How important is Joss for a Ramos Crew?

[Zwergenkrieger]

Hi all,

I´m contemplating the buy of some Ramos stuff and well, there seems to be 2 directions to go:

1. Wait till december to get the new boxed set.

Though it is heavily expensive IMO. If I see it right, you get

Ramos

Joss

Brass Arachnid

3 Spiders (or one swarm)

Langston

Well, I´m not that intrested in Langston, because I like to run the rail golem instead. Therefore the box only is of use for me if I have to get that nice looking Joss model.

2. Buy now, buy "the old stuff"

Well, I can get all pieces I want with seperate clamshells (ie Ramos, Brass Arachnid, Electrical Creation, lots of spiders, Railgolem) for cheaper now.

On the other hand I can only get a bad looking Joss model. Well, I eventually am able to convert one into looking somewhat better, but then I can also wait to get the new boxed set, because converting Joss won´t be much cheaper that getting him inside the new box (I have to get a model with some kind of mechanical arm, too)...

So, do I really need Joss?

Would I cut myself if I avoid using him?

[decker_cky]

You get 6 spiders/2 swarms, don't you?

Joss is very good, and having the option of Howard Langston is better than not having the option. Heck....it can be pretty fun to run all three at once!

Waiting might not even be a major factor. Last year, there was a few prerelease kits available from Wyrd on Black Friday. I predict that some of the kits from the release schedule will be available over the weekend.

edit: Yup, two swarms which means if you want Joss, you basically get Langston for free compared to the metals (which are roughly $10 each for Ramos, swarms, Joss and the brass arachnid).

Edited November 6, 2013 by decker_cky

[mattausten86]

I wouldnt say you need him, per se, but hes very useful to have around, just for his ability to always drop a scrap counter aswell as the type of counter tye model would drop after he kills it....

It helps that hes good at killing stuff too.

[DavicusPrime]

If you don't have any of the models, I'd wait for the new box. The cost vs. spiffiness of the new models favors the plastics. And as it's been said, more options is always good in this game.

I have all of the old metals including the Brass Arachnid which looks like a wind up toy compared to the new one that puts the old Large Arachnid to shame. I'll be converting my Joss's Right arm with some greenstuff and guitar wire to fit the current fluff. But then I've gotten pretty good sculpting with GS.

I kind of wish I hadn't gotten into the game until now so I didn't have this hesitation to get the new plastic sets. I'm guessing that it's just plain not cost effective for Wyrd to release individual models of those available with the master boxes for anything but the minions.

-DavicusPrime

[Dracomax]

What Davicus Prime said. I'm currently trying to convince myself that I do need to buy the new Ramos box, even though I already have everything in it.

@Zwergenkrieger: Joss is great. Honestly, if you ever plan on playing any other Arcanist crew, pick him up. He isn't necessary for Ramos, but he makes Ramos better.

First, he's one of the best tanks in the game, and has good damage as well that ignores H2W, Armor, andremoves defensive triggers. This means he cuts through a lot of the tankier models.

Second, he has armor 2, Hard to Kill, and a reactivate tha keys off of hard to kill, so he's really hard to just take down.

Third, and best for Ramos, he makes scrap when he kills things. Doesn't matter what. they die by his hand, they drop scrap.

Fourth, he can take the Bleeding Edge Tech upgrade, and give all of the M&SU minions regeneration. Rail Golem can too, but Joss can then take another upgrade, and that frees RG up for a +1 Df from imbued protection.

I will say that Joss and Howard are both Models you are going to want to buy eventually. The Rail Golem is great, don't get me wrong, but sometimes, it just isn't the best monster for the Job. Also, it's great fun to bring the Rail Golem, Howard, and Joss, and still be out activating your opponent on turn 4. For one thing, with that many big models, your opponent has to split up their attention to deal with all the stuff you have going on, and then your spiders can sneak in and accomplish things.

@Davicusprime: Wyrd stopped with individual models of things that came in the box sets during the metals, at least partially for warehouse space. There is also the issue that a lot of stores were complaining, because it was difficult to sell those individual models, since they came in the box set, and once you had that, you don't need two Joss.

[DavicusPrime]

@Zwergenkrieger: Joss is great. Honestly, if you ever plan on playing any other Arcanist crew, pick him up. He isn't necessary for Ramos, but he makes Ramos better.

First, he's one of the best tanks in the game, and has good damage as well that ignores H2W, Armor, andremoves defensive triggers. This means he cuts through a lot of the tankier models.

Second, he has armor 2, Hard to Kill, and a reactivate tha keys off of hard to kill, so he's really hard to just take down.

Third, and best for Ramos, he makes scrap when he kills things. Doesn't matter what. they die by his hand, they drop scrap.

Fourth, he can take the Bleeding Edge Tech upgrade, and give all of the M&SU minions regeneration. Rail Golem can too, but Joss can then take another upgrade, and that frees RG up for a +1 Df from imbued protection.

All three games I played I took Joss with Bleeding edge Tech. I held him back, but close enough to my spiders to keep them healing. And his presence made my opponent a little cautious to push too far into my side of the board (we were playing recon).

I will say that Joss and Howard are both Models you are going to want to buy eventually. The Rail Golem is great, don't get me wrong, but sometimes, it just isn't the best monster for the Job. Also, it's great fun to bring the Rail Golem, Howard, and Joss, and still be out activating your opponent on turn 4. For one thing, with that many big models, your opponent has to split up their attention to deal with all the stuff you have going on, and then your spiders can sneak in and accomplish things.

I LOVE HOWIE!!! I pretty much denied an entire side of the table using him in one game. The free walk action ("nimble") was wonderful. He tar-pitted my opponent's tank (Freidcorp Strong arm), while walking around inside the engagement range letting him walk around the Strong arm and pick-off other models that were trying to slip around them with his full 2 AP.

@Davicusprime: Wyrd stopped with individual models of things that came in the box sets during the metals, at least partially for warehouse space. There is also the issue that a lot of stores were complaining, because it was difficult to sell those individual models, since they came in the box set, and once you had that, you don't need two Joss.

And I don't blame them one bit. I just don't want to have to buy whole boxes just to get one or two of the models. But I'll probably end up doing it anyway. Perhaps I'll just have to get a Nicodem crew and convert all my unused models into mindless Zombies.

-DavicusPrime

[bfrench]

Played against a Ramos crew the other day, I think he would have done much better with Joss because it would have given him quite a few more scrap markers. Creative salvage is an awesome ability. Plus he has a trigger called choke slam!!!

[mythicFOX]

Just on the cost thing. The new Ramos box ($50) is listed as:

Ramos

Howard

2x Steam Arachnid Swarms (6x Steam Arachnids)

Joss

Brass Arachnid

To buy the same models in metal today (prices from the Wyrd store), Ramos Box $40, Joss $9.50, Brass Arachnid $9, so in total $58.50.

So to get the metal today you're paying an extra $8.50.

Personally I always like having Joss around, he's not totally essential bti he's close IMO.

Edited November 6, 2013 by mythicFOX

[Durza]

Joss has been fantastic in every game I've played with him, his crowning moment was probably one shotting Lilith turn one with a red joker on pneumatic fist. He's single handedly taken out a Peacekeeper, paralyzed Seamus and tied him up for 3 turns, he is very good.

[Zwergenkrieger]

Ok, folks, you convinced me to wait and buy the new Ramos box. Untill then, I´m going to spend my time on some swampfiends...

Have a nice day! And thanks for all that great help.