Pigapult

[chris_havoc]

Hi all. There's a bit of debate about the Pigapult at our local game store. How does the ignoring of LoS and Cover work? For instance, can it sit in a building with a roof and shoot things outside that building or if vice versa if the target were in a building? Or does the Pigapult need to be able to draw an unobstructed line from itself to the target? So a roof would cause it not to be able to target? Where as outside a building it could shoot out the building but not into it, yes?

[Csonti]

The Pigapult can shoot out of and into any building or whatever else. The only restriction is the range of the attack in this case. (And yes, that doesn't make much sense but we are talking about a game where you sometimes need to sacrifice logic on the altar of easy to learn, compact rules.)

Sidenote: enclosed terrain trait only comes into play during the movement of flying models.

[Dracomax]

Honestly, I'm not sure that ruling is good for the game. Creating a model that can be effectively untargetable for 99% of the other models (I think Lilith and maybe one or two other masters—plus any other model with the same ability to ignore LOS/cover—could attack through the wall) in the game seems like a terrible idea, and I hope it gets eratta'd. I'd say the same about Austringers, which have similar targeting restrictions.

[chris_havoc]

Oh ok... I would have thought that the fact that the roof is impassable and enclosed that the nature of those two things would prevent this. But reading up a bit it appears you are right. This is quite silly though and seems counter to the generally intuitive rules of the game. It's not often that logic or sense are suspended in Malifaux rules really.

[Squirrelfreak]

I would rule if you can't get to the model then you can't place it into something like a building. You need to be a bit fair against your opponent as well.

[Jonasty]

Had this come up in a game last week. Moved into a building for some protection from my opponent's crew and it was completely negated because he just launched stuffed piglets and gremlins in the thing with the Pigapult. It is a bit of a pain that could do with some clarification/errata. (It especially sucked because he brought along Killjoy who was only too happy to bust out of the dead piglet on Turn 1 practically in my deployment zone.)

[chris_havoc]

Yeah I think a house ruling is possibly required...

[zFiend]

I would rule if you can't get to the model then you can't place it into something like a building. You need to be a bit fair against your opponent as well.

I think this is the essence. Propably houserule it so that you can't shoot through roofs and walls. If you put the 'Pult inside a building you are inside a building but no shooting from there.

[Csonti]

I always think about house rules as a way of starting to deconstruct a system. I mean, yes this is indeed illogical but so is the fact that a 10 Wd model does everything with the same efficiency when he is down to 1 Wd, or the case where you shoot into melee and can hit a model 2" to the target but at the other side of a 10" tall wall. And I could cite dozens of these. A game system is full of abstractions and simplifications. Some of them are just more irritating to the mind than the others.

But of course everybody is entitled to play the game the way he likes the most.

[Jonasty]

I think the big thing is just making sure you're aware of the rules and interactions. I was annoyed with the Pigapult shooting into the building but that was only because I attempted to utilize it based on a real world expectation of "I'll hide in here to be safe." Had I realized how the rules are written and what that means I'd have adjust my tactics accordingly and for sure I won't be making the same mistake twice.

As people have said, games are an abstraction to try to account for how things should work. It's just harder in this instance because it's very easy to envision how you expect this to work in the real world so it's all the more shocking when you can bypass it via the mechanics. But I don't know as it's inherently broken.

[hypoking]

Gravity kills ghosts. Catapults shoot through walls. Flying models move the same vertical distance as everyone else. Game has it's share of fun quirks. Part of the charm.

[Brewmaster]

Ultimately, it is a discussion between you and your opponent on how the terrain works. Rules as written, there's no mechanical thing stopping the pigapult, but I would accept a common sense ruling that terrain with the enclosed trait could.

And Jonasty, forgive me if I'm misreading, but how did your opponent pigapult Killjoy into nearly your deploy zone?

[Malal]

You could put reactivate on a stuffed pig, chuck it down field with the 'pult, activate the stuffed pig (not paralyzed, just lost reactivate) and blow it up and out pops Killjoy

[Jonasty]

And Jonasty, forgive me if I'm misreading, but how did your opponent pigapult Killjoy into nearly your deploy zone?

Sorry for the confusion, didn't launch actual Killjoy himself. He did the Pigapult's Launch'n action to drop a stuffed piglet inside a building where some of my crew including master were hiding (me thinking the roof made them safe was the mistake). He then shot the stuffed piglet with rami through a door he had LOS through, making sure to kill it to trigger the explosion flip and getting a Killjoy to pop out of it on Turn 1 (maybe Turn 2, can't remember now).

It was "nearly" in my deployment as we had standard deploy, pigapult setup exactly at 6" and then 24" launch of piglet, and then Killjoy's 50mm BSB placement with the dying piglet.

It's a cool tactic that took me by surprise but it's easy enough to plan for when you know it's coming, which is telegraphed by the fact that a gremlin player is hiring killjoy and a pigapult. :slap:

[Simian]

Pigs fly, windows, doors etc don't stop them. works for me.