SpiralngCadavr Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Lol. Yeah, it does prevent corpses/scrap from dropping, but I think that's most of the extra other than what you'd expect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausplosions Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Well I'm glad thats cleared up, to be fair I was beginning to think she might be a bit overpowered with 1 useful ability Karina is the new Malifaux Child. Except less useful because she is too expensive to use as Killjoy delivery, and this crew doesn't need the delivery anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hateful Darkblack Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Maybe Avatar Tara should buff Karina somehow? Wait, sorry, wrong forum for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiralngCadavr Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Well, actually, she does- I'm usually peaking at 2-3 Buried enemies instead of 1. Wait... Flames of the Void targets friendlies, too :/ So, the avatar actually pretty strongly conflicts since you usually want it away the whole turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausplosions Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Well, actually, she does- I'm usually peaking at 2-3 Buried enemies instead of 1. Wait... Flames of the Void targets friendlies, too :/ So, the avatar actually pretty strongly conflicts since you usually want it away the whole turn. Wasnt Testing supposed to start OP and work it's way down? ;-P 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyphre Posted March 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 So yesterday I held a mini-tournament at my flat: 4 players Tara (as Outcast) Perdita Ramos Kaeris 40 ss 2 boards Sewers Docks 1st game - Turf War Tara vs Kaeris - Tara winner Ramos vs Perdita - Perdita winner 2nd game - Squatter's Rights Tara vs Perdita - Tara winner Ramos vs Kaeris - Kaeris winner Karina conclusions We played with fixed crews and I decided to a thematic crew; Tara's boxed set and a Convict Gunslinger. I was hoping that Karina would somehow prove me wrong. In both games every model did their bit in order to gain VPs, with the notable exception of Karina. She is by far the most useless model I have fielded in any crew! In game one she survived but did nothing except making a few shots with her Peacebringer - but she can't hit anything. In game two she was killed in the first activation, when Nino flipped the Red Joker on a double negative flip. With the activations I got with her, I just looked at her card, thinking to myself, so what the hell am I gonna do with you. In the end you end up just taking two walk actions or shooting with her Peacebringer. She does nothing and her synergy with the crew is almost non-existant. I would have been better off getting two upgrade for my Convict Gunslinger and the Nothing Beast. I have a Malifaux Child in the mail and it will be nice to have a totem, which is usefull. General notes from using Tara This was the fourth game in a row where I played and won with Karina. I did not win because I flipped well or was lucky, but because Tara just clicks with me. Her incredible versatility is a winner in every game. She makes her crew so good and flexible, constantly putting her heavy hitters straigth into combat and then removing them. Placing scheme markers with the Void Wretches while the heavy hitters kill stuff. I have also started to drop the Dead of Winter upgrade - I feel that the Death Marshals are to expensive and slow. Dropping that upgrade allows me to take Eternal Journey. Being able to drop back into your own deployment zone is just awesome - and is just so good for certain schemes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Mouse Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 Karina is the new Malifaux Child. Except less useful because she is too expensive to use as Killjoy delivery, and this crew doesn't need the delivery anyway. Have to agree. Nothing Beast and Karina both could have done with some open beta testing - the issues people have with those models would have been quickly identified. As it is I'm building my Tara lists without them, as are a lot of other people by the looks of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuttleboy Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 Looks to me like the go to beater for Tara right now is Killjoy. NB can do it, but feels a bit fragile until your hand is empty and with the need to hold cards to defend other members of the crew, this isn't always possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiralngCadavr Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 Played my first game with killjoy after exclusively running the NB as my primary hitter for a while... I believe, through attacks and black blood, he killed 29 points of enemies and the master. I still have places for the Nothing beast, but pretty sure that in a competitive setting, killjoy, bishop, and taelor would all be picked before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausplosions Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 I hate to say it. But I agree. I am now firmly in the camp that Tara and crew are massively sub-par when taken in-theme, and wildly powerful when using out of theme models. Tara relies far too heavily on her upgradss especially as a Rezzer. Karina is wasted space in any game less than 50ss,and even then I'd consider not taking her. The NB is fantastic, but the same result can be had by taking Kill joy, but with less hoops to jump through. If it was at all possible, I'd say scratch all the cards and Open test again. Cause as she is, she is the worst designed master in M2E. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiralngCadavr Posted March 30, 2014 Report Share Posted March 30, 2014 Yeah, it's getting kind of disappointing. As much as I love her thematic models, the only ones I'd competitively use with her would be Void Wretches, and that's because they're fun and reasonably good. Well, I might use Death Marshals, but still feel the upgrade tax is unnecessarily harsh. I really wish she were designed better, because I really enjoy how she runs with the right upgrades, but don't like the upgrade dependence; that the NB is, outside of some synergy, worse than other heavy weights (and only ever has a place in Tara lists); and Karina is trash. +1 for another open test of tara... Has a petition for a redesign ever worked here, except for OP pieces? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausplosions Posted March 30, 2014 Report Share Posted March 30, 2014 I would say that we will not see a re working of Tara until M3E. Which is a shame, because she now resides on my shelf, never to be played again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiralngCadavr Posted March 30, 2014 Report Share Posted March 30, 2014 Well, I like Tara herself, but do find that, more and more, I'm moving away from her thematic models, which sucks because I absolutely love her visual theme. Now it's mostly just Tara and some random other guys rather than a cohesive-feeling crew... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyphre Posted March 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 What I don't like about Tara's upgrades is that two of them are autoincludes - if you don't take them you don't get Tara's best abilities. I have started to drop the Death Marshals and therefore the Dead of Winter upgrade, they are too expensive for what they do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeleteAccount Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 I'd love Tara to get another dedicated round and sort of feel like a dumb donkey for not making more noise about this when transmortis went for a second loop, but yeah, chances are she won't get looked on directly till M3 and will have to be patched by upgrades that make her stuff work better. Just a shame that the honor of being a nightmare model was her undoing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausplosions Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 I'd love Tara to get another dedicated round and sort of feel like a dumb donkey for not making more noise about this when transmortis went for a second loop, but yeah, chances are she won't get looked on directly till M3 and will have to be patched by upgrades that make her stuff work better. Just a shame that the honor of being a nightmare model was her undoing. Yeah. Second Nightmare set i've bought, now both turned out to be duds. Ho hum. Would love Tara and Co. to get a new look through, but as you said, I's about as likely as her Avatar turning out any good in the current Wave.(I.e. None). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeleteAccount Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Yeah. Second Nightmare set i've bought, now both turned out to be duds. Ho hum. Would love Tara and Co. to get a new look through, but as you said, I's about as likely as her Avatar turning out any good in the current Wave.(I.e. None). Two questions, what was the other dud nightmare set out of curiosity? And earlier this thread you were more pro Tara and her theme crew, what broke the camel's back this last month if you don't mind sharing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiralngCadavr Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Can't speak for Ausplosions, but I was in the same boat (went from pro- to anti-theme) and for me it was: -starting to test out raw heavy hitters (the NB started to look much worse compared to others) -changing up play styles (realized the death marshals were too expensive unless playing heavily towards a niche) -trying to figure out Karina (yeah, she's pretty terrible) -testing the avatar (which made it how clear she was reliant on upgrades) My ideal reconfiguration of Tara and her crew would look like: -Make Faces in the Void and The Darlings native instead of upgrades -Make Whispers From the Darkness a low enough TN to be useable -Shuffle around all the void upgrades except for Knowledge of Eternity around until they make worthwhile choices (and not either things you're forced to take or never take), maybe adding stuff to fill gaps -give the NB one of the following: better durability, better weak damage, lower cost -make Karina useful. I'd probably start with some more defense and a summon you can actually use. ...unfortunately, unless there's a 2.5 with some new cards down the line, I think others are probably right that there's no chance of