The Dreamer, How do you play him?

[Ozz]

Ok, so in 1st Edition, the fluff for this guy is what got me into this game, or a big part of it. And i loved how his crew worked, but obviously it was a little OP even without the sling shot which i never learnt until it got banned But i was always good with him, knew how to play the crew ect. For the M2E Version, in all my games so far, i have never had much luck with him, i usually attempted to go for a lot of the WP stuff, as that is what his crew seems to be about when looking at him and his nightmare models. But the way i used it, i only won 1 game, but win or lose, the games were never fun.

 

So my question is what lists do you use, and what are these lists good for? And how do they play? Kill opponent, ignore opponent, score objectives ect

 

I had a tendency to always use a Teddy and Coppelius, which is still a habbit from the previous edition, but never found Coppelius to be worth it, for me. I am just hoping i am using him badly as i love this guy

[dgraz]

Find and pay hundreds of dollars for the Nightmare edition LCB. Lovingly build and paint that model. Place that model in a sock. Smack opponent in head with it. 

 

A winner every time.

 

I don't play NB, so that's all I can tell you

[The Godlyness]

Don't summon lcb next to rusty when she has a fist full of cards. Makes a sad day to be had. Summoning dreamer us good cause of what you can do. Cards permitting. But lcb version is mice for things like turf war or reckoning.

[Ozz]

Find and pay hundreds of dollars for the Nightmare edition LCB. Lovingly build and paint that model. Place that model in a sock. Smack opponent in head with it. 

 

A winner every time.

 

I don't play NB, so that's all I can tell you

 

I have him sat in a padded box, does that count? (the pic of that model in book two is what was the final thing that sold me on this game when iw as told there was a model of it:P)

[SevenSins]

Well from what i've managed to theorize so far, there is the primary question of going for Chompy or not? So seemingly his two major ploys would be either get chompy as fast as possible or stick to summoning and healing aura ploys. I do think, even with summoning, starting with max daydreams on the table is a sound plan, they add a lot of potential for a very low cost.

[Ausplosions]

Find and pay hundreds of dollars for the Nightmare edition LCB. Lovingly build and paint that model. Place that model in a sock. Smack opponent in head with it.

A winner every time.

I don't play NB, so that's all I can tell you

Hahahahaha! Gold.

[Tuttleboy]

Here's how I play Dreamer. 1st and foremost take a look at schemes and strategy and then decide if I want to kill stuff or put out markers and move to win the game. Killing stuff means I take Restless Dreams otherwise I take Dreams of Pain and start with hiring 3 Daydreams. Daydreams are the bomb for any crew that needs to move up to place scheme markers up the board. They're also a huge deal to help get off your summoning of minions and enforcers for Dreams of Pain version. I generally only hire 1 twin with DoP, then heal the summoned one with Alps and Dreamers heal aura and then hit either twin with the crows trigger from Empty Night. Whichever version I take Widow Weaver almost every time. With her web markers you can almost guarantee that there will be some failed horror duels, especially with the aid of Daydreams -1 Wp. Summoning in some Insidious Madness for objective runners is sweet and have used Beckoners in the crew with good success, too.

I think the key to winning with Dreamer is to not build his crew until you know what the strategy and scheme pool is. His crew and upgrades give you the flexibility to win most any game because they can do almost any of the strategies and schemes in the game. I'm a huge fan of Dreamer and think that he will take most players a bit to figure out, but once they do they'll win so much that other players will be crying for a Dreamer cuddle.

[Ozz]

I'm a huge fan of Dreamer and think that he will take most players a bit to figure out, but once they do they'll win so much that other players will be crying for a Dreamer cuddle.

 

You think he is that good again as he is?

[Tuttleboy]

I think he's top tier. Nothing will ever be as ridiculously good a sling shot Dreamer was...I hope. But I did nothing but play Dreamer during W2 beta and love his finished crew. I was worried that you could get 10 AP from Dreamer and LCB station turn 2 when the beta ended, but Justin killed that, thank goodness.

[zFiend]

I think Dreamer is really powerful indeed. At somepoints like today I just felt plain bad for my opponent when I managed to kill Hamelin with a Teddy, then Chompy Disembowling a top shape Killjoy and then Red Joker a Rat King to death with Ten Inch Claws as well within turn 2 and 3 when we called it quits. 

 

I think Disembowel with ml 7 and all you need is a crow is pretty darn bad. If you go Chompy path on Dreamer you can pull that off 3 times a turn. At the late game where there's not that many cards and stones left, just insta killing everyone with that trigger might become a bit NPE. Don't know yet, just my thoughts on the matter. It just sometimes feels a bit bad to start using Disembowel. 

