Tara's upgrades and essential pieces?

[SpiralngCadavr]

So, there's been some discussion of Tara's upgrades, mostly in the context of purchasing the Avatar upgrade, so now I'm curious to get a consensus, here.

 

What upgrades are people using with her? Do you take different ones fielding her as a resser? Same goes for what you models consider absolutely essential to her play style.

 

 

 

For how I play, I consider the following essential:

Knowledge of Eternity

Obliteration Symbiote

Dead of Winter

 

1 Death Marshal

1 Void Wretch

[SteampunkCake]

it depends on what you need to accomplish, if the schemes and strategy are heavily scheme based you want to go wretch heavy. You'll probably want to take 2 heavy hitters such as taelor, bishop, killjoy, Lazarus, desolation engine, Johan, occasionally the nothing beast. Death marshals are useful but only if you want to go for the 1 - 2 - smash. In my 45ss list I take:

Tara 6 SS
Knowledge of eternity
Obliteration symbiote
Dead of winter
Taelor or another hitter, taelor is my go to gal for most games as she can put out some serious hurt when unburied near several models.
Another hitter such as Lazarus or Bishop.
3 Void wretches
1 death marshal


Keep in mind this is just a generalist list, got some combat skill, got a bit of range and you've got scheme grabbers, a few models multitask such as death marshal being a shooter and a schemer.

I've never taken her as a resser yet, waiting for punk zombies to come out first of all. Belle's could be quite good, nice durable models with the ability to hand out slow and also drag models out of formation to get murdered by a heavy hitter. If you don't need to bring a marshal the upgrade that allows Tara to just jump back to your deployment zone is a god send if she gets tied up or needs to be elsewhere.

[Drool_bucket]

When used as an Outcast, I don't select Dead of WInter.  1ss plus an upgrade slot is too much to drag in Death Marshalls.

 

If I want a second model capable of bury, I would use Hannah.  Or consider the Malifaux Child as a Totem.

 

What I have been using is Scramble.  I find Tara uses her 6 AP to walk 2-3 times each turn, scoring VPs and keeping her out of trouble.  That means I am getting a lot of value out of that extra inch of movement, not too mention the ignoring Severe terrain.

 

As for models, I have been enjoying using the paired shooters recently, Sue and a Convict Gunslinger.  Tara can move them into position with fast where they get lots of shots off.  I enjoy the CS Sh6 stat more than Sue's 5, though Sue (obviously) brings more to the table for almost the same value.

 

The only other must haves are something to engage the enemy with.  I haven't tried the Strongarm yet but he may just be tough enough, not too mention hard hitting enough, to be worth while....

[SpiralngCadavr]

Interesting. I'd been looking at Hannah as an alternative, glad to see it's worthwhile.

[DeleteAccount]

As a resser player, dead of winter is pretty much a requirement if I want to go with her buy game, but the wp debuff is so incredibly underwhelming that it's sometimes hard to justify. I feel that on a budget, Knowledge of Eternity covers all your burying needs along with Obliteration Symbiote and that frees up a slot for spare parts for example. Dead of winter is still tempting simply because of opening marshals and their ranged potential to ressers, but void wretches have some very harsh competition for scenario play in resser crews and the nothing beast is competing with the Valedictorian, which may lack the extra AP, but with triggers has a more reliably damage spread while being able to take more pain.

 

Enemy burying outside of a lucky Pull the Void that you used to slow something and the target happened to fail isn't something that you should actually plan on, but when it does happen, it is a welcome surprise. Voiceless Words is a pretty bad upgrade, though it is another card waster for the enemy and in a bad luck day can cost him dearly, but since most enemies will have already activated when they kill the model, the penalty can actually be a benefit letting them relocate and not be able to be damaged with any reliability while buried. Eternal Journey can be interesting, but it directly competes with her reactivate which is her main selling point and that hurts it a lot while whispers from Darkness can be fun.

