Guild, what are we/they about? Any intro to be given?

[Brence]

After some reading the forums and listening to the various podcasts I can't quite figure Guild into a certain playstyle. Im aware that the playstyle ofcourse changes up with the use of different masters, however is there any certain defining feature to the Guild? I bought Seamus and Lady J. as a box as a nice fluffwise set. Due to unboxings etc. I have a basic idea what Seamus does with his crew. Apart from "L.J. is a homing missile." I havent quite seen any real playstyle around her (or other masters).

[Marcalla]

For me, the guild is the government of Malifaux. So its bureaucratic. A department for every situation... You got a problem with undead, go to line 3 and speak with the death marshals. You got a problem with an arcanist, proceed to line 2 and speak with the department of witches. Got a problem with the locals (neverborn) we'll put the family on it. Got a problem with a automatons, go talk to C. Hoffman, you'll find him in the dept of automaton research.

The play style of the guild is that they are every play style or more to the point keeping all other play styles in check.

In game terms they have access to alot of scheme marker manipulation. (more than other factions or at least it seems that way)

They do have the best spellcaster in the game with Sonia's ability to be Ca 9.

Lady J is pretty straight forward in her style, she's really really really good at putting out alot of damage but pretty much only in melee. It can make her seem rather one dimensional. To get the best out of her (to take advantage of what she looses to be one of the highest melee damage producers in the game) she needs to be in combat and that limits her in other areas of the game possibly more so than any other master currently released. She has more synergy with her crew than in 1.5 but its still not alot of synergy. She does her thing, and her henchman the judge handles the minions she brings along.

[Rathnard]

To me, the Guild are about dealing damage, ranged attacks and neutralising enemy "tricks".

Guild models generally have great damage spreads, and it's made better by the prevalence of the critical strike trigger. You'll also notice that most of their models have a pistol or rifle (or bird...) attack of some kind, which is something you'll see far less often among the other factions.

In terms of their anti-trick abilities, this tends to be seen as a slightly above average Wp (the stat you're usually resisting on against non-damaging attacks) or abilities like Counterspell or Stubborn, which make it much more difficult for your opponent to target your models with those "non-traditional" (ie. anything that's not sharp and pointy) attacks. They're also the faction with excellent access to condition removal. Lady Justice has it with Restore Natural order, some of the Ortegas have Shrug off it's available freely and cheaply in the form of Witchling stalkers too.

With M2E, the Guild also got some really great abilities related to Scheme-markers. On average the Guild models tend to be a bit slower than what you get in other factions, their guns help them project their influence onto the board but it's also made up for by having models with Finish the Job (place a Scheme marker upon death) and models like McMourning and the Austringer being able to make other models make interact actions. It's one of the things I really like about the new Guild, actually.

[Hagisman]

I've only got a chance to play the Lady J box once, but I get the feeling that if you plan on taking it Line in the Sand is definitely a scheme to take with them. Especially if you find yourself unable to keep Death Marshals alive.

The Judge has a nice support ability that allows him to push models closer to him. So you can sling shot Death Marshals around to get into better positions.

Aside from that I don't know much about the other Masters yet. Lady J seems to be good for taking out enemy Minions, but she can easily be taken out at ranged. or so is my experience.

I have found that Guild are not talked about as much on the Podcasts as other factions. But that seems to be due to the crews of the Podcasters. Diary of a Malinoob on Malifools podcast follows a new to Malifaux player using Sonia.

Lady J seems to be the least talked about master if Guild is in conversation, which is a bit weird if I'm honest considering she is in the Wave 1 box set.

[Brence]

Thanks for the first responses!

It seems under the guise of being "average" there is alot of little subtleties going on which don't right away jump out at you like other factions have.

So concerning Lady J. I understand her Crew itself does synergize, but more so to her Henchmen (the Judge) then herself?

[Helm]

Thanks for the first responses!

It seems under the guise of being "average" there is alot of little subtleties going on which don't right away jump out at you like other factions have.

So concerning Lady J. I understand her Crew itself does synergize, but more so to her Henchmen (the Judge) then herself?

Lady J gives some buffs to her Crew when she kills people. She is very good at killing people.

Judge, meanwhile, is very solid in combat. Whenever my regular opponent plays him, though, he ends up dashing around pulling Lady J out of bad situations or bringing other Death Marshals closer in.

