Witchling Production line

[Dracomax]

So, I realized that the Witchling Handler is not rare yesterday. It got me to thinking. How could I maximize the number of Witchling Stalkers produced in a game? Obviously, building a list  around a mechanic is at best risky and usually pretty stupid, since it doesn't help with actually completing schemes, and can actively hurt your ability to win the game.

 

But as a thought exercise, I thought it might be fun to throw around some list ideas and see if there is a way to make the optimum list such that you have the greatest number of opportunities to create a witchling.

 

The barriers, as I see them, are this: Condition, and cost. Card manipulation will probably be important.

 

Sonnia Summons one if enemies die within 10 and have burning. She requires 1 SS or 2 Cards to do so.

The Handlers have a :tomes trigger that summons a damaged one on killing an enemy.

 

I do not know of any other ways to summon them.

 

So, let's start off with a "burning mania" list. It doesn't help the handler, but it does mean that enemy models are more likely to die with burning.

 

Sonnia

+Reincarnation1ss

 Malifaux Child3ss

Freikorps Specialist9ss

Witchling Handler8ss

+Disrupt Magic2ss

Witchling Handler8ss

(3X)Witchling Stalker5ss

Cache 7

 

This gives a maximum number of SS to use for creating Witchlings, and every model has a way of putting burning down and doing damage.

The disrupt magic on the first Handler will help to keep condition removal from stopping you, as most of those are Ca flips.

It has no card manipulation at all, however, and is a bit light on pure killing power.

 

I'm sure we can do better. Thoughts?

[Joel]

Sam with witch hunt allows you to drop burning +4 out on enemy models - and is one of the more reliable ways of doing it since the witchling stalkers are only Sh4.

[MasterDisaster]

Sam with witch hunt allows you to drop burning +4 out on enemy models - and is one of the more reliable ways of doing it since the witchling stalkers are only Sh4.

 

I've used this upgrade with Sam every time I've taken him and as soon as I try to drop this spell on the enemy they are VERY keen to stop it dead in it's tracks. I've rarely been able to get the spell off which is frustrating to say the least. Still if you can get it off then it's going to work great!

 

Sonnia's Avatar gives access to Gamin who are quite proficient at getting the Burning condition out there. Can't say anything about Iggy as I have yet to use him but he seems like he could also be a worthy candidate to get the Burning spread about fairly quickly, perhaps even more so than the Freikorps Specialist, the difference in SS cost could pay for the Avatar upgrade. 

[Dracomax]

I've used Sam with Witch Hunt several times. Usually, I'm dropping it on people who don't have great ability to stop it and didn't quite manage to get out of LOS. My friends no longer like LOS checks with me.

 

I had actually considered swapping out the Malifaux Child and the initial witchlings for 3 Death Martials(since the Handlers put up the aura of burning) or 1 DM and Fransisco or the executioner. All of them would be better at consistently hitting, and thus adding burning, but I wasn't sure about chance of burning per cost, so I figured I'd start with the more default set.

 

I suspect that if I knew of a way to either add cards to my hand, or cycle them efficiently, it would help, too. I did consider the Watcher for this and cover removal, but again, I thought it better to start simple.

 

I did not include the avatar simply because the rules are still quite early. If we find a good general list for this, it might be a good idea to swap out the Avatar and some models and see if it becomes OP, but right now, it doesn't really exist, for the purposes of non-beta play.

[Joel]

what about sidir carrying the promises upgrade?  making all other upgrade-carrying models +ve flips on attacks could help if you dropped something cheap like plant evidence on the handlers maybe?

[Joel]

adding cards to hand? possibly the brutal effigy?

[Adran]

Buying Desperate Mercs/Ronin will allow you to gain ss later on it the game, so keep summoning.

 

Deopnds what you are finding is your limit...

[Sonova]

Other than the obvious troll factor, summoning witchlings isnt really the game winner it was in 1.5 despite how much easier its become.

 

But If you are spamming handlers I'd actually use non witchling models like Latigo Pistoliers since they shoot better than witchlings + have defensive buffs. If you need more cards you cant go past the Brutal effigy. 

