The role of the Large Arachnids

[Nickienogger]

On the subject of Steampunk Arachnids then - what do people think are their uses on the field? There seems to be quite alot of 'meh' reactions about them. from the thread about  Langston vs LSA

see - http://wyrd-games.net/community/topic/97744-ramos-wave-2-howard-langston-vs-large-steampunk-arachnid/

 

I am liking them because when I compare them to a 4ss small arachnid (taking in context of the single ones only)

at 6ss I get...

 

7 wounds instead of 4 wounds

 

1 in 4 chance to get armour +3

 

makes scrap if it kills an enemy model - aka more spiders to run more objectives

 

In context of hiring multiple small arachnids at the start of the game as designated objective runners, for an extra 2 soulstones each these guys are likely to last much longer and have a chance of actually taking out any enemy intercepting minion models? They are walk 4 unimpeded which is 20% slower than the small ones.

 

I find that my small arachnids sometimes get caught out and easily stomped by more superior enemy minions whilst running their objectives - I know its probably due to my tactical error, but the price of 4ss for an objective runner can be pricey at 4ss with just 4 wounds, even factoring in armour +1 and df 6.

 

Despite these deductions they are just theoryfaux, anyone have any experience with them yet? or any other angles of theoryfaux to add about them? or synergies?

 

 

[Inquisitor Wall]

I've been underwhelmed by them simply because I find other units that just seem better. If looking for objective runners the Large arachnid just seems too slow. The small ones are faster and can hide easier in terrain. I must admit though I do not have any experience actually using the large arachnid.

[mythicFOX]

I've not spent much time with the Large Arachnids so working mostly from theory here.

 

I don't see them in an objective grabbing role. If you want to spend 6ss on a single objective grabber the Soulstone Miner is a strictly better choice IMO. Otherwise you've got Coryphee, Steam Arachnids and Molemen who are all better suited to the job. 

 

To me it's key ability is Temporary Limb;

 

 (0) Temporary Limb: Discard target Scheme Marker or Scrap Marker within 4". If this happens, this model gains [+] to all flips for the remainder of this Activation.

 

This lets you remove enemy scheme markers and can get you the vital [+] on damage, which from severe damage six is useful.  So I'd be looking use use them for combat support close to Ramos, where the extra scrap is useful, and you can take out enemy scheme markers for Breakthrough and plant explosives etc.

 

Just my two.

[Dracomax]

Honestly, I think they fit in about the same place as last edition. Better than one Steam Arachnid, worse than two. With Ramos, they are going to be hard to justify, simply because that is 6 SS that could go to Johan, Joss, or a Coryphee, each of whom do certain things as well or better.

[Fenton Crack]

Right now, aside from having a another cool spider model, I don't see its benefit to my builds either.

I like the extra scrap, but nothing else is compelling to me.

The small spiders Df 6 and long walk to get them behind cover means I'm less likely cheating cards when attacked, and even when I need to, I often opt to let it get wiped out, as I'll get some scrap and don't have the worries if losing a high value model.

I like his defensive trigger and the Heated Metal trigger well enough, but I do not necessarily see me wanting to use my valuable tomes on them. At least with Grinding Halt is a use to cheat in even a low tome if the damage track will be negligible (min 1) after the Armor three.

I am not sure the zero action would be something that has me take the model, but if you are going to use it to clean a marker off the table, why not get the plus flips, as there is certainly no other competing zero, and as Mythic Fox indicated, plus to the attack and damage is nothing to sneeze at with severe 6.

I guess at the end of the day, I don't think its bad, but I just will often find the 6 stones going somewhere else more often than not. I will end up painting one up eventually, so I'm sure it will at least see at a few times, if for nothing law to use the new toy. (Although a rebase of the huge plastic brass arachnid may work equally well in friendly games)

[Dracomax]

I can see it as a cheaper replacement for Joss' scrap creation if I don't need a tank. It isn't bad; I just find that with Ramos, I am almost always running out of SS to hire anyway. To compete with those things already out there, it needs to give more for its cost.

[Sybarite]

i could certainly see myself taking one with Mei Feng

[Bloaty]

i could certainly see myself taking one with Mei Feng

 

This is what I was gonna say exactly. I loved them with her last edition and they still do nice with her this edition (at least so far I've had great experience with them). They're not as fast as little spiders but they have a much higher damage output and really capitalize on scrap markers which Emberling makes. Also, Railwalking to a large base is pretty nice rather than a small since you place anywhere in base with it. They also drop scraps for Mei to walk to and unlike Joss, they don't eat up the SS that Mei really needs. Sadly, this is the only crew I really take them in, they don't offer much to anyone else other than Ramos who likes other models more. 

[Gorbad]

I wonder if there is any milage in using one or two with Colette as cheapish hitters. It should be a lot easier to get to use Temporary Limb with her as you can probably generate scheme markers where you need them.

[El Indio]

I dunno; I still like them a lot. I would be tempted to take two of them in place of a single Langston in certain situations, but I generally prefer quantity over quality, I appreciate their extra scrap generation, their scheme marker removal, and the fact that they can hide behind terrain a little better than Langston can. Their damage output is quite respectable, too. They have a lot of competition at that cost range, sure, but I suffered too much assembling my pair to give up on them without generous play time.