Another way to use Lady J is just to have her hang around at the back being intimidating. Your opponent knows that anything that moves within 14" of her (5" move, 7" charge, 2" sword) is likely going to get killed. This means that if they have a model that they intend to use for scoring or assassinating a particular model, they'll probably be wary about letting it near Justice.

[Dracomax]

Honestly, as a whole, I'd say that guild are the best at being solid. Especially with M2E bringing movement more into line(so far) and adding a bunch of additional action synergies, they aren't really weak anywhere, but generally, they aren't really strong anywhere either. They have a counter to most things, and are a great faction to chose to be able to handle any strategy/scheme. They are also currently the best at placing extra scheme markers. They tend to have (very good) low-to midlevel minions in both power and cost, giving them a decent AP advantage against all non-swarm crews.

That beings said, the individual masters and henchmen have more relevant strengths and weaknesses that make them better than many of the opposition.

The following comments are based on the current state of M2E:

Sonnia: best caster in the game, has the best area damage attacks in the game, and can target you without penalty even if you are hiding behind a tree so long as you are on fire.

However, she has a relatively low defense(it can be buffed, but only at the expense of other abilities) and her movement isn't almost as bad as it gets. The crew she works best with currently has a tendency to go down like wet tissue. She also goes through cards and soulstones like a red hot chainsaw through butter. Seriously, one of the biggest challenges with her is going to be to learn when to use a soulstone and when to just accept a loss.

Her default playstyle is to send out witchlings to set things on fire, and then sit back and blast the thing on fire or it's friends into ashes. She has the option to take upgrades that give her better control abilities or more powerful single target spells.

Lady J: Some synergies with her crew. Mostly, she has the best damage in the game, and only one or two models can equal her attack. She also has a lot of wounds and the ability to heal, so while you can take her down, you will almost certainly have to sacrifice a model or use a gunline to do it. She also has one of the most powerful condition removal abilities in the game.

On the other hand, her playstyle is fairly straight forward, her defense is only moderate and her trigger off of it is either going to be overkill or nonexistant unless you spend a soulstone/cheat. She can be tarpitted fairly easily, she is exceptionally vulnerable to swarm attacks, and while she has a decent threat range, her movement is average at best.

Her default playstyle is, as far as I can tell, to let her crew mop up schemes and strategies while she charges the most powerful enemies and slices them to pieces. She can bring upgrades that make her deadlier(because that's what she needs... ), give her anti-undead superpowers, or just remove corpse/scrap markers at will.

Perdita: I have less experience, so most of this is based on what others have said. She can be one of the best melee fighters out there, and is definitely one of the best ranged. She also gets free movement every turn, works exceedingly well with family models, and has a lot of control. She also has Df 7, with a damage dealing trigger. Her upgrades are some of the best guild has to offer.

However, she is the guild master with the fewest wounds, she defaults to an expensive crew, so will often not have many AP available to her. It's going to be tempting to run her with full upgrades on everyone, making that even worse. Her crew are going to be difficult to take down, but when you do, you hurt her disproportiantly, likely forcing her to change her strategy instantly because she will be using the interactions between models.

Her default, as near as I can tell is to be adaptable. she is good at long range, short range, and in between, and doesn't seem to have many weaknesses.

I will do the henchmen next.

---------- Post added at 09:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:29 AM ----------

Sam Hopkins:The shooting henchman. He has great long range attacks(even better if someone is on fire) and with his witch hunt upgrade, can target anyone he can see once per round (2 actions) with no penalties even if in cover, for 4 burning + 1+his normal damage range, whose bottom happens to already be exceedingly wicked. He is unimpeded, so difficult terrain does not get in his way. His ranged attack has a trigger to hit somebody else for extra damage as well. His melee attack is even better, with a damage range slightly less, but a built in critical strike, and +2 damage if the target is on fire. He has rapid fire, so if he has a clear shot, most enemies are going down. His control ability is also good, giving a to Df in 8.

Useful Upgrades:

• Witch hunt is going to be an always consider. It has great range(12), and can target without cover penalties.
  
• If you know or suspect that you are going to face a crew that uses a lot of Ca actions, bring disrupt magic. It is super annoying to be unable to accomplish anything because of the , and a couple of models can tie up most of the board. Otherwise, don't bother.
  
• Lead lined coat is a bit expensive, but if you think Sam is going to end up in melee, it can definitely be a lifesaver. It adds a survivability to Sam that is not to be ignored.
  

