Returning Gremlin Player - 2E list suggestions

[Last Griffon]

So, I'm returning to Malifaux after a bit and have yet to play 2nd edition. I picked up the gremlin cards and it looks like some pretty major changes to how many of my old tactics would work. Looking for suggestions on putting together starting a warband for 50 SS.

My current painted gremlins are:

Bayou Gremlins (3)

Young LaCroix (3)

Ophilia

Somer

Francois

Pere

Rami

Raphael

Slop Haulers (2)

Giant Mosquito (3)

Owned but either not built or not painted:

Taxidermist

Slop hauler

Stuffed Piglets (3)

Lenny

I also have some Confrontation ninja goblins that I can proxy in and conversions/sculpting is very much in my skill set for models that are not out yet, but I'd probably want to limit it to 3 or so serious conversions.

I used to run Somer and Ophelia with the mosquito/"git yer bro" combo and a couple of LaCroix shooter support members. Now... not sure what to do with Somer.

I'm figuring to start with:

Ophelia

Francois

Rami

Young LaCroix (3)

I love the idea of the Brewmaster and think that making a custom Whiskey Golem sounds likea good time, but don't have a good feel for the build/combos.

Any thoughts/suggestions?

[DavicusPrime]

I've only just played my first M2E game with Gremlins so I'm in a similar boat, only my boat is smaller. I Only have the contents of the Lacroix box, and a blister each of Young Lacroix and Slop Haulers. So for me there isn't much thinking required to build a 50 stone list. Use them all, add an assortment of Upgrades and call it good.

Random crew selection thought: DO NOT spend your starting SS on weapon upgrades for Ophelia as she and the young can generate them consistently through out the game.

Ophelia and the young were kind of a package deal. The Youths provided Big O her first assortment of weapons and otherwise moved with her the first turn. After that they would occasionally use her weapons to soften up things, but my experience with her was short as Lilith used her movement tricks to yank her into melee with herself and all but assassinated her second turn. After that the young became Rami's shootin buddies.

The slop haulers work exactly the same as I remember them except the feed the piggies isn't a (Full) Action like it used to be, so you can use reckless to get where your buddies are to set off the healing. Kind of a nice usefulness bump. And as minions, they can complete objectives when their healing capabilities aren't in need.

Rami needs to spend AP focusing to bring his rifle into full effect and can't ignore terrain anymore when he moves. But his ability to heal himself due to his personal stash of hooch made reckless not such a big risk.

Francois seems a bit more potent than before and is probably the best melee model out of the Kin. I was able to keep the opposing henchman (Barbaros) tied up while the rest of my crew grabbed objectives.

Raphael really was fun to use. His fueled by panic ability was great fun for being able to blow away a terror tot and Lilith. He died in the act, killing Lilith (dumb luck is a cruel mistress), but being able to toss out 3 AP worth of shooting without taking damage for getting the extra AP made that possible.

Didn't get to use Pere though (we actually played a 35ss game so he and one of the Haulers got left behind).

My biggest problem was not knowing what upgrades to pick. Pretty much all the Kin models are Enforcers so you can spread them around. I just haven't figured out what works well with whom. The slop haulers make the Quality Mash Liquor upgrade redundant. The one that gives you the ability to remove a condition was the only one that really made sense.

-DavicusPrime

[Dumb Luck]

I'd get Lenny built and painted as soon as possible. He just does so much for the LaCroix, be it handing out rams to auto trigger Dumb Luck (and therefore, negate the LaCroix's average Sh), reduce damage (very handy when combed with Raphael - remember, armour now reduces the damage you deal to yourself too) or positioning models to grab objectives/drop on unsuspecting foes.

Toss can be useful when combined with Gremlin See.

[rgarbonzo]

Dirty Cheater is great on Raph (and Francois for the Loose Trigger) as he can heal himself back up when falling to Hard to Kill if he can survive until his activation. Leeny allows some movement shenanigans and the auto Dumb Luck aura is great especially combined with Ophelia and her Rough Rider pistols. I have been running Ophelia and Rami without her Young'uns, instead getting the Student of Conflict to get Rami fast and allow him to make 2 focused shots per turn.

