Collodi

[zFiend]

Okay so what are people's feelings on Collodi?

 

I didn't pay that much attention to Collodi in the beta as he looked pretty dull at the beginning, now for the first time we were trying out Vassal with a friend of mine and I decided to give Collodi a try. At the first glance of his cards he just seemed like a Master I am truly going to enjoy playing. Now I have no idea what to do and what to hire with Collodi. I will be definetly buying Collodi but I think I'm gonna wait how he's looking in 2E before deciding on the purchase, metal or plastic. 

 

I think I went with

 

Collodi: Fated, Breathe Life, Strum the threads

Vasilisa

Insidious Madness

Coryphee

Shadow Effigy

2x Wicked Doll 

4x Marionette

 

We are still in the middle of the game on Vassal, I think we are saved in turn 3 beginning. What do you hire with Collodi? How do you play him? 

[Mister Shine]

My go-to with Fated is Brutal, sometimes Carrion so that everyone heals up from Strum, Also very much like taking a Beckoner. Bring people to the death ball, dont try to bring the Death Ball to them

[ehren37]

Out of curiosity, why a Beckoner over Lilitu? at least in the last beta, Lilitu seemed to have a higher CA on her lure, and is more durable (2 more DF, regen). Just for the trigger to push the beckoner?

 

I wasn't terribly sold on Vasilisa myself. Sure she's fast, but at 9 points you could get 2 gupps to run objectives and pocket the stone. She's missing the suit on Obey, and its a mask, which the crew wants a lot of. Her melee attack's triggers are unreliable and let the opponent decide whether or not to deal themselves damage to avoid the effect, meaning they are worse than straight up control or damage. Yeah her Twist gives Collodi an extra action and can drag him around for 2 more, but that's a lot of points to sink into making him a bit better (and there was a lot of talk about limiting her actions to non-master). 

[Myth]

Out of curiosity, why a Beckoner over Lilitu? at least in the last beta, Lilitu seemed to have a higher CA on her lure, and is more durable (2 more DF, regen). Just for the trigger to push the beckoner?

 

I'm guessing because the Beckoner is a Minion, which means it can benefit from more of Collodi's buffs - and can be a target for Personal Puppet. (And being able to cast Lure whenever Collodi gets damaged can be very handy for messing with the enemy plans.)

[ehren37]

Aha, figured there was something I missed. Thanks!

[Mister Shine]

Yeah, I run an all puppet/minion crew so I never get backed too far into a corner on that front. Also I just dont like the twins. But being able to Lure twice, then have collodi puppet the beckoner with a plus for more lures will generally get the whatever you want dead to you

 

Looking into puppet wars Ill probably wind up using the cassandra puppetwhenever that comes out.

[ehren37]

Ugh, so Vasilisa's twist can't target Collodi anymore (changed to non-leader). IMO, that's the nail in the coffin for this model. 9 points is a lot for an unimpressive melee attack, a non-suited obey and not much else. I can get 2 gupps/tots for fast scheme runners for 1 stone less, and have activation control.

[Myth]

On the one hand, I think it is probably a good thing not to have a (0) that gives a free attack to your Master, so this change was probably a wise move.

 

Unfortunately, as you note, it was probably the biggest thing Vasilisa had going for her, so changing it at the last moment without any other adjustments... leaves her in a pretty bad place for her final release. 9 SS for a 6 Wd model - whose primary function is to move forward and get near the enemy - is a pretty big risk. Df 7 is nice, but only goes so far, and without the access to Armor that she had earlier in the beta, I'm going to have a hard time thinking up reasons to bring her to the table.

[Arkion]

I have to disagree about Vasalisa.

 

Vasilisa can use soulstones to get the exact suit she needs, both for Obey and her melee attack. She also has Collodi's Df trigger, allowing her to push 3" after an attack. Yes, she's fragile, but she brings so much to the table! And Leveticus can hire her with his Pariah of Iron upgrade.

 

I guess I'm not saying anything new - I just see her stats as wealth instead of poverty.

 

If I were playing at 50 stones, my core might look like this:

 

Collodi

 +Breathe Life [1]

 +Fears Given Form [1]

Marionette X 3 [9]

Vasilisa [9]

 +Fears Given Form [1]

Wicked Doll [4]

Wicked Doll [4]

Wicked Doll [4]

Widow Weaver [8]

 

Leaving you 9 stones to play around with and tailor your list to the scenario and opponent. The Widow Weaver isn't strictly necessary either; you might want to bring in a Mature Nephalem or something like that. I just think it's a sweet model, honestly.

 

And I'm sure Nexus of Power has application here, somewhere, too.

[zFiend]

I think I am missing something on Vasilisa as well, she has some nice triggers and she has obey, but she is also very consumptive on resources. As you either need the exact cards or the need to use soulstones to get the right suits. 6 wounds is also pretty easily done away with. 

[ehren37]

I have to disagree about Vasalisa.

 

Vasilisa can use soulstones to get the exact suit she needs, both for Obey and her melee attack. She also has Collodi's Df trigger, allowing her to push 3" after an attack. Yes, she's fragile, but she brings so much to the table! And Leveticus can hire her with his Pariah of Iron upgrade.

 

I guess I'm not saying anything new - I just see her stats as wealth instead of poverty.

 

 

 

Her melee attack is pretty unimpressive for a 9 stone model with that as their only damage option. The triggers are worse than just a better damage track OR control, since the opponent gets to pick what they want, so its always the weakest. At most it adds 3 if the opponent decides to take the penalty. The effects average out to 2 more damage, but again, at the opponents call. It ends up being roughly the equivalent of 1/2/4 and critical hit or something. Not particularly great and if you're spending stones on them, its throwing good stones after bad.

