Whispers from Beyond

[gozer]

Does anyone else find this ability incredibly overpowered for its requirements?

 

Even Leveticus'  Unnatural Wasting has to get a bonus suit and hit moderate or severe damage to succeed. Additionally, his trigger does not include the 'Glimpse the Inevitable' effect.

 

Right now Whispers from beyond feels like an 'I win' button against any crew that relies on healing or fewer high hp models.

 

Anyone have some ideas to balance this ability a little better? Here are some of mine:

 

 

Make it a (2) Action or restrict its use to once per turn.

 

Make the TN require an additional suit.

 

Make 'Glimpse the Inevitable' only last until the end of the turn.

 

Make it a base Ca of 5.

[Fetid Strumpet]

No it doesn't feel OP. I've summoned hanged against Lilith who is THE weakest master to use this against, and it has still taken multiple turns to kill her with it because it is a decreasing scale of dmg, and it is DMG which means a ss user can prevent some if the dmg by spending a stone.

The no healing condition is rough, but only in a few masters that need it and they generally have a good chance to resist and can either avoid or kill the hanged. Plus as we have all seen conditions are rampant and powerful in this edition. If you are going up against a resser or outcast and are worried about the hanged bring condition removal.

[PeregrineFalcon]

What Fetid said. Plus there actually quite easy to kill. 

[rancor709]

Whisper from beyond is a weakening spell not a finishing spell. The hanged are a fear model there also 9 stones. They have a cast stat of 6 definitely strong. but there are many ways around this ability. Condition removal, Model removal, DMG spells, weapons that ignore incoporeal. Its not overpowered, there are lots of ways to get around it, any condition removal will stop the no healing bit, and taking out the hanged takes our a 9ss minion. Its good, but most things in this game are.

[zFiend]

It is powerful, it is annoying and it hurts to be on the receiving end as much as shower in Oz, but there are ways around it as said. I don't think it's that owerpowered though, it's on a 9ss model that doesn't do much other than that.

[Tiny]

If you think the condition is that big a problem there is a 6ss merc (7ss with the extra cost) with condition removal. Johan.

[E.T.A. Hoffman]

I think the no healing is a bit much.But remember it is a condition and can be removed in many ways.

 

I agree that Levi vs. Hanged is silly in respects to power. But, I think Levi got over worked in PT and now he's... idk meh I guess.

[MasterDisaster]

First time I came across The Hanged I rage quit (which is extremely unlike me) because I was so utterly destroyed by them. Viks were basically shut down turn 1 and dead by the start of turn two. They were facing Seamus, Copycat Killer + 2 Hanged. Given that the Viks are paper thin anyway and their sole source of survivability is the shared healing through the crew. By not only halfing their health then shutting down their healing my opponent had guaranteed himself easily 6-7 points right off the bat. He used the Hanged to very effectively cripple well over half my crew in the first two turns then Lured stuff in with Belles to be riddled with bullets by Seamus and the Copycat Killer. I would have been fine with this (well, maybe not fine but it would have sat easier with me) if the Strategy was Reckoning but we were playing Turf War. He basically brutalized my crew over the first 2 turns then planned of completing his objectives. He completely Ignored Turf War and went on a murdering spree for the sake of it. 

 

This is the ONLY reason I now take Johan in all my lists against ressers. Personally I think the Hanged are a douche bag choice however if you can get at them they go down fairly easily. If you suspect their presence you really want to include some form of condition removal and healing if possible. I can handle losing half health as that's only effective against higher health models but the heal prevention which lasts until the end of the game, that is really strong and unless you can counter it you may as well pack up and walk away. 

 

In my experience that ability alone pushes them over the top and I don't think they should have left their beta with it in it's current state but that's just my view. Many think it's OK as it is. If you don't know about them or aren't expecting them they can really ruin your game. The second time I faced this brand of douche baggery I was prepared. I brought Perdita along with Trick Shooting and shot them to death turn 1 and 2, I was also packing Francicso for stat buffs and Stalkers to remove the anti-heal condition. After both Hanged went down it was easy to mop up the rest of Seamus' crew. In the end they appear to be very lame when you first encounter them but they are fragile and fairly expensive, if you can deal with them effectively you take a serious dent out of your opponents crew. 