[Omenbringer]

For Som'er I would go with a Summon Engine as he is really good with it. Something along the lines of:

Gremlins Crew - 50 - Scrap

Somer Teeth Jones -- 7 Pool

+Family Tree [2]

• Skeeter X 2 [4]
  
• Bayou Gremlin [3]
  
• Bayou Gremlin [3]
  
• Bayou Gremlin [3]
  
• Lenny [9]
  +I'll Love it and Pet it... [1]
  
• Rami LaCroix [7]
  
• Slop Hauler [5]
  

This leaves 13 SS to choose more models/upgrades with (I would take a good look at Encouragement for further buffing the crew). You will also want some extra Bayou Gremlin's along with a few Piglets to add to what you already have. I might also look at picking up a Pigapult as well. It is a very good piece for the Gremlin's especially with Lenny consistently feeding it piglet ammunition.

[Darguth]

For Som'er I would go with a Summon Engine as he is really good with it. Something along the lines of:

Gremlins Crew - 50 - Scrap

Somer Teeth Jones -- 7 Pool

+Family Tree [2]

• Skeeter X 2 [4]

• Bayou Gremlin [3]

• Bayou Gremlin [3]

• Bayou Gremlin [3]

• Lenny [9]

  +I'll Love it and Pet it... [1]

• Rami LaCroix [7]

• Slop Hauler [5]

This leaves 13 SS to choose more models/upgrades with (I would take a good look at Encouragement for further buffing the crew). You will also want some extra Bayou Gremlin's along with a few Piglets to add to what you already have. I might also look at picking up a Pigapult as well. It is a very good piece for the Gremlin's especially with Lenny consistently feeding it piglet ammunition.

[Omenbringer]

Out of the currently-finished Wave 1 M2E models I think Lenny is an absolute must-have. You don't *have* to bring him, but he's a fantastic option to have around.

I cant agree more, he is a great supplement to Som'er's summon engine. Target a Bayou Gremlin and relent the attack and it shouldn't be difficult to summon a Piglet, draw two Control Cards and Drop a Corpse Counter. Add the Pigapult for an even better target (even if you happen to flip three severe's on the relented attack it will only suffer 1 damage) that really benefit's from the summon (healing that 1 Wound and increasing accuracy, range and damage potential). A bit expensive but usually worth the cost.

Francois is probably one of our best raw damage dealers, so he's great in the crew as a more elite threat.

I really like Francois leading the charge so to speak in my Som'er crews. Add the Show Off upgrade for some more fun with those summoned Bayou Gremlins.

I had moderate success running Pigs ahead of my summoning engine during Wave 1 beta testing, taking a Hog Whisperer, War Pig, and some Piglets. And that was before Somer had access to his Pig Feed upgrade. So if you like Pigs, I think they're definitely viable with him.

Just remember that the Pigs received some major changes in this edition so are a lot more difficult to control.

I'd certainly agree with Omenbringer though that if you want to run Somer you're going to need a lot more than 3x Bayou Gremlins available to you. I own 8 and have routinely needed more than that.

8-9 (2 blisters plus the Pigpult Bayou Gremlin) is about the minimum I would recommend along with 4-7 piglets (1-2 Blisters plus the Hog Whisperer piglet). About the most I have ever needed was 15 though.

[DavicusPrime]

8-9 (2 blisters plus the Pigpult Bayou Gremlin) is about the minimum I would recommend along with 4-7 piglets (1-2 Blisters plus the Hog Whisperer piglet). About the most I have ever needed was 15 though.

This is why I've held off on picking up Somer. I'm going to need a second job to afford my new gremlin addiction.

-DavicusPrime

[Omenbringer]

This is why I've held off on picking up Somer. I'm going to need a second job to afford my new gremlin addiction.

-DavicusPrime

You should be able to find the metal models discounted fairly soon. They aren't very difficult to convert either (except perhaps the spy glass Bayou Gremlin).

[Darguth]

Just remember that the Pigs received some major changes in this edition so are a lot more difficult

True, though I don't think you really *need* that much control with them. Bring a Hog Whisperer to keep them under wraps on turn 1-2 and by end of Turn 2/early Turn 3 they should all be embedded in your opponent's grill slowing them down. That'll help you pump out a lot of Bayou Gremlin AP to swamp the board all relatively uncontested.