[Fetid Strumpet]

I must be missing it, how exactly are you getting disembowel with only needing a crow? His teeth have a mask on them and the trigger requires a Ram and a Crow, so you must have one or the other of the cards and then stone for the other, unless I'm missing something, as I went through the upgrades and didn't see anything that gave him a ram automatically...

[zFiend]

I must be missing it, how exactly are you getting disembowel with only needing a crow? His teeth have a mask on them and the trigger requires a Ram and a Crow, so you must have one or the other of the cards and then stone for the other, unless I'm missing something, as I went through the upgrades and didn't see anything that gave him a ram automatically...

 

You're not missing anything I'm talking out of my ass again and you are correct.

[StaticVortex]

I was drawn into the game by the model lord chompy bits because, his name is Lord Chompy Bits!  I loved Dreamer's fluff, play style and models.  I was in.  M2e started to come out, I got busy, and shelved the game until now. 

 

First: The Dreamer is completely different...and yet, the same in how he feels.  Perhaps closer to what he is may be  a better description?  I understand the changes on some level and it will take some time to adjust to M2e.  The short version is: It is still the same game.

 

I played a 40ss game and my first turn was an exercise in what not to do from deployment on.  As I re-learned my crew, I discovered that Dreamer has become more versatile than I previously understood him to be.  I played cautious at first with little movement, and poor positioning and activation choices.  Was able to get to enough counters for a Teddy, but not in time to get him out.  Stiched is still a solid choice, and should probably bring two if I'm going to try for a Teddy with Widow Weaver.  Alp and Insidious Madness ended up creating a tar pit and that's about it.  I'm not yet sure how I feel about Coppelius....he's been a favorite, and I suspect I just don't know how to play him now.

 

In hindsight, I think I spent far too much time engaged, or engaging opposing models when I should have been spreading out to accomplish objectives and selective targeting of specific models.

 

All in all it was a lot of fun, and I'm excited to play again.

 

Crew:

The Dreamer

Daydreams 2x

Alp

Insidious Madness

Stiched Together

Widow Weaver

 

Upgrades:

Dreams of Pain

Otherworldly

Handbag

 

Game:

Reconnitor

Line in the sand

Frame for murder

 

 

Thoughts:

Dreamer: Fun, creative, and flexible

Chompy: Good ole Chompy, still does his thing, and does it well.

Daydreams: A must.  They don't do much, but what they do is important.

Stiched Together: Solid.  Like that Gamble ignores twists.

Widow Weaver: Unsure, I likely played her wrong.

Alp: Good annoying  piece.

Insidious Madness: Unsure, was not effective.

Twins: Solid.  Beware the tag team.

 

 

Where do I need to change my thinking with this crew?  I know I need to change deployment...I used to start with Dreamer and two daydreams on the board, now I actually have to set stuff out.  Whew, long for my first post.

[Tuttleboy]

I really like playing WW in my crews, but I use her for the web markers only. I don't take her upgrade anymore because it's felt like a waste to many times. I usually give her On Dreaming Wings instead. I think the next time I pay Dreamer I will bring 4 StitchedAnd keep a pair near Dreamer for cloud cover and damage mitigation and a pair near near WW for flying around a bit faster than usual. Maybe with the +1 Wk from WW I can actually use them to run objectives.

[SilverBullet]

I believe the +1 walk only affects the model with the upgrade. The 6 inch aura just gives flight. So you would have a walk 4 stitched with flight?

If I am running stitched, I pair them with a daydream for a free push. Widow weaver I use as a beat stick. In my last 2 games she had paralysed and poisoned sidir, lone swordsman and huggy, killed huggy, an illuminated and 2 wastrels.

[zFiend]

I believe the +1 walk only affects the model with the upgrade. The 6 inch aura just gives flight. So you would have a walk 4 stitched with flight?

 

I believe he means the base card +1wk to Constructs which Stitched are.

 

To a second thing, is Widow Weaver that good? I tried her once, but I just tried to summon out a Teddy and that was her whole function that game Gotta try her again without the upgrade and see what she can do.

[SilverBullet]

With careful placement of daydreams and Web markers she is brilliant. I don't even consider her summoning upgrade. Just On Dreaming Wings for walk 5 and flight.

[Soundwave]

Is On Dreaming Wings worth it generally though, at 2 stones? Makes WW a 10 stone model which is sort of spendy..

