make it out exactly when they're anticipated.  And yet they still manage to actually change those delivery targets all the same (you said yourself, what was due in X month is now listed in Y).  Which is more than can be said for this project right now.

 

I mean, unless the Lone Marshal actually had a delivery target of "shrug, not on us" for a while there.

[Forar]

That being said, If they wanted to ship the books out to those of us not getting models, I wouldn't complain...

 

That's not a bad idea, assuming the books arrive first (and given how quickly their printer turned around the M2E books, it wouldn't surprise me at all).

 

Roughly 20% of the backers just got the books, and that'd clear out nearly 300 packages before the warehouse had to bother with the remaining 1,200 or so.  I mean, I wouldn't be overjoyed if the minis ended up holding back my package an extra week or month, but I can see the benefits in at least starting to work on delivery as soon as possible.

 

Though it'd be somewhat ironic if the Living Room backers (another 20% or so) got held up just because the Multi-Pose minis got attached to their tier in a stretch goal.

[Spence]

Meh….

 

The truth of the matter is that Wyrd cannot know what is happening.  They will not be able to give any kind of word until they get notification from Customs on this side.  Even notifications from the company are chancy.

 

But let’s take a look at the big and most important aspect of this.  The size of the run.  Major or even minor printing houses do not allow their presses and binders sit idle.  Idling machinery tends to break, so they will tend to keep them running as much as they can without significant downtime. 

 

So what does that mean?  Well, RPG printing is a teeny teeny itsie bitsy small print run in the world of printing.  This particular KS had three books, the two main books (Player and Fatemaster) and the special edition combined book.  A quick bit of math tells us that just on the face (not knowing how many additional copied may have been ordered) they need 1498 Player Guides, 1498 Fatemaster Guides and 751 Special Editions.   Let’s double that, no triple that and round up for extras and initial store stock.  That makes it two runs of 4500 copies and one run of 2300.

 

And those are really tiny runs. 

 

A print company knows exactly how long it takes to print the pages for a book of X pages and at X size.

They know how long it takes to print the cover material, the endpapers and the text block.

They know how long it takes to trim and assemble them. 

They also do not want to print them up if they will not be quickly assembled and crated.

 

They use tiny jobs like these to fill between real print runs from book companies and organizations that are ordering prints of 100,000 to a 1,000,000+ copies.

 

So where do orders like this one fall?

 

In between two major runs, IF the run will fit, they will print the book, assemble it and warehouse it.  Because remember, they ordered 3 books and just because one of them got printed doesn’t mean the others were.   Once all 3 books have been printed they will notify Wyrd and ship them. 

 

But also remember that:

1) Wyrd’s 3 micro print order is only one of dozens or maybe hundreds they have pending.

2) They will not give notice until the complete order is done.

3) When they say “it is done and shipping” they do not mean it is actually on the way.  They mean it has been sent to the shipping warehouse where it will sit until it is combined with enough other ordered heading to the States that they warrant it can be shipped so they can save costs.

 

Once it is shipped, it needs to find its way out via their customs and then in via ours. 

And remember they are books,  i.e. non-critical and non-perishable.    Or in other words low priority bulk. 

 

Once it gets past our customs it gets back in the hands of the shipping company.

 

The relevant point is throughout this is that a minor print of a game is not really going to be a high priority for anyone in the entire process except us. 

 

It could take months for the prints to be done. 

Another month to move form shipping to customs.

Then the 40-60 days to transit by containership. 

Then 10-60 days in our customs.

 

And all the while Wyrd has very little or zero control or influence.  After all,  does the printing company really suffer any kind of real loss if a foreign RPG micro-business no longer does business with them?

 

And that is books, I imagine the none book items will have their own issues, though I can’t speak to what those will be.

[Forar]

Err, did I mention that they had a 5,000'ish book run last year in a month seemingly without trouble?

Whomever they work with clearly seems to have attended to their needs in the past just fine, and seems to be a lot more local than needing 2 months in a container.

 

Edit: and y'know what would be better than having to speculate this out?

 

An update that tells us what is going on.

 

But apparently that's asking too much.

 

Edit: from another forum:

 

"In the M2E news and Rumors thread, lalochezia (Justin) mentioned that he had a copy of the M2E rules on his desk since August 1st (he posted on August 7th and said he'd had it since the previous Thursday), and by a tweet from Justin's twitter, the M2E book seems to have been shipped off to the printers right around July 18th at the latest, which means that they had a turn around time of 2 to about 2.5 weeks (assuming the last bit of playtesting ended on July 14th or so)."

 

Ergo, it definitely does not seem to take 2-3+ months to get a print run done, at least when things are going well.

 

And if they're not going well... wow, that'd totally be worthy of an update.

[Nyarlanthotep]

But then after Gencon they had issues restocking the Rulebook, so they had to release the Small Rule Manual as a stop gap measure.

[Forar]

 

I can't imagine any reason why as a company Wyrd would not want you to have the product as soon as it was ready.

 

The more weeks go by, I can.

 

Three words: Unveiled at Gencon.

 

It's been nearly 4 weeks since Nathan noted that they were waiting on other people's schedules, a week passed the Q1 'target' and 5 weeks since the last update.

Surely it's crazy to think that it'll take another 4 months to wrap things up, and yet here we are without even an educated guess (because some people get crazy with estimates, well apparently some people get a bit wonky without them; checkmate!)

 

Is it understandable to express a little frustration now, or should I wait for May?  Y'know, just checking in.

[Judgeman]

And we have had 0 photographs of what anything will look like.  No official word of what the sprues of the multi pose minis ended up looking like, what the fate masters screen looks like, what the kickstarter fate deck looks like, no pictures at all.  And yet, everything is in production, you would figure someone somewhere would be able to post a god damn picture of some sort of finalized product.

 

I am beyond unhappy with the progress of this Kickstarter, as many are on the kickstarter website.  Course, you would know this if you ever bothered to check those messages every once in a while.

[WalkingInBlack]

I suspect that all the things are made in China like the miniature and such for M2E, which seems to make things delayed.

[DeleteAccount]

I have to say, I like wyrd and really like Malifaux all that, but I'm incredibly happy to not have participated in the kickstarter and is another notch for me on why I don't want to participate in any of them. Sounds like the whole process has been going at break neck speed internally and plagued by problems every single step.

 

Seems to me that the grand majority of projects bite more than they can chew, specially if they go over the initial planned capital.