Another option with Wave 2 models (still being tested) would be to bring Sammy with the Pig Feed upgrade on her. That'll give you the Pork Whisper'n aura you want, a great Pig-supporting action, plus Sammy is super-useful with just her base card.

[Omenbringer]

That is definitely a viable use however if taking the Hog Whisperer I generally prefer to have the pigs close to get the benefit of The Crispiest of Bacon (especially for some late game scoring via the Truffle Shuffle). This can be even more viable with the Stuffed Piglets. Also if just planning to use them for disruption I think the Wild Boar will be a better option.

[Darguth]

Also if just planning to use them for disruption I think the Wild Boar will be a better option.

Probably true. The only thing the Piglets really offer is good defenses for their cost, meaning they take a bit to chew through. I could definitely see Sammy leading some Wild Boars as a forward distraction force for Somer post-Wave 2, that could be a lot of fun to run actually.

[Last Griffon]

Wow,

Thank you everyone for your responses. I'm going to try out both a Somer crew and Ophelia crew very soon, probably starting with 35 SS and then moving up from there. Here's what I'm figuring for my first go, please let me know if you think there are major improvements to be made:

Somer w/ family tree

Francois or Rami

Slop Hauler

Bayou Gremlin x2

Skeeter x 2

Lenny w/ I'll Love it and Pet it

Starting SS: 5

Ophelia

Rami w/ Dirty Cheater

Raphael

Francois

Young LaCroix x2

Lenny

Starting SS: 3

I'm figuring that at 50 SS, I add a 3rd Bayou gremlin and 2nd slop hauler for Somer.

At 50, Ophelia would add a 3rd Young LaCroix and slop hauler?

[Omenbringer]

With the Som'er list you need to be prepared to concede a few VP early while building the boys and pigs up in turns 1-2. Dont rush the summoned models up field before you are ready or the y tend to not do much.

[RagingRodian]

You are going to want some sort of healing for Francois, either in the form of upgrades or a nearby Slop Hauler. Francois has an excellent melee attack, and you will drop models with it fast, but it does big time damage because it has the Ram needed to trigger Dumb Luck built in...meaning he will constantly be taking damage even if you never make him Reckless.

With Lenny in a Lacroix crew you will also be triggering Dumb Luck around him, which will start killing off your own models if you aren't healing them. No joke, by turn three of most of my games the majority of damage on my crew is self inflicted.

Watch out for two other things with Lenny. He is easily Lured out of position. He is also Height 2, meaning your ability to freely shoot into engagements with most of your crew (an Ophelia favorite...) becomes more difficult if he is involved.

I would also recommend Bayou Gremlins over multiple Young Lacroix. The ability to interact is huge in winning games, and while the Young Lacroix consistently do more damage in shooting with their base pistol than the Bayou Gremlins do the Bayou Gremlins have a melee attack, the ability to engage models, and the ability to constantly cheat through the use of Bayou Two card. They can also go Drunk and Reckless, giving them a quick speed boost in a pinch. Do not use these guys for fighting if at all possible, that is what Ophelia, Rami, Raphael, and Francois are for!

You really only need 1-2 Young Lacroix around to hand Ophelia a gun or two at the start of the game, and 1 to reload her if she actually uses one of the guns. Hooch Igniter is...situational. Jug Rocket can be fun, but competes with Oooo...a Girl for zero action movement shenanigans. Threatenin' Gun got way over cuddled, I might use it once in a game, then reload it just to use it as ablative armor for Ophelia. You just don't need three Young around to engage in upgrade shenanigans.

Rami can already heal himself. Go Reckless every turn, and if needed set an AP aside to use his Trusty Flask. Give the Dirty Cheating to Ophelia- she is a shooting magnet, one of the main damage dealers in your crew, the giver of the Aim High Boys bubble (very important!), and the one who consistently has the most AP and therefore the most opportunities to cheat!

[DavicusPrime]

...No joke, by turn three of most of my games the majority of damage on my crew is self inflicted.

This is very true. You don't have to use a trigger though, so if you're trying to preserve your models for longer term goals, you might even forgo using dumb luck until you can restore their health (sacrilege, I know). This is much more of a problem with Ophelia as she can't summon replacements on her own.