[Kadeton]

Two Hanged in a Seamus list is a particularly douchebag choice, for sure. However, I've always found their main value to be in removing the immunity to Horror duels rather than Whispers (which is a nice bonus, no question, but not their main power).

 

I think part of the problem is that not enough people have realised that condition removal is one of the most important aspects of crew-building in this edition, especially against Ressers.

[MasterDisaster]

 

I think part of the problem is that not enough people have realised that condition removal is one of the most important aspects of crew-building in this edition, especially against Ressers.

 

So true! When I first started conditions were the bane of my life. Then my local Henchmen mentioned Johan and he's been a solid addition to a lot of my lists, excluding Guild as I have Stalkers for that. When it comes to Ten Thunders and Ressers I plan on getting Yan Lo's box purely for the Ashigaru and Chiaki as they are great models and Chiaki is a really good source for support and condition removal in both factions. 

 

In the interest of helping the OP it could be helpful to list the models that can remove conditions. From memory I can think of a few

 

Guild - Witchling Stalkers & Lady Justice, Various members of the Ortega family (Nino, Santiago, Pistoleros etc)

Outcasts - Johan & Void Wretches (Only on Buried Models)

10T - Chiaki & Monks of the Low River

Ressers - Chiaki

Mercs - Johan

 

Any others? I'm not particularly familiar with Arcanists, Neverborn or Gremlins. 

[Bigkid]

There's plenty of models I'd prefer not to face but I'd never declare my opponent a douche for taking them.

Countering your opponents crew is a massive part of the game and I totally agree that condition removal is vital in the current version.

[Isefaux]

I learned, that the Hanged can be a serious thread for my own crew too - if my opponent has acess to "obey" or similar effects. Just make your opponent regret his decision to put 2 hanged on the board by whispering Seamus with his own hanged... Not a tactic for all factions, but if you can, just give it a try.

[AL the zombie]

After playing 4 games with a hanged yesterday I'd have to say that I don't think they are overpowered in the least. I would have dropped them from my list for 3 of the games but It was a fixed list.

condition removal has become an important part of the game and helped my opponenets out a lot. Out of the 4 games I'd say the hanged did moderetly well I got 5 or 6 whispers off. most of the glimpses either where not a factor or got removed. they got killed in two of the games and hid behind terrain with 1 wound remaining for protect territory in a third.

at 9ss I already pass over them a lot in crew construction, If they where Ca 5 on whisper I'd hardly ever play them.

Also I apologies to everyone that burned and shot my crew off the table yesterday. I didn't no that the hanged was a douchey model when I picked it.

[Ratty]

I think the important thing is that they a 9ss.. That is a lot to be wrapped in one model. I almost always get more utility out of 2 Guilty.

[zFiend]

I don't think that the Hanged's are that douchy and something to be apologizing about. They cost 9ss, they are very expensive models and they are in no way hard to take off the table. They can be extremely powerful but then you need to play them right as they usually have a huge target on their heads and when they die (if they are wanted dead, they will be dead) you are 9ss lighter on your crew. 

[MasterDisaster]

I don't think that the Hanged's are that douchy and something to be apologizing about. They cost 9ss, they are very expensive models and they are in no way hard to take off the table. They can be extremely powerful but then you need to play them right as they usually have a huge target on their heads and when they die (if they are wanted dead, they will be dead) you are 9ss lighter on your crew. 

 

I don't find them that douchey anymore but anybody who decides to use these guys against beginner players need a good slap. A fresh Malifaux player coming up against these guys wont enjoy the experience in the slightest, I know I didn't. Hence my bad experiences with them in the past. Now I've moved over to Ressers I'm actually considering getting them however that'll probably be purely for summoning purposes with Nico. I don't think I'd pay 18ss for 2, that's pretty crazy! 

[Daysleeper]

sidequestion: Do you always "need" two to make them work? Cause most people here seem to encounter them in pairs. Is one, alone, not good enough? Because 9SS is a very steep cost imho, so i would probably only get one.

[Ratty]

I generally run only one, but if you do you probably need other stuff that works well with them.

[zFiend]

I always go with just one if I decide to hire them.

[Spifferson]

Regardless of how anyone feels about them, the time for rewriting there rules is long gone.

 

Personally they are one of MANY models that will be complained about based off initial impressions. However labeling them or the players who use them [regardless of the # used or the skill level of your opponent] as "douche bags" is weak and quite insulting to players.