Collodi Tactica: Many String-Based Names

[Bodiless]

Except isn't spreading out exactly what this crew doesn't want to do? Did you find you were losing your puppet buffs or was it ok?

[EntrepeNinja]

And, Wong has ways of making you bunch...

 

I would say, probably, it would be best to go after a bag of props build instead of a fated (if you know you're going up against a heavy blast dropper). Keep a couple mannequins around to give you focus or defensive, and one to be a personal puppet. Then focus on Pulling the Strings on your enemies to push them out of position, or cause havoc within their own ranks. Not every Collodi crew has to be a death ball.

 

ENinja

[Bodiless]

Pretty much everyone I play against now has a large selection of masters to choose from. No way to tell if you will see Sonnia or Hoffman, Rasputina or Marcus. So any crew-build solutions have to be pretty general.

[EntrepeNinja]

Well, then I would say experiment with lists that are less dependent on the deathball technique. If you're getting shot off the table when you group up, and feel like you have to group up, then you're in some trouble. If your crew is a little more flexible- both good in deathball if you're allowed to, or spreading out individually, you'll have more options of a Sonnia or a Raspy pop up.

 

You might also consider dragging in a Hannah. She's good, generally, can steal casts, but also has some anti-magic aura (iirc). Or Sue, for the same reasons. He's a good shooter on his own, but also can throw up some anti-caster auras.

 

ENinja

[Bodiless]

I've never used Collodi before but I am interested in him, so this is more of a question of "is this something people are finding to be a problem?". What would be a sample list that could deathball up but could break apart well if your opponent dropped Sonnia?

[EntrepeNinja]

Realistically, "The crew that gets to job done."

 

But more specifically:

Neverborn Crew - 50 - Scrap

 

Collodi -- 6 Pool

 +Bag of Props [1]

 +Strum the Threads [1]

 

Marionette X 2 [6]

Black Blood Shaman [7]

Brutal Effigy [4]

Stitched Together [6]

The Illuminated [7]

The Illuminated [7]

Widow Weaver [8]

 

 

The marionette can skirt around Collodi- taking the focus or the defensive action to pass that up to him when/if he needs it. The brutal effigy slips around outside of 6 but can still use his 0 to let collodi get reliable heals on his attacks. BBS works with the illuminated, giving them more AoE dammage, and potentially more survivability (you can Black Blood Pustule the illuminated to make them explode, as well as heal 2 wounds) which makes them amazing bloodbombs.

 

The widow weaver is good at prompting out of activation terrifying checks, and dropping WP with web markers. Most of them are still minions, so if you end up close enough, you can still my will people to do things. Giving the BBS or an Illuminated an extra swing or two can be great. And you can still pull strings into melee at 10" giving out slow, taking ap, making them do things, and doing damage. 

 

I haven't played Collodi against many blast placers, but I've played other deathball style crews against them. Hoffman's the only one with an active defense against blast markers. You just gotta try and spread the love- make them have to choose between squad a (widow weaver, illuminated and a black blood shaman) or squad b (A super charged collodi with a brutal effigy for healing and cards and a stitched together).

 

ENinja

[cursingbulldog]

Anyone ever take Lazarus and Hannah together with collodi? Looking at her pull my finger page seems like she can steal assimilate from Lazarus to give collodi a "6th" AP. I'd probably run it in a list with a bunch of alps for all that slow damage in something like a collect the bounty or headhunter game.

Maybe something like this:

3SS Pool

Neverborn

50ss - Scrap

Collodi

+Bag of Props 1ss

+Pact 1ss

+Strum the Threads 1ss

3x Alp 9ss

Arcane or Shadow Effigy 4ss

Brutal or Lucky Effigy 4ss

Coppelius 8ss

Hannah 11ss

Lazarus 11ss

[asrian]

Assimilate is a 0AP ability. She can only copy 1AP abilities, unless she's copying a Friekorps Leader, then she can copy a 0AP.

[zFiend]

No but I think she can copy leader abilities if the leader is a Freikorps and she can copy 0 abilities if the target is a Freikorps. If I remember her card correctly.