 

It also puts her in melee, which as 6 wound model, she does NOT need to be close to the enemy.

 

Am I missing any synergy on taking her with Levi?

[Myth]

Also, I've never been particularly convinced by the argument that "This 9 SS model is worthwhile, since it gives you the priviledge of burning even more resources just to makes its actions functional."

 

I think there are definitely times where she can shine, sure. And her upgrade is really quite awesome. But it also makes her even more of an investment, and that continues to be the issue for me. Her big use is all about, effectively, giving extra AP to the rest of your crew. And that is certainly cool - but you really need the right targets for her to move/command, or it feels like a very inefficient return on your investment. When you could probably get more AP just by spending the points on a model that is capable in its own right.

[Mister Shine]

Well, you'll hardly find a better meethod of alpha strike in 2e. Whether its worth it or not is debatable.

 

I still think that Lips and Feet should have been switched. But the Obey IS pretty damn useful. I think I'll probably wind up using her in a Zoraida crew though, to bring her Voodoo Doll along while keeping up with Raven

[ehren37]

Well, you'll hardly find a better meethod of alpha strike in 2e. Whether its worth it or not is debatable.

 

I still think that Lips and Feet should have been switched. But the Obey IS pretty damn useful. I think I'll probably wind up using her in a Zoraida crew though, to bring her Voodoo Doll along while keeping up with Raven

Can you explain the alpha potential? I mean, I don't see anything like Tara flinging a desloation engine in your face on turn 1, or lillith, nekima, dopp, etc. at most, its a mediocre melee attack. 

 

Honestly she seems a complete waste of points. 2 4 soulstone objective grabbers (gupps/tots) seem way better.

[zFiend]

If you upgrade Vasilisa she comes really close to the cost of Mature Neph or Teddy. And I am having a hard time to justify myself why Vasilisa, say over a Teddy or a Mature. You don't need to obey something that's locked down/dead. If you need to move something up it's walk Teddy has it as a trigger and you get a Teddy to the face as well.

[Mister Shine]

Threw a "here's how I try to use Vasilisa" in my big Collodi post. Basically though its a "I can bring a Coryphee 32" up the board and if schemes are correct that can get me a hell of a lot of VP"

[Myth]

Can you explain the alpha potential? I mean, I don't see anything like Tara flinging a desloation engine in your face on turn 1, or lillith, nekima, dopp, etc. at most, its a mediocre melee attack. 

 

Honestly she seems a complete waste of points. 2 4 soulstone objective grabbers (gupps/tots) seem way better.

 

With her upgrade, and with Strum the Threads in the picture, she can Walk 3 times and bring another Puppet with her. And then, as a (0), give that Puppet 1 AP. Which I think is absolutely the most effective use of her, and there are indeed lists you can build around that idea. The problem is that there really aren't any scary Puppets to use in an Alpha strike - the Coryphee is your best bet, and is an excellent model for 7 SS, but doesn't have the fear factor of most genuine big hitters out there. And spending 18 SS for the combo is a pretty big investment. And 18 SS for 10 Wds of models is putting quite a few eggs in some very fragile baskets.

[thebarbalag]

Had my first game with Collodi (this edition) last night. Ran Bag of Props, Strum the Threads, and Threads of Fate, 4 Marionettes, 3 Dolls, Brutal, Arcane, and Hodgepodge, and the Widow with Handbag.

 

I took Strum, because as a 1.5 Collodi player, I felt like I wanted him to play like he did way back when...this was a waste of stones, at least in my game. Bag of Props seems to make Collodi a ridiculous beast. Ample Focus, and Defensive just sitting there on a few dolls if an attack came my way (never did), he was able to hand out "A New Thread" and Slow sufficiently to steal enough AP to keep my opponent from doing, really, anything he wanted to, most importantly, drop markers. Arcane's buff was the only one that really came into play, handing out a decent amount of burning, or at least, hand stripping. I did manage to summon Carrion on turn three, only to get him and Arcane nuked.

 

The Widow was phenomenal, killed the Wendigo and a Hoarcat Pride with the tiniest bit of assistance from a Wicked Doll (who seem to be fantastic), and summoning Teddy...who promptly got destroyed before activating by an Ice Golem (Red Joker on --flip for damage on the first swing).

 

I've been playing more elite crews, so playing a crew that can out-activate like mad was a new experience. I picked up a blister of Coryphee last night, and I'm excited to try out Vasilisa eventually, if she has the same "meh on paper/great on the table" feeling that the Wicked Dolls and Widow Weaver have, she should be interesting.

[Mister Shine]

Fated and Strum are BEST FRIENDS.

 

Strum without it is kinda meh if you didnt bring something else to heal everyone.

[TimH]

I feel like I'm missing something here.

Why does fated work well with strum? If Collodi takes the 2 damage to give himself fast it doesn't transfer to the rest of the crew. He can only transfer a condition gained from an action. Is there something really obvious I'm missing here?

[Myth]

I'm assuming its simply setting up a big round of attacks. Collodi uses Focus and shares it with the little guys. An Effigy buffs him so that all their attacks do Burning or give Healing or something. Then they all go Fast and unleash a ton of attacks - none of which are doing a ton of damage, but with the sheer quantity meaning a good number get through, especially with the Focus to help land some boosted hits.

[Mister Shine]

Its the healing. You give your crew the Healing bonus from Brutal (my preference), Lucky or Carrion so when they take their 2 wounds to get fast they then have 3 chances to heal back up

[zFiend]

Collodi seems to be a really complex master to understand and to master so to speak. He has so many abilities, combos and such. But there is something really intriguing about that, when you learn to start pulling them strings.