[SpiralngCadavr]

That's surprising, I actually feel the WP penalty is pretty useful... in combination with stronger WP attacks rather than those flat Glimpse triggers that are mostly there to drain your opponent's hands (or the lucky failure).

 

I also agree that EJ is pretty weak in that it competes with another activation (and a strong denial ability).

[Drool_bucket]

Eternal Journeys does not directly compete with her Reactivate ability.

 

You can use her first (0) to give herself Reactivate and then during her second Activation use (0) Eternal Journies to return to her Deployment Zone at anytime during her second Activation.  It's very nice to be able to put Tara in harm's way during that second activation only to (0) out of there a the end.

 

I struggle to take Scramble over that upgrade (Eternal Journy one)... but I find myself selecting Schemes that require Tara to be on the other side of the board in most of her games, so jumping back to her deployment zone would be counter productive.

 

That said, in a Reckoning/Kill Scheme Setting, Eternal Journy would allow Tara to really move her crew around and keep them safe® while pouncing on specific enemy models.  Re-locating a heavy hitter across the board is very powerful.

[zugov]

But according to the "Zero AP Actions" bubble on page 37 of the rule book: "A model may only take one of these 'free' actions per turn", so doesn't that mean you couldn't use Eternal Moment and Eternal Journey in the same turn?

[SpiralngCadavr]

Oh, so, it's fine to use outside of her first activation? I thought the intent was that it was only allowed during her first activation.

 

If that's allowed, what's stopping you from doing the following:

1-activate Tara first

2-have all your other models go, except buried model(s)

3-have Tara gain reactivate, since all models that could go did

4-have Tara go again, dumping out a model through Faces, which then (chain) activates, which means that now all other models have gone, giving Tara Reactivate again

5- repeat 4 for every model you can unbury that hasn't activated

 

...or does it mean that buried friendlies prevent Tara from gaining Reactivate?

edit: models can only get reactivate once an activation.

 

It seems like, if "first model to activate" isn't equivalent to "when this model activates first," then one or the other of the above should be true. Am I missing something

 

 

EDIT: Zugov, that looks correct. I'd been playing one 0 per activation, but don't think I can find anything that contradicts your quote.

[Drool_bucket]

@Zugov I don't have rulebook in hand, will have to look at your quote, that could alter things....

 

But as it stands, (Ausplosions discussed this in another recent Tara thread) the way we see it as long as Tara is the first to Activate in a turn, you have satisified the requirement of Eternal Jounry (or whatever the name of the (0) is that puts her back in her deployment zone) which allows her to use it during her second activation.

 

Moving on, a model can only have the reactivate condition once per turn, check the description, I think its in there.

 

 

[SpiralngCadavr]

The exact wording is "Some models will have Actions that have an AP cost of 0. A model may take only one of these "free" Actions per Turn."

 

It looks pretty cut and dry unless something's been errata'd that I didn't find.  edit: Errata'd as activation, not turn

 

Interestingly, Instinctual makes mention to Activations instead of Turns.

[zugov]

My bad, seen the errata now, it's the first one on page 9 of the FAQ/Errata, changed to once per activation instead of turn, now I definitely see Tara as more of a movement controller than just burying/unburying fast maker.

[DeleteAccount]

The Eternal Journey in her last activation seems more like something that got through than actual intent, should probably be added to the next faq, though I certainly would appreciate it more then.

 

And I don't like the WP debuff since it only works on models with fast and I've learned the hard way that making more than a single enemy model fast is a quick way to get your ass handed.

[PeregrineFalcon]

The Eternal Journey in her last activation seems more like something that got through than actual intent, should probably be added to the next faq, though I certainly would appreciate it more then.

I disagree. It's pretty clear, def not something that "got through". As long as she activates first she can use it.

[SpiralngCadavr]

The Eternal Journey in her last activation seems more like something that got through than actual intent, should probably be added to the next faq, though I certainly would appreciate it more then.

 

And I don't like the WP debuff since it only works on models with fast and I've learned the hard way that making more than a single enemy model fast is a quick way to get your ass handed.