[madaxeman]

apologies for practising thread necromacy (in an Arcanist thread!) however can someone point me to where the stats and cards are for this model in 2.0? I cant seem to spot them in the 2.0 rules, and they aren't in the 2.0 Wave 2 arsenal deck either...? 

[Myyrä]

They sure are in my wave 2 deck. I suggest you check yours again, and if they are really missing contact Wyrd.

(It is Large Arachnids we are talking about right?)

[Godgolden]

Mythicfox beat me too it, its all about the (0), hey guess what, your sheme marker? yeah its not only gone, its giving me +flips and his sever damage is the same as Howard Langstons, something people don't expect.

 

And if you're a hoffman player like me, its the best (0) or 1 AP to O.S.A afaik.

 

Yeah they are awesome, ignore the comparisons to small arachnids they are nothing alike, they are a small beatstick with an awesome utility, if it does kill something you've got a garanteed scrap to eat next turn.

 

My vision of them is coloured through a Hoffmans and Ramos's eye though and they ar enot without disadvantage, they are big and slow but they do ignore severe terrain to counter this alittlebit but if you deploy him incorrectly, expect alot of walking.

 

Edit: I should read all posts first shouldn't I, yeah Large Arachnid should be in the Wave 2 Arsenal, make sure it's Wave 2 however.

 

Also found in Crossroads.

[madaxeman]

They sure are in my wave 2 deck. I suggest you check yours again, and if they are really missing contact Wyrd.

(It is Large Arachnids we are talking about right?)

aaah - thanks - found it! 

 

Got word blindness - mine is a 'steampunk' large arachnid..

[decker_cky]

I used a pair of them recently (along with Cassandra and a Performer) to ensure scheme dominance in a Kaeris game with grab and drop. When you can carpet the field with scheme markers, and you can burn through your opponents scheme markers at range for bonuses, it's a very tough proposition. In a list like Kaeris or Colette, where you won't have an issue getting down plenty of scheme markers, they're great even if your opponent doesn't take a scheme that requires markers. 

 

Mei benefits from the base size (better railwalking) and scrap (more railwalking points). 

 

Ramos benefits from the extra scrap (lets him set up his engine for cheap).

 

For anyone who isn't covering the field in scheme markers, I find that a large arachnid is a nice thing to add before adding a second rail worker, since it means they don't compete for resources on the positive flip ability.

 

One thing that really stands out is the damage potential with replacement limb - it's a 6SS model that can actually take advantage of severe damage 6. Certainly not always, but I had it come up last game, and my opponent wasn't happy. 

 

It's certainly not a throw in every crew model, but it does a lot of things well enough that it can be a star in the right crews.

[Kapten Vendetta]

 

And if you're a hoffman player like me, its the best (0) or 1 AP to O.S.A afaik.

 

Forgive my ignorance, but why would the 'Hoff benefit from getting a (more then anyone else) from Temporary Limb (which I take it you mean by O.S.A the (0).)?

 

Doesn't Hoffman (with the proper looped in Metal Gamin) succeed on very low cards to begin with? Being a Support Master and all, and not needing moderate or high cards, it seems that the    would be more beneficial elsewhere. Or am I missing something? 

 

I can see the benefit in increasing your chances of getting the right trigger-suits, but at the price of 2ss and 1AP, in addition to the cost of the Arachnid itself, I'm not so sure it is soulstones well spent.

 

That being said; once I get over my fear of assembling - and slightly converting - Ramos Brass Arachnid, I'll certainly give it a go. (Oh the joints, the small, small joints...)

[Myyrä]

I suppose it could be useful for Hoffman once he gets his avatar upgrade. Spending 1 AP to get   for all flips sounds pretty good when you are a huge butt-kicking robot. The downside is that Hoffman wouldn't be able to get field mechanic then...

[Godgolden]

Forgive my ignorance, but why would the 'Hoff benefit from getting a (more then anyone else) from Temporary Limb (which I take it you mean by O.S.A the (0).)?

 

Doesn't Hoffman (with the proper looped in Metal Gamin) succeed on very low cards to begin with? Being a Support Master and all, and not needing moderate or high cards, it seems that the    would be more beneficial elsewhere. Or am I missing something? 

 

I can see the benefit in increasing your chances of getting the right trigger-suits, but at the price of 2ss and 1AP, in addition to the cost of the Arachnid itself, I'm not so sure it is soulstones well spent.

 

That being said; once I get over my fear of assembling - and slightly converting - Ramos Brass Arachnid, I'll certainly give it a go. (Oh the joints, the small, small joints...)

 

Well straight up, you can eat another enemy scheme marker, thats 2x enemy scheme markers destroyed providing you tangable and significant bonuses.

 

Never under-estimate +flips, it affects everything, and also remember you are playing a game against an opponent that is actively trying to stop your A- game and Hoffman has an armour-ignoring and very damaging attack, he doesnt need to machine-puppet to kill something.

 

I mentioned it because its the best OSA target out there, its a super-niche ability that I always take for the other upgrades effects.

 

Also, I don't take Metal Gamin that often, they are slow and tend to only provide a +2 to CA for Hoffman, its nice but not by any means essential, would help a Hunter alot though but they tend to be out solo.