Weaknesses:His movement, even with unimpeded, is slooow. he also has Df 5, so he gets hit enough to make the 8 wd seem a bit low. While his melee and flaming bullets abilities are good, he will rarely ever use them because he really doesn't want or have the ability to get into melee.

Default Playstyle: Blast them from behind. Regardless of what crew you bring, 90% of the time your style with Sam is going to be to hang back and shoot, because he just does it so well.

Judge:He survives. Hard to kill, hard to wound, and 10 Wd make him easy to keep alive, even with a Df of 5, which is about average. He has lots of triggers to give him extra attacks, giving him up to 4 attacks per round by himself, with a decent damage spread. His tactical actions are both awesome, giving you free movement, pulling in your enemy, and making life difficult for the opponent as well as dealing a bit of damage.

Useful Upgrades:

• Plant evidence is going to work really well with the crews he comes with, giving him a bit more of a control aspect.
  
• Unrelenting leader is always going to be something you want to consider, giving Judge a bit more survivability and letting him make attacks with other melee models up to 10 inches away.
  
• Flames of the Pit, on the other hand, is mostly going to come into play if your opponent declares resser. If they do, it's an always take. If not, it probably isn't worth the cost, as most non-resser crews don't have undead, and Ressers are also the faction most likely to bring many models with terrifying. Without the ability to know what your opponent is going to bring, spending the SS for an immunity you likely won't use against more than one model is probably too much.
  

Weaknesses:for a model that generally likes to get into the thick of things, he doesn't have a lot of wounds or very high Df. His Sh is only average, and his Ml only slightly above, so the models you most want him to either tie down or kill are likely to be the models he has a hard time hitting consistently. None of his spells have a Ca higher than 5, meaning that anyone with Wp 5 or higher has an even chance of resisting. All of his upgrades are very conditional.

Default Playstyle: Tarpit and Gaurd. He keeps the enemy busy and helps Lady J get into position for her thing, and lets the rest of the crew focus on schemes and strategies. He can get them himself as well, and be a decent damage dealer, but most of his abilities seem built around finding the place to sit most inconvenient to the opponent, and then bogging them down and aiding his crew.

Fransisco Ortega:The duelist. Not only is he one of the better melee models, he grants bonus Df and Wp to models he starts the turn close to. He's a decent shot, and his tactical actions are awesome. Enfretate a Mi gives him a 7" placement effect into combat which also gets other models out of the engagement. Finesse(0) makes him hard to his with Ml actions. If your crew needs a melee presence, you can't do better than him.

Useful Upgrades

• Wade in. If you like Fransisco, take it. seriously, don't question it, just take it. for a single soulstone cost, It gives him healing and Hard to kill, shoring up his Defensive weaknesses nicely.
  
• Diestro: Expensive, but worth it so long as you brought another model with Sh attacks. the and the ability not to count when flipping for target for firing into engagement make this the go to upgrade for any Ortega, but Fransisco benefits from it the most(with the possible exception of 'dita herself), as he by far is the most likely to be right there fighting off the dude you want dead.
  
• Tormento de Plomo and Hermanos de Armas are both good, cheap upgrades if you have another stone left, but neither are going to massively change your game. One gives you an are attack, and the other brings in reinforcements. both are situational, but you will find an excuse to use either in most games.
  

Weaknesses:Average Df, only 8 wounds. He's hard to hit in melee, but if you can shoot him, he goes down pretty quick. However you do manage to damage him, he goes down easily. He is easily isolated, and can be ganged up on pretty easily. He's okay at range, but it not only makes him more vulnerable, it makes him less effective, losing a point of attack and the built in suit for critical strike.

Default Playstyle:Get him into melee and keep him there. He is almost guarunteed to hurt the enemy enough before they take him down that when they do, you will have gotten your use out of him. You can use him as a bodygaurd, and he works well as that, but it's a high cost for +2 Df/Wp.

Note: when I am giving the default playstyle, this is not the only way to play them, and upgrades can open them up even more. I am giving the playstyle that seems to be the most common/easiest to use consistently and do well. Remember, though, that since it is a default, your opponent will be expecting it.

[Mason]

McMourning is also Guild.

Great write up, though.

[Claymore65]

Very nice write-up.

[Brence]

Brilliant write up indeed, speaking of the different masters, what is a nice add to the Lady J. Box set? Any sure bets option wise?