[SilverBullet]

Yes I think so. It is a great upgrade. The utility that flight brings you in a 6 inch aura cannot be overstated, particularly for keeping your models in cover then jumping out as, lets face it, most nightmares are squishy. Also Wk 5 vs Wk 4 is a massive improvement, meaning she can keep up with constructs in the crew to give them +1wk and also meaning she can get into the action (if using her as a beatstick model).

 

Most importantly, however, it frees up an upgrade slot on the Dreamer and means the aura is always in play rather than disappearing when Chompy comes out.

 

Plus, who doesn't want a flying chompy?

[Soundwave]

Flying Chompy... Some sort of flying Tyrant... Flyrant... Oh gods, we have created a cross-platform monster!

[StaticVortex]

Can you do that?  Can you give Chompy the 'On Dreaming Wings' upgrade?  Would the upgrade remain through the sacrifice mechanic of Dreamer coming back?

[RatsInTheWalls]

Can you do that?  Can you give Chompy the 'On Dreaming Wings' upgrade?  Would the upgrade remain through the sacrifice mechanic of Dreamer coming back?

 

Chompy is a nightmare within 6" of the Widow Weaver in this scenario. 

[Arkion]

I wrote a short analysis of Dreamer for an upcoming podcast. I don't play Dreamer personally, but I plan to eventually collect his crew and this is my first impression of him:

 

Dreamer’s strength is really going to be the support he gives to his crew. You’ll probably need to hire enforcers like Teddy or Coppelius in order to actually kill something, and an optimal crew begs for a lot of Nightmares. Mysterious Effigy grants a condition allowing Dreamer to push 3" away after being attacked, and for 4 soulstones is probably worth considering in games greater than 30 soulstones.

 

Dreamer is one-half of the Dreamer-Lord Chompy Bits duo. His heals are nice, and his summoning is pretty spectacular. He’s got a 5 stone upgrade called Dreams of Pain that gives him Manifest Nightmares: A summoning ability that lets him summon any Minion or Enforcer nightmare. It’s not terribly easy to pull off – you need a four or higher of Masks, and the summoned creature is reduced to 1 wound when it arrives. That said, if you time things right, your summoned Nightmare can regain some of its health as soon as it activates.

 

Dreams of Pain allows you to summon Lelu (17), Lilitu(17), Coppelius (18), Insidious Madness (15), and Stitched Together (16). Teddy is a nightmare, but you can’t summon him because you’d need a card with a value of 15. Personally, I think Stitched Together are the best choice for summoning, as Hard to Kill and Reactivate are both become very relevant as soon as you're above 1 health. 

 

The Alp bomb still exists, though it uses different mechanics now. I’m impressed by the Alps. I wouldn't ever hire them outside of a Dreamer crew, but they do work well together, dishing out slow and killing something with a thousand-cuts. I'd be careful about using this trick against something with Black Blood, though.

 

Dreamer is the Neverborn's best summoner. While he may lack the overwhelming activations of Hamelin or the sheer brutality of Nicodem, he's nevertheless quite good, with an array of deceptively powerful Minions and Enforcers at his disposal. You can also play him as a finesse Master, upgrading him to dish out damage with Lord Chompy and conditions with his crew without relying on summoning, but honestly, I think Lilith does that job a little better with her Nephilim. It's not impossible - Dreamer's still very good - but it's a more difficult road to travel than it was in the previous edition.

[StaticVortex]

Chompy is a nightmare within 6" of the Widow Weaver in this scenario. 

That makes sense....and, Chompy is not purchased...so no upgrades for him.

 

So, cozy him up to a pet spider, then: push, fly, chomp.

[StaticVortex]

Played more games with The Dreamer and have moved towards using his summon ability though the Dreams of Pain upgrade, using a pair daydreams to push, push, accomplice, push, sacrifice for the mask...making progress up the field faster, and sets Dreamer up to summon his heart out.  Like Arkion said, Stiched is an excellent choice and if you accomplice him while staying at or below 2 waking, he'll heal and be set for his Hard to Kill and reactivate abilites.  The twins are also good choices, particularly if you can remove slow.  After reading the card, I was concerned that Coppelious was not going to perform well...but after playing with him, I think he's going to do well.  In fact, Coppelious has become my first choice for the On Dreaming Wings now.  Insideous Madness makes an excellent objective runner, and all I use him for now.  Finally, the Tantrum upgrade has proven effective and will likely become a staple of my crew as well.