 

Disrupt magic is really only a sometimes thing so if you drop that and the specialist you could have

 

Guild Crew - 50 - Scrap

 

Sonnia -- 7 Pool

 +Reincarnation [1]

 

Brutal Effigy [4]

Pistolero De Latigo [5]

Pistolero De Latigo [5]

Pistolero De Latigo [5]

Pistolero De Latigo [5]

Pistolero De Latigo [5]

Witchling Handler [8]

Witchling Handler [8]

 

 

9 Activations should let you control the flow of the game pretty well as well as set up some nice shots for your pistoleros + sonnia.

[Sholto]

Sue has Burning and card draw.

Clockwork Traps plus Witchling Handler makes for zone of burny death. Drag enemies in to flambe.

I like leaving Sam to activate last. Opponents who save their high cards to avoid his +4 Burning don't use them against Sonnia's blasts, and vice versa.

[Meliondor]

Why do people like +4 burning on Sam so much ? It is just 4 damage and easy to dodge, while also very situational in use.

I normally never buy this upgrade.

 

I mean 1 attack,for 4 damage. But only on short range, agianst models in terrain and with low attack value. Really worth the extra point ?

[LunarSol]

Why do people like +4 burning on Sam so much ? It is just 4 damage and easy to dodge, while also very situational in use.

I normally never buy this upgrade.

 

I mean 1 attack,for 4 damage. But only on short range, agianst models in terrain and with low attack value. Really worth the extra point ?

 

I think its well worth a point.  Unfortunately, it costs two.

[Dracomax]

i Guess YMMV. I've found the +4 burning is very difficult for my opponents to dodge. 4 burning that doesn't need to be burning already to ignore cover is pretty big. and it opens up Samuel's second shot, and Lady J for more fun. If you can't get your opponent within an inch of terrain, you may be playing on too little terrain, or with terrain that is too large and clumped.

[dgraz]

i Guess YMMV. I've found the +4 burning is very difficult for my opponents to dodge. 4 burning that doesn't need to be burning already to ignore cover is pretty big. and it opens up Samuel's second shot, and Lady J for more fun. If you can't get your opponent within an inch of terrain, you may be playing on too little terrain, or with terrain that is too large and clumped.

Agreed.

[Saracenar]

I always take Witch Hunt and I find it comes in use almost every game. You can play Samael two ways, and I find myself generally going with the second. You can have him activate early and spam the Burning to drain cards from your opponent's hand or set up for Sonnia if they let it through. Or you can leave him until the later stages of the turn and, as others have said, take advantage of the fact that your opponent has probably used their hand for other things or has saved cards for Sam, in which case everything before him has been hindered.

 

I find that, ignoring cover is really worth the Ca 5. And what's wrong with 4 damage for 1 AP? That's pretty decent. Hit someone twice and 8 damage is enough to kill just about anything.

You really do need to play with a fair bit of terrain. If you can't target anyone with Witch Hunt, your opponent is either deliberately staying away from terrain, which is a plus for you, or you're not playing with enough. Seriously. I rarely am in a situation where my intended target stays out of/away from terrain to avoid Sam, because they are too afraid of getting blasted by Sonnia or charged by Witchlings.

Sometimes, Sam will have to move to get into range. If he has to move, I find Burn them Out is more effective against targets in cover than simply shooting (unless of course that target is already burning). If I'm going to shoot someone, I'll generally rapid fire, because Sam goes after big targets with his gun. He's just as much of an intimidator as he is a killer. Even if he doesn't kill a lot of stuff, it probably means your opponent is avoiding him, in which case he is great for area denial. Set him up in some good cover with range on the centreline of the board, and depending on the strategy you're golden.

...

As to the Witchling Production line, I find in my general crew I am able to summon between 2-4 Witchlings per game. The core of the crew is:

 

Sonnia

-Reincarnation

-Either Imprint or Counterspell

6-7 Pool

Samael

-Witch Hunt

Purifying Flame

2-4 Witchlings

 

In a 41SS game, which is what I usually play. There's space for additional models depending on how many Witchlings you start with, but I have begun the game with 2 a couple of times and still easily summoned 2-3 over the course of the game. I could however see lists like the ones proposed so far increase the summoning to 4-8, if you really concentrated on it. Of course, it depends on how many and which models your opponent brings.