her seeing revisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hateful Darkblack Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Huh! I have been enjoying playing her every time I play her. I do find that I'm playing with Killjoy more often than Nothing Beast, but Nothing Beast is definitely solid if you're playing with her bury mechanics. I need to try Karina a few more times to get a sense of her. I'm usually playing with Student of Conflict instead of Karina lately. Maybe I'm missing something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vargas79 Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Yeah I've loved playing her so far - admittedly I'm only 3-4 games in. I have nothing good to say about Karina though. I can't believe she received a great deal of testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiralngCadavr Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Don't get me wrong- I really like playing Tara. I think she's got a very fun style and have been playing her more than any other master in 2nd edition. But, Tara's overly upgrade-dependent, the Nothing Beast is overpriced or underpowered (considering that there are better options for the master he's designed to work with, and he can't run with any others), and Karina is arguably the worst model in the game: she's way too flimsy for an expensive model (given her effect on the game) that's supposed to run near the front, and her summon is nearly unusable. What this amounts to is Tara effectively has one upgrade slot, her totem is terrible, and the nothing beast is an okay but ultimately sub-par option. I'm willing to play within those constraints, again because I like Tara, but her crew could really, really use another round of testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausplosions Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Two questions, what was the other dud nightmare set out of curiosity? And earlier this thread you were more pro Tara and her theme crew, what broke the camel's back this last month if you don't mind sharing? Two answers. First: The Nightmare Hanged. I spent US$80 on two nightmare models for crews I own, and instead ended up with one proxy model for a crew I don't have, and two pieces of some of the most expensive terrain I've ever bought. Secondly: Almost word for word this: Can't speak for Ausplosions, but I was in the same boat (went from pro- to anti-theme) and for me it was: -starting to test out raw heavy hitters (the NB started to look much worse compared to others) -changing up play styles (realized the death marshals were too expensive unless playing heavily towards a niche) -trying to figure out Karina (yeah, she's pretty terrible) -testing the avatar (which made it how clear she was reliant on upgrades) My ideal reconfiguration of Tara and her crew would look like: -Make Faces in the Void and The Darlings native instead of upgrades -Make Whispers From the Darkness a low enough TN to be useable -Shuffle around all the void upgrades except for Knowledge of Eternity around until they make worthwhile choices (and not either things you're forced to take or never take), maybe adding stuff to fill gaps -give the NB one of the following: better durability, better weak damage, lower cost -make Karina useful. I'd probably start with some more defense and a summon you can actually use. ...unfortunately, unless there's a 2.5 with some new cards down the line, I think others are probably right that there's no chance of her seeing revisions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiralngCadavr Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 heh, well, I guess I could speak for you, in that case. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeleteAccount Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Thanks for both your answers, I haven't played Tara as much, but as a pure resser, I have a very hard time with her upgrades, specially with access to something like spare parts. The nothing beast has served me well, but I've also seen how absurdly easy it is to kill if left unprotected and I have access to the Valedictorian, the Rogue NEcromancy and the Dead Rider, as well as bete noir, so it's not like I'm lacking my own missiles, the wretches do their job with incorporeal being very useful, but they are pretty much objective grabbers and ressers have very nice slots in the 4-5 stone slot for that job and Karina is a dud as far as I'm concerned (grave spirit or costly malifaux child it seems). At least the nothing beast should be very easy to put up to snuff with a dedicated upgrade, he's just a bit below, but can perfectly be worked up again, the wretches don't really need much either (a tragedy that the void generic upgrade is such a dud too in that front...). Karina is the hard one since she needs a LOT and Tara will have to live with upgrade bloat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 I need to try Karina a few more times to get a sense of her. I'm usually playing with Student of Conflict instead of Karina lately. Maybe I'm missing something. Your not, the Student is 1) 1ss cheaper, 2)tougher, 3) does more damage and 4) is WAY more useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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