[cursingbulldog]

No but I think she can copy leader abilities if the leader is a Freikorps and she can copy 0 abilities if the target is a Freikorps. If I remember her card correctly.

That's the way I read it over lunch. Lazarus is Freikorps and assimilate is a 0 and doesn't have the non leader wording so she should be able to use it if you hit the target number for both abilities.

And if the wording from her ability caries through and she can't target Collodi with assimilate then she can't target any leader models except Von Schill with any abilities she steals with the Make a New Entry.

[zFiend]

I don't see a problem with it. I'd have to read the card again on Hannah. But that's the way I've understood Make A New Entry.

[asrian]

That's the way I read it over lunch. Lazarus is Freikorps and assimilate is a 0 and doesn't have the non leader wording so she should be able to use it if you hit the target number for both abilities.

And if the wording from her ability caries through and she can't target Collodi with assimilate then she can't target any leader models except Von Schill with any abilities she steals with the Make a New Entry.

Just re-read over both cards (Hannah and Lazarus) and yes, that actually should work fine with no problems. You'd need two 6+'s to make it work. Hannah Makes a new entry on Lazarus with the in built trigger to use 0AP action instead of a 1AP Cast action. She then uses his Assimilate to use My Will from Collodi (Target Construct) and can then target Collodi with My Will for another action.

As for the "Target Leader" part of Make a New Entry it says: "This Action may not target friendly Leaders unless the target has the Freikorps characteristic." You aren't targeting a friendly leader with Make a New Entry, but instead are targeting Lazarus to use his ability. There is no restriction about leaders on his ability, just that the target must be a Construct, which Collodi is, so it should work fine.

[zFiend]

So that is a 6 AP Collodi now?

[Patzer]

Well, as long as you are willing to pay 22ss for Hannah and Lazylaz... But its pretty darn cool ^^!

 

4 marionettes 12

Laz&Hannah 22

Brutal Effigy 4

Arcane Effigy 4

Collodi, some upgrades 3 (47)

Cache: 6.

9 models. It could definitely work! Hannah and Laz its quite a cool and fluffy combo too.

[EntrepeNinja]

Seems like its more a "bag of props" style crew than a "fated" kind of crew, which is fine- Let the brutal and the arcane make Collodi's attacks rad, then have him pull strings six times? Not bad. Letting him steal focus, as well as getting a plus flip from Lazarus hitting him with my will? That could get crazy. If he snagged a focus from each of the marionettes... With CA7 and a potential       to attack and a       to damage? 

 

(Atk- + from my will, double plus from double focus)

(Dmg- + from Pull String's inherent plus flip, double plus from focus...)

 

Could be good. I mean, you could only get it that good twice, and you'd need all your maionettes in position, and taking double focus actions, so. Regardless. That's a lot of slows and potentially stolen AP. If you could reliably give slow to three enemies and take the remaining one AP from each of those enemies as well... That's a hell of a wrench.

 

ENinja

[asrian]

I tried out Collodi + Lazarus + Hannah tonight versus VanillaDiceMark's Jack Daw crew. I'm used to playing Fated, so kept forgetting to go Focus & Defensive with my guys, but even with that aside I was able to Turn one take Sue down to 1 wound, give him slow, and give him the condition to take his AP next activation (next turn), and do the same to Ama No Zako, taking it down to 4 wounds, slow, Stolen AP, and causing Ama No Zako to hit a Nurse for 3 damage. This basically forced him to heal/paralyze both models with the nurse to full heal them and heavily messed up his plans. Turn 2 was much the same. 

Overall, it worked extremely well and was a surprise to both of us. I basically sent Collodi WAY ahead of everyone else then just used his 0 AP pushes and triggers to play peek-a-boo around a corner for most of the game, making him a pain in Mark's rear the entire time. Also, I tended to activate Collodi early for 4 AP with the fast, heal up from Brutal, then use Lazarus and Hannah to give him AP later in the turn to either help out where it was needed by having him either Attack, move, or My Will other guys to do what was needed.

The game still ended 7 to 8 to Collodi, so wasn't a shut out, but it was a completely different feel to my normal Fated style of play. I will definitely have to try it again, and maybe next time to remember to use more Focuses and Defenses.

