Godgolden Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Katanaka Sniper Anybody had a look at this seriously amazing guy? Just played a game and he was by far the star of the show, perhaps... alittle too good? Built in positive attack flip, CB 5 with his 14" gun that doubles range if you focus.. a great damage track and critical strike? He is an absolute beast, I had a Peasant and Shenlong and Sensei Yu nearby and he.. Got pushed, made fast, given Focus by peasant... ... he then shot with focus (+1 CB), (0)'d to focus shoot again (and again +1 CB from Yu)and why not.. a third standard shot.. that seems alot right? it is. Anybody else concerned? he just rocks the socks compared to an Archer for the same points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Haven't yet checked them out but that sounds pretty brutal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misery Rex Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Yep, these guys are extremely solid and will probably be filling the ranged component in most 10T crews. They are costed at the same SS cost as the Archers but the Archers bring a host of utility abilities that the more straightforward Snipers lack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godgolden Posted February 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 A host of utility abilities? Sniper has conditional reactive (when leader dies) has an amazing melee attack: CB 5 positive flips to attack, great damage range 2", has hard to kill and can dish out slow on a (0) oh and 'from the shadows' Archer has rapid fire and a blast attack, can dish out slow on a normal shot which is ranged 12" im alittle at a loss as to what utility you refer to? Seems clear cut to me, I can't think of a reason you would take an Archer over sniper, sure standing behind a HT 3 model and he can't easily be targetted but Archer has always seemed way over-priced to me, seems more of a 5 stone model (my humble opion) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misery Rex Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Well...those Archers.... -they ignore other models for LOS purposes and they do not have to randomize targets when firing into a Melee...which is huge, especially for masters like Misaki -that blast attack? It doesn't require LOS...which is huge. -rapid fire which gives them three attacks. -an additional +1 Focus every time they Focus (which with Shenlong is pretty sweet, having two +1 Focus for a (0) action) Now for abilities requiring suits... -a Df trigger which gives them a 5" move -an attack trigger which can hand out slow, which in a five turn game can really hurt the enemies ability to get stuff done So...if I were running a 10T crew with Smoke and Shadows and/or a Melee master I could see some solid reasons to take the Archers. But yeah, the Snipers are really, really solid... though complaining about this AFTER the beta has closed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnternalVoid Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Misery Rex hit something important with the ability to shot into melee without randomizing and not caring if other models are in the way for LOS. So he can sit 8" behind your own models and Rapid fire at anyone that gets into melee with your own. More so that they cannot just shift a bit and put your models between them to stop shooting like I have against Santiago before. That said they seem to fit two different roles of shooting. The Snipers are about the early parts of the game, helping to control the floor from turn 1 but when the combat crash might start happening they might be left out of range to come charging to help due to short charge. Archers seem to be more about turn 2-3 and onward picking off models in combat or in the open and added that extra support with out actively throwing a model into the combat. With Shenlong you get the advance of being also able to focus then do their (2) AP attack. Now of the two I favor the snipers right now, as I like influencing my opponent's decisions from the get go, but I will not underestimate the archers abiliy to be annoying. And if you thought they were nasty now you should have seen them in the Beta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misery Rex Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Hell, if you think the Archers can be annoying in play try assembling them... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TarlSS Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 The thing that sort of makes it work is that archers are complimentary to snipers. They are not mutually exclusive. Sniper and archers fulfill different types of ranged roles- snipers act as well, snipers, covering long distances and picking off individuals. Archers handle close in support, taking care of units in cover and in melee, breaking up groups. Together they can cover the board and set up incredibly deadly 'kill zones' where all three units can act in concert. Snipers statwise, are as good in melee as they are at ranged combat, minus the whole obvious "ranged advantage over melee" thing. They can charge and screen naturally. This means that they can charge and screen naturally for archers, who will be constantly firing. Throw in the Samurai and you have a really versatile melee and ranged game. The rather obvious Shenlong/Yu/Sniper/Archer/Samurai+Extras combo looks like a deadly hail of fire that can't be shutdown in melee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 http://warzonegame.com/product/66/ronin-samurai.html Just saw those guys, look kinda cool. Though they aren't snipers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnternalVoid Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Hell, if you think the Archers can be annoying in play try assembling them... I have put together one so far... the other two are still on the spruces till I decide I need them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godgolden Posted February 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 I have played against Archers again and again, used by a variety of players, the 7 SS they take seems more like a handicap as well, the archers are super squishy and they need to get within that golden 12" range, hell, snipers own them if they so much as pop a mill of base out into view, im clearly not going to win a battle opinions but test the Sniper, he's a solid model, but is he too solid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misery Rex Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 I have played against Archers again and again, used by a variety of players, the 7 SS they