edonil Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 Maybe Killjoy is a former Tyrant? Such thing has happened with Hungering Darkness, which had lost its powers and became what it's now. The curse of undeath and losing all of his memories are also included in this case. Oh, one other thing I want to note- HD has never claimed to be a Tyrant. I'm not sure that HD ever was one. The read I got off things was that HD saw what the Tyrants were and hid to keep from being devoured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soundwave Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 Oh, one other thing I want to note- HD has never claimed to be a Tyrant. I'm not sure that HD ever was one. The read I got off things was that HD saw what the Tyrants were and hid to keep from being devoured. But it has the Tyrant-font!.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 Eh. There's that, but that's always struck me as more of a distinctive pattern to set apart the old denizens. Still, it is definitely there. At the very least, HD is terrified of the Tyrants, so if it is/was one, it's certainly a weaker one! At this point, either eventuality works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizuriel Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 Actually, LCB never answers the question directly. When Pandora asks him about it, he redirects the issue to something else, and Pandora has an inner reflection that he's never considered the idea. If he is a Tyrant, he's forgotten it, which is quite possible considering the time involved. Or he's really, really good at misdirection, which would fit with him. It does say something that, like many of the other Tyrants, he is locked away in a sense. He has no physical presence in Malifaux not connected to the Dreamer anymore. I just find it weird that Zorinda and Lilith sent Pandora to recruit him against the Tyrants. Considering their goal is to defeat the Tyrants; and if anyone knows who they all are it would be Zorinda and Lilith, that just makes them look pretty stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 Alfdrate from dakkadakka wrote: There was something about the Hungering Darkness's fluff in Book 4 about him being a Tyrant a long time ago, but instead of being sealed away, he simply lurked in the darkness and lost a good chunk of his power and tyrant status, but he was one. I haven't books 3 and 4 and can't check it, but I like the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ierocis Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 Concerning Hungering Darkness, pg 84 of Storm of Shadows: "The creature went on to tell Lynch that it could no longer remember its true name but had been called Hungering Darkness for those centuries it could remember. It explained that it was a creature of Old Malifaux and came into its own power when it and other mighty creatures it called Tyrants rose to dominance. Where the Tyrants were powerful and strode the land as gods, the Hungering Darkness preferred to keep to the shadows. It was its aversion to attention that allowed the Hungering Darkness to avoid being imprisoned along with the other Tyrants." I'd conclude he's a Tyrant, just a sly one that avoids the spotlight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracomax Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 Well, it is possible that Huggy was not a tyrant, but merely a powerful underling—Much as Goebbels was not Fuhrer, but merely a monster in human guise...(yes, I did equate the tyrants to Hitler. Anyone arguing?) Also, I should point out that The Grave Spirit appears not to be a Tyrant... Possibly it is something that the Tyrants created, or that they awakened/empowered, but it appears to be as powerful, if not more so, than the tyrants. Even if a way is found to kill the tyrants, it won't work on the grave spirit. After all, how do you kill death itself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 Maybe Grave Spirit is manifestation of that power which rebels wanted to use againt Tyrants while opening a portal to a Death world. Well, it is possible that Huggy was not a tyrant, but merely a powerful underling And here we have Riders - very powerful beings with unclear origins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracomax Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 Maybe Grave Spirit is manifestation of that power which rebels wanted to use againt Tyrants while opening a portal to a Death world. And here we have Riders - very powerful beings with unclear origins. Or, it is the portal to the death world... or the death world itself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomBalm Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 I love this thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker Barrows Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 Eh. There's that, but that's always struck me as more of a distinctive pattern to set apart the old denizens. Still, it is definitely there. At the very least, HD is terrified of the Tyrants, so if it is/was one, it's certainly a weaker one! At this point, either eventuality works. I always assumed Hungry was one of the potential Tyrants, but decided to hide instead of becoming Tyrant like the others were. He was as powerful as the Tyrants in their time, but was never one of them. I figure you could reach that level of power without becoming a Tyrant. As for Lilith and Zorida recruiting Lord Chompy Bits, there could be plenty of reasonable explanations. Maybe he is no longer interested in ascension. Or (more likely), they simply plan on using him to take down the other Tyrants and then betray him should he get out of hand or make a play for ascension himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgarbonzo Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 So there are only 5 actual Tyrant characteristics in the game? Hamelin, Chompy, Shenlong, Avatar Raspy and Avatar Sonnia? Any others I may have missed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracomax Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 I think they may not have known that chompy was a Tyrant—or think that his chosen hiding place is enough to keep him in line. He took refuge in the world of dreams, and it would seem it changed him more than he thought it would... