Cats Laughing Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 Oh wow. A lot sure does happen on these forums that has nothing to do with rules. *is confused* You been on the internet how long? ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_was_like_you Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 Oh wow. A lot sure does happen on these forums that has nothing to do with rules. *is confused* This isn't in the Rules section, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavicusPrime Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 I think finally I understand GW being stingy with their release info... Things didn't go silly in this thread until the new release and related prices got published. Then everything went sideways with all the pricing and business/econ 101 weirdness. *shock* The horror... The horror... -DavicusPrime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehren37 Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 I think finally I understand GW being stingy with their release info... Things didn't go silly in this thread until the new release and related prices got published. Then everything went sideways with all the pricing and business/econ 101 weirdness. *shock* The horror... The horror... -DavicusPrime Fuhatsu aside, I think the prices are quite fair/reasonable. I think those of us who balk at his price tag would balk at release as well. I cant wait to snag some new Nephilim, and I already own 3 matures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagingRodian Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 Has Wyrd ever actually 'declared plastics to be cheaper than metals'? IIRC when Wyrd went plastic they said they were doing so to avoid increasing the prices they charged any further than they had to for the book three metal releases. I'm not aware they've ever said plastics would be cheaper for us to buy than metals. Even if they didn't, and I just don't feel like digging for it either way, that genie has been out of the bottle for what, 20 years now? Nobody can seriously say otherwise at this point. Interestingly, the process has also been resistant to inflation. It is a very computerized process, and like most technologies it becomes more efficient, smaller, and do more as time goes on. Also, it can now be outsourced on the cheap to China. For years it couldn't because the results were terrible, but now you can take advantage of China's cheap, exploitable labor pool. Even Games Workshop is now doing a huge chunk of their manufacturing in China. If you have been around in this hobby for a while you will remember a time when smaller companies (which would have included Wyrd) couldn't even afford the initial investment into plastics. Look around now, there are quite a few people making great plastic kits. That also doesn't change questions about plastics costing as much as metals. ---------- Post added at 09:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:40 PM ---------- I think finally I understand GW being stingy with their release info... Things didn't go silly in this thread until the new release and related prices got published. Then everything went sideways with all the pricing and business/econ 101 weirdness. *shock* The horror... The horror... -DavicusPrime Even if they didn't say anything on here we would have found out regardless. As Nathan touched on earlier, there is a delay between having product in hand and being able to sell it, and Wyrd does deal with distributors. One of the things that you have to do with distributors in this industry is solicit your goods months ahead of time. Basically, you have to tell the distributors what you will be selling in the upcoming months and what you will be charging for it. Once that information is out there it is fair game for the rest of us, this isn't a trade secret. GW does not have to do this, they sell direct. To them, distributors are just another customer just like any other store account. GW is also of the opinion that, once you know when something you want will be released, you will only put money aside for that purchase and GW will lose out on potential impulse sales. This next part I can't confirm, it is just what I have been told by people I trust within the GW camp. GW's release schedules and studio leaks were legendary for years, you always saw what was coming up if you knew where to look. So the story goes, when GW obtained the license for all the LOTR stuff one of the conditions was they had to plug up the leaks- they did not want anything LOTR based to be accidentally leaked before they were ready. But yeah, this could just be rumor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 That also doesn't change questions about plastics costing as much as metals. Which Nathan took the time and trouble today to explain in detail. On topic, what are people looking forward to the most? I'm probably after Pandora and Lone Marshal the most. Nicely spread out for me, since I'm trying to catch up on my pile of unpainted shinies a bit before getting even more stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Shine Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 Lone Marshal and ramos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagingRodian Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 (Long post about how the industry works) Much of this is pretty spot on, if you work in the gaming industry these are the sorts of things that you deal with. Reaper, they have always had competition of some sort. They have been quiet lately, but that is more due to having released Bones. Bones added a mess of new codes to their catalog all at once, and they were so busy they couldn't attend big trade shows let alone maintain their usual release schedule. Even if you don't care for the style of all of the figures (and that is ok) they are an American manufacturer, distributing through the same channels as you, making quality metal models at a cheap price and making money doing it. Hasslefree...who are we kidding, it simply is not possible to send enough love towards these guys. While they do save money on packaging they also lose money do to relatively low sales and reliance on outside contractors for molds and casting. You also can't complain about the quality of their figures, even if you don't care for the style. Therefore, still a good company to bring up. Perry brothers? If you aren't familiar with their solo work you should check it out. I named them because, again, even if you don't care for the models you can't deny their quality. They also make both metal and plastic models, and