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The Future of Rankings - Discussion Thread


Joel

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I think at the stage we are at right now we shouldn't increase the number for max points by too much as I think this could impact negatively on areas that can only run small events. I'd say a slight change for now, let 2nd edition run for year first and see how the scene grows in that year and then make further adjustments to the rankings system. I also would like to say 4 events, this may start to make people not want to travel to non-ranked events though as not everyone can go to loads of tournaments each year and they may be a very good player but never stand a chance to get to the top of the rankings due to the restrictions.

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I'm concerned the scene hasn't grown quite enough for this change, especially in the South, I also reckon it may take its toll on no ranked events.

I think a change maybe required though in the near future for sure, was having a look at warmachine, and noticed they get more than 100 points for some events how does that work?

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Have any of the Scottish contingent come forward with their thoughts yet?

I to am still not convinced a change now is required.

What you don't want to happen is all those smaller events losing out on players attending and then not growing.

Also, there is still a good 41 point spread for the top 1o players and 85 points for the top 20, so I can't see a need for a change on that front either.

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Just wanted to pick up on the maximum level discussion currently happening on twitter. There are no so many of us on there I can't fit cogent thoughts into the 90 odd characters left.

 

The reason the number of points awarded vary dependant on event size is to protect the integrity of the system.  The maximum points level should be set at a level which to a certain extent guarantees a high enough standard of competition. The bigger the event the tougher it should be to win.

 

Without this fail safe I could play a tournament a month against seven random tramps. I'd win each week and earn maximum points.  This is why the number of entrants should be set high enough that the event will need to be drawing players from beyond the immediate area and be in effect a national / regional event to qualify.  It's in effect a test to make sure that the event is quorate.

 

The significant majority of events should not attract the maximum score. Maybe four a year is about the right level IMO.

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I dont disagree but i think a jump of 50%, which is what most people seem to be talking about, is a big leap

 

I'd argue the level has been too low for a while before M2e.  Either way 5/8* M2e events held to date have been over twenty players. The max point threshold should be more like 20%, a cut off around 28 would probably still see us exceeding that level.

 

*I'm excluding the Hardcore side event at the Scottish GT.

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It does feel a bit like we're trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

 

I seem to remember hearing a lot of "the scene isn't ready yet" arguments when we implemented rankings the first time.

 

There's never going to be a perfect time to implement this. I think now is the right time to be optimistic about the scene and make some changes. 

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OK, I completely understand the reasoning in increasing the number of players at events for them to score max points, can someone outline the case for increasing the number of scoring events to 4?

And just to annoy everyone, should a minimum ss size be introduced to qualify an event to be ranked? Just thinking what's stopping me organising a 10 player, 15 ss event running from 7-10pm one evening that nobody in their right mind would attend from outside the local area just to get a 4th scoring event (which would gain 80pts if I won, I think) and jump me above anyone who only has 3 scoring events on the table

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And just to annoy everyone, should a minimum ss size be introduced to qualify an event to be ranked? Just thinking what's stopping me organising a 10 player, 15 ss event running from 7-10pm one evening that nobody in their right mind would attend from outside the local area just to get a 4th scoring event (which would gain 80pts if I won, I think) and jump me above anyone who only has 3 scoring events on the table

 

Just to address this part.  Other systems apply these sorts of restrictions.  The difficulty becomes rigedly enforcing what an 'event' is. The more rules you create the more likely you are someones well meaning event will fall foul of them.

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Good post Mike. Agreed :D

 

Love the post, but think it's not looking at the future-proofing of the scene.

 

Going to 4 events may mean that those players interested in rankings positions may well make the decision to attend more events.  This will grow events as more players attend, leading to further congestion.

 

right now, the problem isn't huge - but I'm thinking about the problems coming down the path.  Right now seems a good opportunity, as wave 2 comes in and basically M2E goes "fully operational", to sort this out before things come to a head.

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Some interesting analysis. The main reason why I think 4 or 5 game events are different to 3 game ones is nothing to do with who wins. It's the next few positions that themselves still offer a decent amount of points for those seeking to advance up the rankings. If you lose game 3 to the overall winner in a 3 game tournament, chances are that you will drop significantly down the table. In a 4 or 5 game tournament, you still have a decent chance to climb back up near the top. I went to a 3 game tournament last year and was on table 1 in the last game. It was a draw and I dropped to 6th place. With another game, I felt I would have had a good chance to get back into the podium places. As someone who usually only attends a limited number of events a year, I feel this is significant.

 

For the time being, I am withdrawing from the tournament scene for personal reasons. I still think the Rankings should change to make them more future proof. When and if I return though, I will adapt to whatever has been decided.

 

Martin

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Sorry to hear that we'll not be seeing you for a while - hope everything goes OK and that you won't be gone too long!

 

This. You'll be missed mate. :(

 

Would people consider a 2 day tournament that had a gap between day 1 and day 2?  Maybe even a month or so?

 

If playrs can't make two consecutive days do we really think making the days non-consecutive will help?

 

I suspect you'll find less take up than for a number two day, plus a level of drop outs at the bottom of the table.

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