I would also recommend Bayou Gremlins over multiple Young Lacroix. The ability to interact is huge in winning games, and while the Young Lacroix consistently do more damage in shooting with their base pistol than the Bayou Gremlins do the Bayou Gremlins have a melee attack, the ability to engage models, and the ability to constantly cheat through the use of Bayou Two card. They can also go Drunk and Reckless, giving them a quick speed boost in a pinch. Do not use these guys for fighting if at all possible, that is what Ophelia, Rami, Raphael, and Francois are for!

You really only need 1-2 Young Lacroix around to hand Ophelia a gun or two at the start of the game, and 1 to reload her if she actually uses one of the guns. Hooch Igniter is...situational. Jug Rocket can be fun, but competes with Oooo...a Girl for zero action movement shenanigans. Threatenin' Gun got way over cuddled, I might use it once in a game, then reload it just to use it as ablative armor for Ophelia. You just don't need three Young around to engage in upgrade shenanigans.

I really like the Young LaCroix for their utility for Ophelia and since they can pump out lots of fire power on their own. But the inability to interact was a limiter in the last game I played. I've come to see them as little more than an extension of Ophelia. I was forced to have Raphael and Francois be my primary objective grabbers, claiming squat markers and dropping scheme markers. On the flip side, Franc and Raph can claim/place then also protect the markers they claim/place. But if I had breakthrough or recon, some speedy little guys who are able to interact would have been very valuable.

As for healing... It seems the trick in using Slop Haulers is getting them in place to be useful. Thankfully with M2E, their healing ability isn't a full action like it used to be, so he can reckless to move and then dole out the sloppy goodness. But even then, their lack of speed limits them. Two ways I've had the most luck are as follows:

-For any crew, hold him a bit back from the engagement and let the wounded fall back to him so that they're all in place when it comes time for him to feed the piggies. Or even have him stand just in range of a couple engaged front liners and heal them as needed.

-For an Ophelia crew, use Oooo... A girl and/or Jug Rocket to yank/toss him into the middle of the action to top off the lads.

-DavicusPrime

[Dumb Luck]

Saying that 'Your Turn!' is competing with 'Ooo a Girl!' just because they're both movement tricks is missing the point entirely. The latter is more flexible, seeing as it can be used to drag models into fights or away from them but it crucially requires Ophelia to be pointing in the general direction of that scrum - something you may not always want. 'Your Turn!' is more useful for dropping threats and then legging it. Note that it is a place too - you don't need to be able to see where the model is going. This means you can fling Pere over buildings or place Kin on top of stuff to place a hard to reach scheme marker. Both are ace.

Same goes for 'Move It!'. So much can be done with that one AP, even if you just look at stuff that won't involve duels of any kind.

Of course it's situational. Doesn't that mean its sub par? Not in the slightest. I find situations to use them in every game. Movement tricks win games.

[DavicusPrime]

...Of course it's situational. Doesn't that mean its sub par? Not in the slightest. I find situations to use them in every game. Movement tricks win games.

I'm in total agreement there. Movement tricks are all situational. Knowing when and how to utilize them is where the tactical Knowwhats kicks in.

-DavicusPrime

[Dumb Luck]

Combine 'Ooo a Girl' with Toss from Lenny. Lenny punts a guy up, shoots something and then Ophelia drags it back.

Nice.

[Omenbringer]

Watch out for two other things with Lenny. He is easily Lured out of position. He is also Height 2, meaning your ability to freely shoot into engagements with most of your crew (an Ophelia favorite...) becomes more difficult if he is involved.

I agree but Lenny is Ht 3 not 2.

I would also recommend Bayou Gremlins over multiple Young Lacroix. The ability to interact is huge in winning games...

The ability to interact is definitely huge and when coupled with Drunk and Reckless makes Bayou Gremlin's good if somewhat fragile VP collector's.

[RagingRodian]

I agree but Lenny is Ht 3 not 2.

Oops! I meant Ht 3! Thanks for spotting that!

---------- Post added at 11:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:24 PM ----------

Saying that 'Your Turn!' is competing with 'Ooo a Girl!' just because they're both movement tricks is missing the point entirely.

They compete with each other simply because they are both zero actions. Otherwise I am with you about how useful movement shenanigans can be!