For me, summoning is about focus-firing. You pick a target, give it burning, kill it, summon and move on. I try to leave Sonnia and Samael for the end of the turn unless Sonnia is in a position to spread burning or really wreck face from the get-go. Then the rest of the crew can do the killing and she just needs to be in the right position to drop cards or stones.

I'm keen to try out the Handler and will definitely give her a go when I come back from Lucius. Also interested in the Specialist but I need to get the model first.

[Sonova]

The only problem I have with witch hunt is that charging Sam tends to produce better results if all you want to do is punish people for taking cover.

[Saracenar]

Depends on what you're charging and what else is nearby, but yeah, he's no slouch in melee.

[dgraz]

In my games, Sam is usually the one at the furthest back of my lines.......he hasn't been charged once. And.......he is brutal in melee....especially if the target is burning.....brutal doesn't even cover it.

[Sonova]

He is in your back lines because the dude has the resilience of mildly damp tissue paper. Which is why I don't really like to bring him along.

[Joel]

How about adding Sue into the mix? He can dish out some burning and packs a nasty punch. And he's cool.

[dgraz]

He is in your back lines because the dude has the resilience of mildly damp tissue paper. Which is why I don't really like to bring him along.

Perhaps that's why he is in your back lines. He's there for me because he has great range and he can usually start being useful before he gets too far ahead.

[Sonova]

Perhaps that's why he is in your back lines. He's there for me because he has great range and he can usually start being useful before he gets too far ahead.

 

Nah mang, if I bring him he be fightin', flankan and punchan. 9ss is too much to pay for 1x 4/5/6 a turn. I am just finding Ryle or Sid to be better bang for my buck because they stick around a lot longer despite doing less damage. 

[dgraz]

Nah mang, if I bring him he be fightin', flankan and punchan. 9ss is too much to pay for 1x 4/5/6 a turn. I am just finding Ryle or Sid to be better bang for my buck because they stick around a lot longer despite doing less damage. 

We're obviously not playing with the same rules.

 

My Sam has a 12" range.....ignores LoS to targets with burning.....and has RAPID FIRE. Unless I'm reading his rules wrong, that's THREE 4/5/6 shots a turn at Sh 6 ignoring LoS AND cover.

 

Deploy centrally, move up first turn and he covers half the table.

 

Perhaps you're not getting much 'bang for your buck' because you aren't using him right.

[Sonova]

We're obviously not playing with the same rules.

 

My Sam has a 12" range.....ignores LoS to targets with burning.....and has RAPID FIRE. Unless I'm reading his rules wrong, that's THREE 4/5/6 shots a turn at Sh 6 ignoring LoS AND cover.

 

Deploy centrally, move up first turn and he covers half the table.

 

Perhaps you're not getting much 'bang for your buck' because you aren't using him right.

 

3 shots only if you use rapid fire. If your opponent allows you to get rapid fire off in this age of pre measure then he deserves to lose. Also deploying him centrally pretty much means that the good ol' boy is going to die a glorious death. Which is fine most of the time (IF the strat and schemes support it) and when I'm lazy or feeling trollish thats what I do. This does mean that you are gift wrapping him for your opponent on a silver platter however. Cover is naught but an inconvenience and there are many many snipers in the game right now. Even the GREMLINS have good snipers these days.

 

Otherwise I use him to flank because the reality of the matter is that Sam must be dealt with or he will rain death and destruction on your opponents or just steal the victory through points. This allows him to take alot of heat off Sonnia. Your opponent also has to send a significant amount of force after Sam because 1 on 1 he could potentially brutalize anything up to master grade so this allows you to dictate the flow of the game. This is even more so once they realize that he can shoot them through a solid wall if their models are on fire. He is really good at flanking too because he is unimpeded. This is what he is good at. This is where you will find the most value. 

 

The problem I am having is that he is baseline expensive.His tricks are nice but i've found that once your opponent has been rofflestomped by him once, they wont ever let you do it again or severely restrict you. Ryle pretty much does everything he does but is generally faster and is more durable if less bursty with his damage. Same with Sid. Both models are abit harder for your opponent to play around. 