[zFiend]

That's why you have no friends asrian. Only enemies and at best people who tolerate you in small doses.

[cursingbulldog]

That's exactly why I like props so much, you just feel like your in control of the game the whole time. If you toss in lelu and Lilitu you can even get 4 focused attacks before your opponents second activation and really mess with their plans.

[Kalkris]

Re: Collodi's Bag O' Props + Laz + Hannah, and their Effigy Arsenal: I think Hodgepodge has more staying power than Arcane for a few good reasons:

a ) Hodgepodge allows for soulstones to be gained off of killing a model, at the cost of a card in hand. This makes Brutal a staple, because you draw, then pitch for a stone if necessary (this idea is sort of a rip from Leveticus and his whole interaction with ol' Podgy - kill a model - tally sheet - Hodgepodge for a stone).

b ) The Fog helps against all the shooters who don't have benefits against cover. Against "Da Ball," that's how one dismantles said "Da Ball," so The Fog really protects against it.

 

Also, I think that giving Collodi Fast each of his activations - even if it won't pass over to his other dudes and even if it ends up netting damage by the end of the activation(s, with accomplice onto, say, Lazarus) - is helpful because every super-relevant thing that can be done with Collodi - be it Extra Thread, Pull The Strings, or My Will - has impact for your crew or against theirs. That's why I like Strum the Threads in this case.

 

Now, a question to you:

 

If I run a standard list for Collodi/Laz/Hannah (which for me is them, 4 Marionettes, Brutal, Podgy, and 4 stones for a full pool), I am left with 1 stone extra.

 

Who am I best suited to give Pact to: Lazarus, or Hannah? Because I figure giving one (if not both, but I've only 1 extra stone for use) of them the ability to cheat a BJ is pivotal to the success of this crew build. Since Hannah is doing more heavy cardwork, I think it's her to be my choice, but I want a second opinion to be sure.

 

~Lil Kalki

[asrian]

 

Now, a question to you:

 

If I run a standard list for Collodi/Laz/Hannah (which for me is them, 4 Marionettes, Brutal, Podgy, and 4 stones for a full pool), I am left with 1 stone extra.

 

Who am I best suited to give Pact to: Lazarus, or Hannah? Because I figure giving one (if not both, but I've only 1 extra stone for use) of them the ability to cheat a BJ is pivotal to the success of this crew build. Since Hannah is doing more heavy cardwork, I think it's her to be my choice, but I want a second opinion to be sure.

 

~Lil Kalki

You could always give Fears Given Form to Hannah (3" melee range and she likes to be in combat anyway as her only attack is a Melee) or you could give Retribution's Eye (Ignore Armor, Enforcer Only upgrade) to Lazarus as that would make all of his shots/blasts be a very potential threat to anyone who had armor.

[Kalkris]

You could always give Fears Given Form to Hannah (3" melee range and she likes to be in combat anyway as her only attack is a Melee) or you could give Retribution's Eye (Ignore Armor, Enforcer Only upgrade) to Lazarus as that would make all of his shots/blasts be a very potential threat to anyone who had armor.

See, while I like both of those options, I feel a bit uneasy giving an upgrade to Lazarus (as Laz is the middleman to the primary interaction - without Laz, Hannah cannot use My Will on Collodi), and I think going for a balanced upgrade might be better than strict defense such as FGF.

 

And yeah, the more I think about it, the less I think I should give Laz the Pact, and instead opt to hand it to Hannah. The thing is that Hannah will most definitely have the most card-straining job of the three models in question, needing first to Make a New Entry from Assimilate, and then Assimilate My Will. While Collodi is the model flipping at the end of that most of the time (and yes, sometimes it'll Lazarus in second), and while he is using 2 (more if focused) cards on the Attack flip, and a variant amount on damage (whereas Hannah uses the second most - Laz is in third here), Hannah has the slot open for this upgrade and needs it almost as badly, while Collodi doesn't have the spot open, if he has Bag Of Props/Fated, Strum the Threads, and Breathe Life.