[Rathnard]

For the Lady J box, I'd say an Austringer and Executioner. The former is a fantastic minion with alot of great utility, while the latter gives you another very hard hitting melee model. Witchling Stalkers are also a great choice, not just for their melee potential but because they can remove conditions from your own models with dispel magic. Very handy if someone manages to put paralyse or slow on Lady Justice, for instance.

One trick you can try is to stick the Executioner in a Death Marshall's Pine Box and run him somewhere threatening. Your opponent then has to agonise over ignoring the Death Marshall while he achieves objectives or kill him and have an Executioner right in their face. I've tried it once myself, and it worked pretty well.

[Sonova]

Do you want to be a cowboy? If yes then the Guild is for you.

EDIT: But seriously the guild is far from average. Its just that most of the 'average' models are in wave one. Wait till we get our robots, cyborgs, rider of the Apocalypse, Sikh bodyguard and survivalist madmen back. Oh and lawyers...

Edited October 3, 2013 by Sonova

[zFiend]

For the Lady J box, I'd say an Austringer and Executioner.

[Barbagianni]

I'd bring the austringer in almost every guild list...

[Dracomax]

McMourning is also Guild.

Great write up, though.

D'oh! I keep forgetting. Unfortunately, I haven't played with him or against him enough as a guild master to get a good feel for him, so if someone else could put up a general over view(or PM me, so I could add it to the previous post) that would help. I think that when so many people are likely to be coming to the game, having something like that is a great resource for people to tune what they buy to their own preferences. and I love doing anything I can to grow the game!

Brilliant write up indeed, speaking of the different masters, what is a nice add to the Lady J. Box set? Any sure bets option wise?

Austringer is a definite ad for any guild crew, really. They have super long range attacks, and their tactical ability is worth the model price alone.

Lady J is going to work well with the Lone Martial as well. Terrifying(undead), Good mobility(one of the better movements in the game, possibly the best yet in guild) good attacks, and a relatively cheap cost all make it a good buy for her. just swap out a regular DM and a couple of SS or an upgrade.

Peacekeeper is a good, but expensive unit to bring as well. it brings terrifying(living) a lot of attacks both ranged and melee, and a decent survivability for cost make it worth considering, and it has tarpit/control written all over it's role, with 1) a chain gun that pulls the enemy up to 8" towards it, and a 3 that removes enemy scheme markers(and a 50 mm base). You won't always bring it, but it's worth picking up and building a strategy around.

It couldn't hurt to pick up Perdita's box, as any of the Ortegas can be dropped into her crew and do well. Fransisco is a great alternative to Judge to give your game a more "2 front" feel, with Fransisco and Lady J in the front and the DMs supporting from behind, and Fransisco giving Lady J either a bit more defense, or the ability to get out of a melee she doesn't want to be in depending on how close you put them. The rest of the Ortega's are all really good too.

I am told Executioner is great, but even in M1E, I just never really had room for him in a lady J list, as what he does(kill things dead) is already well covered by my henchmen and master. For the cost, I feel it's better to bring another henchman, or a model that provides more mobility to the crew. But if you want a model that will kill your opponent's models and heal up doing it, or just to get a model with extra AP from discarding enemy scheme markers, the Executioner won't let you down. It's probably a matter of focus. I like to bring toolboxes to games, bacause I like tactical flexibility. If you want to focus on killing or scheme removal, Executioner is a good bet for Lady J. He has terrifying(living) stops Df triggers, and heals both as an action and as a consequence of killing.

Guild Gaurd is a good, low cost model to add, giving you a model that gets better the more of them you bring, for 4 SS. they aren't great, but it certainly couldn't hurt to pick some up for when you need to use that last few stones.

Governor's proxy, Student of Conflict(outcast, mercenary) and Malifaux child(outcast, mercenary) are all better totem options than her Scales of Justice.

Governor's Proxy brings healing and debuffs for 3 SS.

Student of Conflict brings fast to a model, as well as being decent (but not great) in melee for a 5 SS model.

Malifaux child, perennial loser in M1E, costs 3 with the merc tax, has manipulative, healing, and can use Lady J's Ca at -3 Ca with a to cast—unfortunately, this won't give you a scecond restore natural order, simply because he would need a 15 to make it go off, but it does give you the ability to pulse damage undead and spirits, so if they declare resser, it's another excuse to bring the upgrade.