[dgraz]

He is really good at flanking too because he is unimpeded. This is what he is good at. This is where you will find the most value.

Again.......that's where YOU find the most value. And again, if that's your play-style, maybe that's why you don't think he's that great.

 

3 shots only if you use rapid fire. If your opponent allows you to get rapid fire off in this age of pre measure then he deserves to lose. Also deploying him centrally pretty much means that the good ol' boy is going to die a glorious death. Which is fine most of the time (IF the strat and schemes support it) and when I'm lazy or feeling trollish thats what I do. This does mean that you are gift wrapping him for your opponent on a silver platter however. Cover is naught but an inconvenience and there are many many snipers in the game right now. Even the GREMLINS have good snipers these days.

What? You make absolutely no sense to me. 3 shots only if you use Rapid Fire? Well......yeah that's what it's for. You say you use him for "punchan" because he can't get enough shots off to be worth it...........with what? His Cg 5 and his 1" reach?.......compared to his 12" gun? Now, I'm not the strongest in math, but I'm pretty sure if you're in range to charge with him.....then you're well within his Rapid Fire range. Maybe it's just me.

 

And again with the over-exaggerations........how are you 'gift wrapping him on a silver platter'? Maybe you're not using enough terrain....if Sam is standing behind some trees, or a wall.....and is out of LoS......he can't be targeted....can't be shot, can't be charged.....yet somehow...through the magic of Malifaux he can still shoot burning targets.....again, maybe that's just me.....maybe we have different stat cards......maybe you're not using enough terrain....maybe you're not screening Sam and Sonnia very well with Stalkers.....maybe your crew isn't putting out enough burning.......I don't know.

 

Oh, and if the enemy moves into a position where they can see him so they can shoot or charge him......guess what they're in range of? That's right, Rapid Fire........but only if you use it.

[Sonova]

Again.......that's where YOU find the most value. And again, if that's your play-style, maybe that's why you don't think he's that great.

 

What? You make absolutely no sense to me. 3 shots only if you use Rapid Fire? Well......yeah that's what it's for. You say you use him for "punchan" because he can't get enough shots off to be worth it...........with what? His Cg 5 and his 1" reach?.......compared to his 12" gun? Now, I'm not the strongest in math, but I'm pretty sure if you're in range to charge with him.....then you're well within his Rapid Fire range. Maybe it's just me.

 

And again with the over-exaggerations........how are you 'gift wrapping him on a silver platter'? Maybe you're not using enough terrain....if Sam is standing behind some trees, or a wall.....and is out of LoS......he can't be targeted....can't be shot, can't be charged.....yet somehow...through the magic of Malifaux he can still shoot burning targets.....again, maybe that's just me.....maybe we have different stat cards......maybe you're not using enough terrain....maybe you're not screening Sam and Sonnia very well with Stalkers.....maybe your crew isn't putting out enough burning.......I don't know.

 

Oh, and if the enemy moves into a position where they can see him so they can shoot or charge him......guess what they're in range of? That's right, Rapid Fire........but only if you use it.

 

Putting him in the middle is usually putting him in harms way. If theres a solid object there then fine, but typically you only dictate the placement of 50ish% of the terrain and a savvy opponent will deny you things like a central bunker or sniper point with terrain placement if they get the first piece. And without a solid obstruction he is vulnerable to sniper fire and potshots. If theres a solid play to be made by that then its fine. But usually people tend to pay more attention to the terrain placement in the middle than whats on the flanks making it more likely for you to have good avenues to advance forward through them.  

 

Also a good opponent will never let you use rapid fire through either the use of pre measure or just using chaff models to occupy Sam. This is especially a problem when you are up against summoners like Dreamer, Kirai or Nico. Everyone knows he has rapid fire and solid guns so they will try to duck and cover. What everyone tends to forget is that his melee attack can do 5+ damage minimum to burning targets. Send him up the flank with a witchling or fire gamin and chuckle as he literally disintegrates your opponents melee beatstick.