Re: EJ: I think it wasn't the clearest writing, but I do think the intent is pretty straightforward.

 

Re: not liking the WP buff, well, yeah. 90%+ of the time, you'll be giving one enemy fast and either killing them quickly (if they're weak) or repeatedly taking advantage of their penalty (if they're a big piece).

 

I don't see why that makes it bad? It seems like every time you bring it up, you bring up the same point. By comparison, my first game vs. the Hungering Darkness, both I and my opponent expected it to keep coming back, but it didn't get a chance to, and my opponent lost hard because of it. I don't go railing about how bad the HD was because I had a misconception of its power level before I saw it in action.

 

It's hardly the most powerful or least risky condition-based buff, but you've got a lot of ways of taking advantage of it.

[Ausplosions]

Again.

Really?

It's not something that "got through". It is worded exactly how it works.

Was she the first to activate? Yes.

Then you can use it. I fail to see the ambiguity here.

[DeleteAccount]

Again.

Really?

It's not something that "got through". It is worded exactly how it works.

Was she the first to activate? Yes.

Then you can use it. I fail to see the ambiguity here.

Hold your horses cobwoy, yeah, I get the wording, what I mean is that MAYBE the idea behind it was that it only applied during the activation she activates first. I certainly never read it the other way, certainly never tested it the other way and I have my doubts people even knew the wording allowed that. Now if you can link me to a post from Justin saying "yeah, that was the idea the whole time", then I'll shut up, but I'm still thinking it was a wording that might have had an idea but came out the other way. I'd still prefer it to be like you say because that way I would be a lot more inclined to use it, just saying that I wouldn't be surprised if it came out being the other way either.

[Ausplosions]

Hold your horses cobwoy, yeah, I get the wording, what I mean is that MAYBE the idea behind it was that it only applied during the activation she activates first. I certainly never read it the other way, certainly never tested it the other way and I have my doubts people even knew the wording allowed that. Now if you can link me to a post from Justin saying "yeah, that was the idea the whole time", then I'll shut up, but I'm still thinking it was a wording that might have had an idea but came out the other way. I'd still prefer it to be like you say because that way I would be a lot more inclined to use it, just saying that I wouldn't be surprised if it came out being the other way either.

Maybe everything was a wording mistake.

[DeleteAccount]

Maybe everything was a wording mistake.

Pretty much, since I don't know what Justin was really thinking, I have no idea what is the plan he had in mind, so yeah, you are right that with the current wording, what you say is 100% legit (and I'm frankly hoping that is how it ends up being), but clunky wording might have not had it as it's real intent. She was the master that spent less time in the oven during the whole M2E process after all.

[SpiralngCadavr]

Yeah, I feel like, as much as I enjoy playing Tara, she has some weird loopholes and is overly dependent on her upgrades. Wish I'd been involved in the first wave beta, since I really like her concept but don't always feel the best about her activation.

[Sonova]

There is always room for death marshalls.

[zugov]

Thought it was "There's always room for cake".

On topic though, do people not rate Marshalls with her? I know the Karina red joker is a long shot but surely a peacebringer and extra bury are useful.

[SpiralngCadavr]

I always take one, sometimes take more. As Outcast there are better pistol options, and often I don't have room for more, since usually it's the one doing escort duty that then swaps to attack once the heavy hitter has been delivered.

[DeleteAccount]

As a resser, marshals are a godsend, but Tara is pretty upgrade saturated, I personally like to give her spare parts since it lets her be a summoner and gives her stuff to do with her boatload of AP, so with those 2 I'm already 2 upgrades down and the third becomes very hard to decide on. But yeah, at least in ressers, marshals are AOK.

[Barnaberible]

Interesting, I never take death marshal's (I play resser) simply because I don't want to have the Dead of Winter upgrade taking up one of my slots, I don't dish out fast (too risky for me) and I can do without the Void Wretches in a resser list, but Knowledge of Eternity and Obliteration Symbiote are essential for the way I play her.