their metals are again below or equal to the price range of your plastics. Just as significant, they make boxed sets full of great figures, made in England by Renedra not by cheap laborers in China, sell to a smaller market, and sell their models for a dollar a head with included painting guides and flags. GW? It may have been a while since you mail ordered from GW. The baggies days are gone, the models are fully packaged. I have bought several models as soon as I heard they were about to be turned into Failcast. They are packaged because retailers can still choose to carry them, albeit at a less favorable discount. Also, all of their metal production is now in England, so they are selling these models at those prices even after being imported. I was taken a bit by surprise by one thing that you posted: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Shine Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 Can you PLEASE take your pewter/plastic discussion to the thread about it? Really would like to talk about the releases in the new releases thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagingRodian Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 When it comes to shipping, it's a huge savings. A thousand plastic sprues vs. a thousand metal miniatures, big difference in the cost of shipping, both to receive and to send right back out. When spin casting metal, the molds get used up pretty quickly and you find there are shift and tears as well as extra metal that hangs on due to the venting of the mold. We used to take the time to cut and clean those up because the presentation inside the clamshell would be better. That takes time, which equates to money, and all the extraneous metal adds up. We filled up eight of those orange home depot buckets and each one weighed somewhere around eighty pounds. That was over the course of a year. Now with that in mind, that was extra metal that we ended up paying shipping on, as well as cleaning. Adds up significantly. Oh, and you have to pay for the creation of new molds ... often. (continued from my last post on this thread) This. This is what made me pause. Honestly, up until this point when you kept talking about not charging what you were supposed to charge on your back catalog I thought you were on crack. But then I got to this and a missing puzzle piece fell into place. Unlike most large scale miniatures manufacturers, you were not doing the casting and mold making yourself. You were having your costs unnecessarily bloated! Casting yourself means you only pay shipping once. There is no such thing as extraneous metal, any extra metal gets melted and reused, metal is extremely practical in this regard. You should never have 80 pound buckets of scrap sitting around. Never, as in never. All of that is reusable. You also can cast as you need things, rather than having to keep huge piles on hand for potential sale, and package as you go along. Got stuff not selling? Back in the pot. Don't want to pay taxes on extra stock at the end of the year? Back in the pot. Got a miscast? Back in the pot. You can also pay true metal prices, not somebody else's metal prices. When you are doing your own casting you are also prone to take better care of your molds and do quality control to your own standards. Even if you are damaging molds you can replace 100 of the same mold for metal and it will still be cheaper than 1 mold for plastics- but this fee is exagerrated if you are paying someone else to do it. You should also never be cleaning models before putting them into blister packs. I can't even imagine what went wrong there. I have been in a few casting rooms, and I have packed my fair share of models, and I have never seen people cleaning models before putting them into blister packs. At this point the advice is too late for you. But really, this isn't a cautionary tale about metals in general, it is a cautionary tale of doing metals wrong. Nonetheless, this experience may have skewed your perception costs as to what metals should cost. Minus the middle man fees, unnecessary second shipping fees, and waste that you have experienced, your metal prices are about right....and as such a fair comparison to your plastic prices $90 for a Hoffman is too much. Realistically, even without the added surcharges, this is going to be a big model and anyone sensible would tell you to make it in plastic. Metal isn't appropriate for everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Shine Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagingRodian Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 Which Nathan took the time and trouble today to explain in detail. I wasn't finished yet, I was in the process of responding in detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 *pfft* no Hannah in the foreseeable future at retail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagingRodian Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 I realize that you are willing to pay whatever Wyrd charges for upcoming releases and that is fine, it is your money. However, a few people in this thread have discussed the pricing of the upcoming releases and there is no need to mock anyone for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afro Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 I just wanted to take a moment and thank Wyrd for the release schedule. It helps me make decisions on which metals to buy based on the release window. If I know the model I need is two months away I can get the metal version now from my local store (looking at you young and mature neph). It's also cool that you provide a beta of the models before the official release so we can play with them before they are officially out. Keep up the good work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 You know what? We've been more than generous, but this thread has gone the way of the last one and been totally derailed and clogged. I'm shutting it, and opening a new one here: http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?48445-Releases-Sept-Jan But let me be clear - materials discussion is to go in the materials thread. In there, full economic breakdowns, material specifications, all sorts of things like that are fine. In the releases thread, they are not, and any derailment over materials (yet again) will result in removed posts. I'm sorry to have to be somewhat harsh, but this is beyond a joke when people can't have a thread to discuss releases without that being raised endlessly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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