 

So in writing this a few more questions arise from me:

 

1) Bag Of Props or Fated for Collodi in this getup? BoP is good because I can gain Focus (and/or Defensive) like crazy as well as summon up Effigies as needed, but with Fated I can make all of my Marionettes and such gain Brutal's or Hodgepodge's bonus(es). I may need to go with BoP here because having my Marionettes spam Focus and Defensive as necessary might be a good call in emergencies.

 

2) Pact or Fears Given Form for Hannah? If I am to draw into the Black Joker with relative ease at some point in the game, I feel that Pact shall have been a wasted option unless facing against something like a discard effect. However, it provides security (for Hannah, at least) until that time comes. FGF, on the other hand, is a good degree of defense. If I could stick it on an enforcer like Lazarus, I would do that, but as I cannot, if I take FGF I will feel I'd need to clump him close by to Hannah, the recipient.

 

I mean, I suppose I am answering my own questions here, but I want to hear more about this. Not a huge fan of Retribution's Eye, though - it gives Armor penetration, but unless I know I am facing off against Arcanists or perhaps Guild (or anticipating Iron Leve, but that's under the pretense that I know already and that isn't always assured), it seems like a bad call in comparison. I also don't like one-shot upgrades where they have to be discarded at some point for full effect.

 

Thank you, Asrian! Keep 'em coming!

 

~Lil Kalki

[asrian]

Honestly, with a 1 in 54 chance of a given model flipping the black joker (if casting twice with hannah, once to Make an Entry, Once for the Assimilate you Entry'ed) then that goes up to 2 in 27 not counting cards in hand, discarded, etc etc. Still, it's not the worst of odds to worry about. And if it does happen, so what? You're still giving your Master 5 AP with just Fast + Laz alone. The 6th is icing on the cake. I much prefer the offense of FGF (but watch out as it effects Friend & Foe) or the Retribution's Eye. Especially as R.E. can be discarded to allow one turn of No Armor + No Defense triggers which is sometimes needed).

As for Fated (crew enhancement) vs Bag of Props (Master enhancement), if I'm taking Hannah + Laz to hand Collodi extra AP then I'm going Bag of Props. Otherwise, I'd rather drop one or both of them if going for Fated and add in a couple Stitched or Illuminated or something else that will gain more benefit from the bonuses Collodi is handing out to his minions and puppets vs 2 more AP and 23pts spent for 2 models (11 each +1SS left over for the upgrade). Hell, just dropping Hannah and the upgrade gives you 12SS which means 2 Stitched, or an Illuminated and an Effigy, or whatever else you might want that Collodi can enhance, use My Will on, or otherwise help you accomplish schemes/strats while still allowing you to retain Laz for some ranged firepower + an extra AP for Collodi.


Overall though, these are just my opinions and play styles. I highly encourage you to try the models you want out (either on the table or vassal) and play a few games with them. See how they work for you. What doesn't work (on the table, or theory crafting) for me might work wonderful for you. Sometimes you just don't know until you see it in motion.

[zFiend]

And if it does happen, so what? You're still giving your Master 5 AP with just Fast + Laz alone. The 6th is icing on the cake.

 

Seriously you guys? We are talking about a 5 AP master here and wondering how to ensure the 6th with an upgrade on another model. I'm with Asrian here.  

[asrian]

Seriously you guys? We are talking about a 5 AP master here and wondering how to ensure the 6th with an upgrade on another model. I'm with Asrian here.

Now see what you've done, Kalkris? You've got zFiend siding with me. *Shudders* It'll take a river of bleach to wash the filth off now.   

[cursingbulldog]

As for pact I always put it on collodi with bag of props. As he is the one using the all the focus he will be flipping the most cards and has to most to loose from a failed horror check, you waste not only the rest of his activation but also all the actions you spent putting focus up.

Looking at his actions you are looking at 4 focus 1 attacks for 8 cards, with on average a plus flip on damage for another 8 cards, to a best case 4 focus 2, 2 focus 2 with extra plus, and 6 4 card damage flips that's 44 cards with out terrifying or manipulative checks. Putting the average somewhere near the middle you are looking at 1 model flipping roughly half the deck every turn.