[zFiend]

Thank you Dracomax for those posts. Really helpful, I hope you are involved in 2.0 Pullmyfinger

[Dracomax]

Well, it helps that I play-tested primarily Sonnia, Lady J, and Ramos in the beta, dabbling with Leveticus. My opponents were all three guild, Lillith, and Von Schill, with gremlins thrown in. Between that and lulls in workflow allowing me to be on the board more often than is healthy, I got a pretty good idea of what the guild can do.

Looking forward to seeing Hoffman and Lucius next week.

---------- Post added at 07:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:36 AM ----------

I will say that I find that I am better at general tactics and reaction thinking than at individual maneuvers. If I try to do something like the pine box taxi, I usually fail, because I focus too much on getting the maneuver off and not enough on actually playing the game.

My general advice would probably be to plan for 2 basic ways to accomplish your goals, and build a crew that can do either equally well. Try not to build a crew around a single model. Then, constantly revise based upon which plan will work better at any given time. Always look towards your goals before anything else, with survival and killing being second to getting and keeping points.

[Odin1981]

Perdita has the best out of activation movements in the current game. Her using obey and her start of activation ability, her totem using shackled/ or obey.

She is still a all rounder. She can do a little bit of everything. Her crews will have cheap models but say you are playing at 50ss limit will more than likely have 4-5 minions/henchmen that add up to around 35 ss or so.

She makes Samuel a dream crusher. With the movement tricks of hers plus a obey for witch hunt on x target followed by a companion activation of him to rapid fire their is very little that will survive him. She makes him very strong because she shores up his weakness of low mobility.

Ortega's as a whole are more a combo crew. You take whatever ortega's you like and keep two models (one ortega, one other or sometimes two ortega's) close together to companion off each other and focus fire down stuff. The cheap non ortega models you bring (stalkers or dogs or whatever) our mainly the stuff that will do the scheme stuff while your kill teams clear room for them or threaten "dead zones" that if a enemy puts a model in x" those models kill them.

[EnternalVoid]

She makes Samuel a dream crusher. With the movement tricks of hers plus a obey for witch hunt on x target followed by a companion activation of him to rapid fire their is very little that will survive him. She makes him very strong because she shores up his weakness of low mobility.

Not sure how companion is helping you here with Hopkins. Companion lets the model that has the ability go after another friendly model within 6" finishes. So in this case Hopkins would have to have companion to go right after Perdita, or for Perdita to have the ability Accomplish. It is still dangerous, but it gives them a turn to react before you can activate Hopkins and Rapid Fire.

[Odin1981]

You make sure samuel is within 6" of her when you finish her activation.

[Adran]

You make sure samuel is within 6" of her when you finish her activation.

She has companion which lets her go after another model, not accomplise, which would let another model go after her.

[Dracomax]

Yeah, companion changed a lot between editions.

I don't see after a quick look at cards/upgrades any way to give companion to Sam or accomplice to 'dita, but that doesn't mean it's a bad tactic.

Consider, for a moment, if you have Sam near the center of the board, in cover. he can target the better part of the board from there. If he'd have a clear shot, obey him to use his gun, for better chance to hit, and the same damage on average. If he'd have to take cover modifiers, or if you just want to set up the kill, use witch hunt. it's a bit more likely to fail, but it's 4 damage that is likely to panic your opponent, even if they move out of range of your gun(which is going to require them to give up an objective with that model for the turn, really) and it sets up extra damage for the rapid fire afterwards. the fact they get another action in between just means you might take out a different model.

I like Sam. I don't think witch hunt is an auto take upgrade for him(I do, as mentioned before, always at least consider lead lined coat for him, though) but it isn't a bad choice.

Also, if you are bringing Sam or Sonnia, consider picking up a friekorps specialist. they dish out a lot of fire damage at good range, without cover modifiers at all. (their ranged attack is 2/3:blast/4:blast:blast ignores cover, autotriggers burning if you took any damage at all, with an additional point of burning per :rams in the attack total, and 2 other triggers that do nice control things—making it a schemer, an assassin, and a support attack in the parlance of the article in chronicles). He's expensive(7 stones more than just taking witch hunt, last I checked) but worth buying and worth fielding a good chunk of the time.

Honestly, with a crew base of 'Dita, Sam, and the specialist, (18 SS, not counting upgrades) it would be better to obey the specialist(smaller range on fire starting, but more targets hit, and better chance to hit.) with Sam moved a bit forward, so that the enemy has less opportunity to move out of range, and Sam can go on the next activation to make the enemy weep.