take seems more like a handicap as well, the archers are super squishy and they need to get within that golden 12" range, hell, snipers own them if they so much as pop a mill of base out into view, im clearly not going to win a battle opinions but test the Sniper, he's a solid model, but is he too solid? As I said I pretty much agree with you on some of your points. The Archer is a more specialized and more situational unit, it's inclusion would be based on building my crew in a certain way. The Sniper on the other hand is a much better all around performer and a better value for its points. I am not sure what you mean by too solid. The Sniper made it through beta testing and has been finalized so the consensus in the community and among the developers seemed to be that it is a balanced model. Perhaps it is that the Archer are over costed? Is the objection that in relation to the Archers the Snipers are too good and are under costed or that the Archers are not worth 7 SS, as they are two separate issues. Or is it that the Snipers are just too powerful all around? Maybe if we could focus on what your objection is specifically we could better address it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 The archers seem to be a bit tricky, people either really like them or they find them useless. I haven't tried them myself, as I don't own the models, I heard they were painful to put together and I had enough with Yan Lo. I think it's good that there's an alternative to them in a form of Katanaka Sniper or even complimentary to them. Do you feel that the katanaka's are overpowered? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeleteAccount Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 The Katanaka pretty much made the archers and samurai be invisible, and I was one of the guys that felt archers were mostly worth it. Being able to shot into melee just isn't worth it when you can take a piece that is shooting from turn 1 without a problem, is good in melee, can also dish out slow in a riskier but much more reliable way and who doesn't fold/become useless if engaged. The archer's blast I've yet to actually use and only seems usable with Shenlong/peasants/Toshiro handing out easy focus and the slow is nice, but requires a high crow normally to get that hit. Also, the archer's defensive trigger is a bad joke. Is it that archers don't do enough or that Katanaka do too much? Not really sure about that question, but I do know what's better on most situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolguy Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 As I said I pretty much agree with you on some of your points. The Archer is a more specialized and more situational unit, it's inclusion would be based on building my crew in a certain way. The Sniper on the other hand is a much better all around performer and a better value for its points. I am not sure what you mean by too solid. The Sniper made it through beta testing and has been finalized so the consensus in the community and among the developers seemed to be that it is a balanced model. Perhaps it is that the Archer are over costed? Is the objection that in relation to the Archers the Snipers are too good and are under costed or that the Archers are not worth 7 SS, as they are two separate issues. Or is it that the Snipers are just too powerful all around? Maybe if we could focus on what your objection is specifically we could better address it. As a new player I am only going by stats and my limited understanding. In a friendly encounter I would say one is OK, two would be a bit OP especially combined with say Lone Swordsman. For a tourney these three would form the base of my crew as of now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadaka Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 I can see the argument for sniper being better then the archer. Both of them have uses that being said most of the time I would take the sniper. I advocated for these guys to be better at melee and worse with the gun in beta. I dont think they invalidate the Samuri. Samuri are close in melee but they are sporting a lot of armor and are more of a defensive unit. I do think samuri got screwed because of that giant gun they are sporting. Made them focus on balance on 2 directions and as a result are meh for there cost at both. More of an issue with Samuri being week and less of the sniper makeing them second class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misery Rex Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 The new 10T upgrades in Beta testing look to be trying to balance out these issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TarlSS Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Yeah..I think maybe the issue is that the Samurai and Archer are not as good for their SS, while they feel that the sniper is appropriate for 7SS. I'll admit it's probably true, compare a Katanaka sniper to an Illuminated...you get two strong, yet different choices. One is a tank, the other a stiletto. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeleteAccount Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Yeah..I think maybe the issue is that the Samurai and Archer are not as good for their SS, while they feel that the sniper is appropriate for 7SS. I'll admit it's probably true, compare a Katanaka sniper to an Illuminated...you get two strong, yet different choices. One is a tank, the other a stiletto. Well, Katanaka snipers and Illuminated are at the very high end of what is expected of a 7 SS model. I mean, a punk zombie ain't no slouch, but the other two seem better overall to me than a punk. So it's not that the archer and samurai are below and the Katanaka is just right, it's that they are below, the Katanaka a bit better and that makes the difference between the 3 seem that more abysmal. Anyway, the new upgrades hopefully will help with that, though I feel the Samurai being a 9 SS piece with no access to upgrades at that point needs something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misery Rex Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Yeah, that 9 SS price point for Samurai gets them in the realm of models like Kang, Toshiro and Sensei Yu. Not sure if they are pulling their weight at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Yeah, that 9 SS price point for Samurai gets them in the realm of models like Kang, Toshiro and Sensei Yu. Not sure if they are pulling their weight at that point. Hard to justify them over those options for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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