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 Honestly, I think it's quite possible that they didn't know LCB was a Tyrant. I mean, looking at the way Pandora phrases the question, she's surprised by the possibility. Still not sure that Huggy is a Tyrant, though, based on the conversation between him, Misaki, Mei and Yan Lo in the M2e book. That, and they seem to be applying the Tyrant tag wherever it applies, whether we have the fluff for it or not. Three Avatars, two regular models, two of which we had no fluff justification that made it absolute (LCB and Shenlong). HD doesn't have the Tyrant characteristic. But, that's a question I'll look forward to seeing the answer to either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 I always thought HD was around way back then, but when everyone else made the big power plays he thought 'yeah, that's not going end well' and decided to go for the immortal ish but needs a host kind of thing rather than becoming a tyrant. He's powerful, but give him one immune munchkin to ride about on and enough sparkly junkies, and he's happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelious1424 Posted May 6, 2014 Report Share Posted May 6, 2014 My persective of the Chompy fluff is that he's became rather happy living in the world of dreams. As long as there are those of the "living" variety, he will always have a source to his power (feasting on the dreams of the living). Dreamer sort of put him in a wierd place, due to his ability to manipulate dreams better than he could ever think possible. My feeling, is that he's attatched him self to the Dreamer, only to keep an eye out, so that he (Dreamer) doesn't become too powerful and ascend, thus one day absorbing Chompy of all of his power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borzag Posted May 6, 2014 Report Share Posted May 6, 2014 So there are only 5 actual Tyrant characteristics in the game? Hamelin, Chompy, Shenlong, Avatar Raspy and Avatar Sonnia? Any others I may have missed? You left out Huggy. And I think Big Angry Seamus gets Tyrant as well from memory? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted May 6, 2014 Report Share Posted May 6, 2014 Wait. Does Huggy have Tyrant? O.o If so, I stand corrected on all relevant theories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted May 6, 2014 Report Share Posted May 6, 2014 Nope. Neither Huggy, nor Avatar Lynch, have the Tyrant characteristic. Huggy has Darkened and Spirit. Edit: Also, just checking, Seamus doesn't gain Tyrant either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted May 6, 2014 Report Share Posted May 6, 2014 So there are only 5 actual Tyrant characteristics in the game? Hamelin, Chompy, Shenlong, Avatar Raspy and Avatar Sonnia? Any others I may have missed? Yes, only them. But as I understood that shows the level of power of that Tyrants (and maybe their possibility to act in material world directly). F. e. Tara (or the Nohing Beast) doesn't gain such characteristic but she has straight connection to Obliteration. And other possible connections are: Gorgon's Gaze of old edition Seamus' avatar and Molly's upgrade - Tear of The Gorgon Mark of Shez'uul - upgrade of Viktorias and also they have lot of actions with titles like Dragon's bite (and someone called Victoria to cross the Breach) 10T upgrades - Servant of Five dragons, Dragon stone. Samurai owe their allegiance to "The Dragon" (so it must be Shenlong) Perdita's avatar is Witness (and her prophetic visions has definately unnatural origins). Neverborn have upgrade Stone of Tyrant Echoes (as a symbol of their victory?). Also, Relic hammers - I bet they were forged by Neverborn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utterkhaos Posted May 6, 2014 Report Share Posted May 6, 2014 " It explained that it was a creature of Old Malifaux and came into its own power when it and other mighty creatures it called Tyrants rose to dominance." This line here makes be think huggy 100% isnt a tyrant. he refers to the tyrants as other creatures called tyrants not as his fellow tyrants. also to my knowledge grave spirit is not a tyrant but the essence of death personified. Seamus tried to harness its power but was stopped by that son of a b......hawkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted May 6, 2014 Report Share Posted May 6, 2014 Shez'uul is the name of one of the Viks upgrades. I remember reading somewhere Shez'uul is the Tyrant of Slaughter. The Viks have the Upgrade Mark of Shez'uul which negates protection from Armour, Incorporeal, HtW and HtK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted May 6, 2014 Report Share Posted May 6, 2014 I remember reading somewhere Shez'uul is the Tyrant of Slaughter. Maybe in Twisting Fates? And Viks' ultimate form is Avatar of Slaughter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracomax Posted May 6, 2014 Report Share Posted May 6, 2014 Well, We know that the Masamune holds one of the tyrants, and given the avatar, it is probably Shez'uul. I still think it might actually be a murasame... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Godlyness Posted May 6, 2014 Report Share Posted May 6, 2014 But why was that tyrant Earthside? Viktoria Got that sweet sword before she was in malifaux. I theorize that shezull Attached itself to her blade because her blade is something that could kill it so why not just become it to forever immortalize yourself? and Still feed off the slaughter the sisters bring. Seems like a win win to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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