Meliondor Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 So what did we get out of the second wave ? I checked the cards and here is my full theoryfaux opinion about them. Good thing: I will not have to spend too much money soon. The new masters are of course all interesting, just because every master is interesting, but oustide of that I will just need to buy pathfinders... Hoffmann Interesting caster with giving out his upgrades, repairs and sharing attributes around. Will have problems at smaller games, because his synergie chain needs certain models. Nothing game breaking. Ryle Expensive, not much sustain, good damge. Really missing a book for defense to be worth taking with anyone else than Hoffmann. Interesting movement and heal ability. At least 1 point too much. Not useful Mechanical Attendant Only there to give Hoffmann fast and DF 5. For Hoffmann useful. Guardian Overpriced, no damage…only usefull for DF 6. But just too expensive. Lucius Our special master for scheme markers. Elite training in small are, scheme things and an ability, that needs always a suit… An other master, nothing game breaking. On the weaker side IMHO. Dashel Only useful with many rifleman. Otherwise completely overpriced. You need 2-3 rifleman to make him worth his points…but Riflemen do not work with Lucius (he makes them better in melee). Useless Abuela Ortega Ok defense now, interesting gun with too less range. Faster than you think, can give extra action around with 8+card. Nothing great, but ok Guild Hound Weak, cheap, only useful in groups, but then has a limited use if you want to place scheme markers. I think they are useless Guard Seargent Nothing special. Useless in my opinion, because he needs to many other models to work Hunter Squishy for the points, but cool abilities and ok damage. Workhorse for construct armies and so ok Guild Lawyer No damage, interesting defensive ability, but nothing that makes him good Watcher Can negate cover or share LoS. Cheap and can place scheme markers while flying. See no use forhim Exorcist Overpriced for its dmg… Pistolero Cheap, increases defense, special attack ability…absolutely great for its points! Pale Rider Too expensive, to less dmg for this points Warden Cheap workhorse for construct armies. Ok. Witchling Handler Most useful with many witchlings or to spread fire attacks. Could be interesting with Sonnia. But very expensive for this abilities Brutal Effigy See no reason to take it…. Guild Rifleman 1 / 2 / 4 dmg does not impress me. Would take wichtlings or pistoleros instead of them. Not useful Guild pathfinder Good musket and fun with traps. I think they might even be overpowered for this points… They place a trap in front of them and shoot, if an opponent attacks them he has to deal with the trap. McCabe An other caster, that gives out upgrades to minions. Not good in melee or ranged, so mostly an interesting form of support. Just an other master Sidir Better at ranged than at melee. Expensive, but can be fun. Ok Luna Not good herself, but making guild dogs great! Wastrel Ok for 4 points Lazarus Would be so great for us….bot NO, he hates the maker Sue Anti-charge fire spreading, card drawing half-beatstick. Ok for the points Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Well that was depressing to read.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hjelmen Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Well that was depressing to read.. It sure was... I might not have played that many games of M2E, but it really doesn't seem that bleak to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonova Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Lucius only buffs melee? Lawls. Obvious troll is trolling. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azula Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 I'm somewhat doubtful that OP gave the cards more than a single glance. I'm afraid I must disagree with most of what you said (well, the models being called useless at least). Especially the part where you called Hoffman an "interesting master". Riflemen only doing 1/2/4?! Did you read the card? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 No kidding this seems totally off from anything I'm reading. So Guild got two Augmenting Masters, and a whole bunch of models they can buff that create different styles of play and allow you to do more than the direct route of 'kill everything'... And that means they got little to nothing useful? I'm seeing a lot of theory-faux that has nothing to back it up. Actually play some games before you start declaring the sky is falling, please. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracomax Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 I'm also going to have to disagree with the following vehemently: Witchling Handler Guardian Pale Rider Hounds Watcher THose being the ones I actually have played with. Honestly, it kind of looks like everything was evaluated in terms of "how much can it kill/avoid dieing" and therefore any kind of support abilities or scheme manipulation was ignored. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Honestly, it kind of looks like everything was evaluated in terms of "how much can it kill/avoid dieing" and therefore any kind of support abilities or scheme manipulation was ignored. But that's how you win the game. Meet in the middle and kill everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meliondor Posted February 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Well, as I said: Theoryfaux, nothing more. The masters all offer some new playstyles and are all interesting. But nothing as great and game breaking as collette, just masters, that bring some options on the table and are fully viable (like most masters). Hoffmann will work at 40 points or more, because only then he can make best use of healing, upgrades and take all the models he wants. He would be so great with Lazarus, but well....he hates the creator :-). This is why most constructs are ok with him (except guardian...which is just expensive). Lucius is our scheme marker caster. Lots of minions. First idea is of course an army with many guild guard models and seargent and captain Dashel. But then you will realise, that it is just safer to take only models, that can stand on their own, because the synergie is not that great for the points. Mostly because Dashel is overpriced wihout 2-3 rifleman. Mc Cabe is no beatstick himself. His most useful ability (except from leaving his horse when he dies) is the giving around of upgrades. If he could give this upgrades to enforcers it would be great, but also with wichtlings I see nothing game breaking here. Just an all around solid master, that can work with the right army composition. The new ortegas are both ok. Granny might see some playtime now and the pistoleros are great even outside of the family. Pathfinders are just great, just like the austringers were before. Both great models. But other than that ? The whole guardsmen support theme will be expensive and guardsman will still not perform as good as pathfinders or austrrngers :-). I fear the whole team will not work as good, as a list that simply uses some better beatsticks for the points. Other models, like lawyer, exorcist, Pale Rider, watcher will never see playtime for me. If you have an other opinion share it, I am interested to see what use you see in models i would never use over witchlings, austringers, pistoleros, Franc or trappers (which are all awesome) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 I agree with the above posters.... The guild got some awesome stuff. Your initial slap dash painting of black and white isn't really all that legitimate without thoroughly testing these models. Some more informed comments would be appreciated than "Oh, Lucas can't kill very much, therefor he sucks... fact." What a load of tosh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeryt Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 I might be a noob, but I know powergamer when I see one. Ain't this game supposed to be balanced? Each and every stat card I read, I find the model useful. Not OP, not broken. Just useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonova Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Dashel is actually good with any flavour of guardsman because he gives focused as a (0) allowing you to make focused melee attacks when you charge as well as just ranged attacks. The rifleman interaction is actually a massive red herring because ALL GUARDSMEN MODELS (except puppies) have guns. He is comfortable hanging out in a cloud of Wardens, Sergeants and yes normal Guardsmen and making them able to focus and then charge in for +flips on attack AND damage for the first attack. And he does that just by standing there... He also comes with either 3-4 low end damage or 2 damage and slow. On ML6 with both armor and hard to kill. He is one of the reasons why puppies had to be cuddled so hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracomax Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Watcher is great. It allows you to more or less shoot around corners. Gaurdian means that your glass cannon gets up to 2 actions in which it is not glass at all, and awesome territory denial for schemes. Also, It will stop anything trying to walk out of range fairly easily. I expect to take him often with Lady J, and slightly less often with Sonnia, because ti will mean they can get in the fray with impunity. :+fate on Lady J's Df with Riposte is scary, and might justify taking the thalarian Stone. Pale rider lost some killing power because he is ranged. he is still extremely killy, and late game extremely difficult to kill. He also has a lot of scheme utility. He is probably the second best rider. Lawyer is one of the most interesting new models in the game. I honestly can't wait to try him out, but will have problems fitting him into my guild crews. I may have to finally get some crew for Lucius. Exorcist and Abuela don't interest me much, simply because they both strike me as a bit too mixed in design philosophy. that being said, I can see uses for both, especially The Exorcist with guild marshall upgrades. Witchling Handler is going to be awesome with Sonnia, and if you add Samuel in(I know, 17 SS in a 50 SS game, that's about a third of your crew, but With Lady Justice and some death martials, or a bunch of hounds, it could be totally worth it) it becomes a second squad that can assassinate almost any model on one side of the field. and the Handler is no slouch at dealing damage herself. Given that Hoffman is designed to work at 50, like every other master, I have no problem with him working at 40 or more. Keeping in mind the fact the designers have repeatedly said that the game is really only balanced at 50, it is not a big deal. To say he only works because of the way he designed is kind of disingenuous. Lady j only works because she has high damage. Sonnia only works because of burning. Pandora only works because of Wp duels. It doesn't really say much. It is a different playstyle, and not caring for it is a valid viewpoint, but calling it lackluster or worthless really isn't. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonova Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Sonnia only works because of CA 9 Corrected! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 So far I have won every game in my campaign league with Lucius and a cloud of minions. I can say that everyone hates the lawyer with a passion (though I think their fear of fees is a little irrational). I have found myself capable of winning both in attrition and scheme-laying with him. His ability to get an austringer into position to be hitting on the first turn alone is enough reason to fear him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracomax Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 You know, I just realised. the best way to find out how good something is on these forums seems to be to disparage it. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastershake Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 You know, I just realised. the best way to find out how good something is on the internet seems to be to disparage it. If you say a model is bad, no matter demonstrably inferrior it is to other options someone will defend it. If you say a model is great, no matter demonstrably above the power curve it is, someone will say it's bad. Putting an opinion out on a model is like sending up a bat-signal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Hoffmann will work at 40 points or more, Here's part of the problem. Are you considering all of these models at less than 40ss games? Since the game is balanced for 50ss.....obviously that isn't going to work. It also appears that most of the models are viewed in a vacuum......several statements were 'they need other models to work'.......well, yeah.....it's called Synergy....and this game is all about synergy. One guy shoots, one guy makes your shooty models better, one guy fights in melee, one guy makes melee models better, one guy is good with Scheme Markers, one guy de-buffs enemy models.........again, that's called Synergy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunarSol Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Brutal Effigy See no reason to take it…. Brutal Effigy is a Guild Guard that's faster, slightly more durable and not reliant on another Guard for a solid defensive stat. It hands out slow and has an ok support ability, but I'm guessing its probably one of the best objective runners in the faction for its points BEFORE including Finish the Job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunt.er Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 I also dont catch those bad mentions about the new guild model stats. The Hounds could be matchwinners, combined with the Sergeant`s schememarkershift the can charge for 1 ap quiet early in the game. Riflemen makes charge actions harmful for the opponent, dashel supports them. Exorcists brings as much fear to Rezzers as nothing else. The Hunters with their mobility and pounce on chest can also marke three attacks per turn, while the enemy model gets slow. And as said certain times above: the ss-pool for usual games was raised from 35 to 50, so the balancing is locked on 50 and not on a lower value. I`m almost happy about the W2 stats so dont nag, just enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Hahahhahahahahaha!!!!! The OP made me lol with his breakdown of new guild stuff. What's amusing is how differently two people can read the same cards and come to totally different opinions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drool_bucket Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Wow, you Guild players think you have it bad, did you see my rundown of the Outcasts? Jack Daw - this guy is *dead!* how can dead dude win anything? Montressor - this guy is a tree! unless we are playing WFB Wood Elves, I think we have a problem Leveticus - this guy has only Df5 and 8 Wds and has to hurt himself to be even average. Completely Useless Rusty - she can do what Leveticus does, but not as good, and he stinks! What's that say about her! Hamelin - His condition does nothing. He uses 2ss Rats as his go to minion, how is he supposed to win? I could go on and on! 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausplosions Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Here's part of the problem. Are you considering all of these models at less than 40ss games? Since the game is balanced for 50ss.....obviously that isn't going to work. It also appears that most of the models are viewed in a vacuum......several statements were 'they need other models to work'.......well, yeah.....it's called Synergy....and this game is all about synergy. One guy shoots, one guy makes your shooty models better, one guy fights in melee, one guy makes melee models better, one guy is good with Scheme Markers, one guy de-buffs enemy models.........again, that's called Synergy. Most Bestest Post Ever. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunarSol Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 To turn things around, what do people think are strong adds to Guild in Wave 2? Favorite new Master/Minion/Enforcer/Henchman? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gipsy_Danger Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Personal favourite has to go to the Hounds, I'm very excited to try them out with McCabe soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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