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M2E still Nightmare "The Hanged"


Tiaden

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I am guessing that the absence of an M2E nightmare card allows for tourney organizers to deny their entry if placed on bases in excess of 30mm...which is what should happen.

It is mean to give an advantage to the more expensive version of a model.

As far as I am concerned...the trees are really expensive terrain or should be crammed onto 30mm bases if used as The Hanged.

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Charge an extra ss for the "upgrade" of the increased base size? This was suggested for them in 1.5, but people were of the opinion that the increased size was of little to no import, despite it increasing their area of influence.

As only the Arsenal Pack stat cards with recycled art are even representative of the actual models from 1.5 (the rest being 2.0 art meant to match 2.0 editions of models), most cards are not going to be accurate depictions, anyways.

Moving a 40mm ice golem onto a 50mm base is far easier than trying to fit a Nightmare Edition Hanged onto a 30mm base.

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The terms enhancement, upsize, and "fat bottomed hanged" do not exist within Malifaux. You suggested that the solution might be done via upgrade, which is a term in use, but such an upgrade would have to be paid for and attached to a different model because, as I mentioned, the hanged are not enforcers and thus cannot have upgrades.

I personally feel the better solution would be to at some point create an entirely new model like a killer tree, and allow the hanging trees to be utilized as such rather than trying to make them an alternate hanged.

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So, Waldgeists?

---------- Post added at 04:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:54 PM ----------

You're battling semantics. I put "upgrade" in quotes so as to not use the actual term Upgrade. You point out that they're not even Enforcers. Then I suggest other terms, which you balk at for them not being terms, yet.

Having a larger base size was not seen as an issue, whatsoever, in the previous edition, and, it stands to reason that it won't have any additional impact in the new edition.

Wyrd made these Nightmare Edition models for their players to use, not for them to just be terrain. Otherwise, why stat them up as the Hanged in the first place? Why be so adamantly opposed to players wanting to use their models as the models they are meant to represent?

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Damn, didn't we beat this horse to death already?

Several times if I remember correctly,...

Want to use 50mm hanged?

Play Malifaux ver. 1.5.

---------- Post added at 05:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:22 PM ----------

Has anyone at this point attempted to alter the model (the base of the tree the hanged hang on) so it fits a bit better on a small base? For that matter has there been any talk of possible conversions to make the sculpts more "small base friendly"?

I do not have the hanging tree miniature. Yet looking at pictures I imagine it would be very easy to remove Eric and Nathan from the original model and have them hanging from an alternate object, mounted on a 30mm base.

Ideas that I have had are a lamp post, gallows, another tree,....

Alternatively they could be mounted directly to a 30mm base like the metal Hanged and model an animated rope, again like the metal models.

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It might be possible for someone with better sculpting skills than myself to modify the hanging tree in a way that it fits a 30mm base. But first well I for myself wouldn't claim such skills and second the hanging tree itself is just an awesome model. Not only Nathan or Eric that is hanging from but the whole model itself.

I didn't played Resser in 1.5 but I'm looking forward to do so in M2E and the Nightmare Hanged really doesn't fit on a 30mm base I made a pic to illustrate that.

Well playing only in the local gaming community you talk with your friends and even if they see a really big issue with the 50mm base then you could always compensate that with subtracting something from the range etc.

On tournaments I do see more of an issue. Of course you can always ask the tournament organiser before the tournament if it is OK. If he agrees then everything is fine, but in case he doesn't allow the Hanged on 50mm base then you would need to buy the regular Hanged version in order to take part on the tournament. I can't imagine that in the competitive environment you could also take a quite unprecise solution.

So to verify the Nightmare Hanged in M2E we would definitly need an official answer on that topic. I know that we can't get it in the rules section anymore. Therefore I asked if anyone knows something about an official statement about that topic, but aparantly this statement has not been made yet.

All I can do is to thank you all for your replies and I hope for the FAQ/errata/clarification on the 1st of November.

Edited by Tiaden
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Damn, didn't we beat this horse to death already?

Several times if I remember correctly,...

Want to use 50mm hanged?

Play Malifaux ver. 1.5.

Thats a very helpful comment.

I like M2E and I spent a significant ammount of money just over 1 year ago, I dont think its too much for me (and plenty of others) to expect to see M2E rules for my expensive models thank you very much.

---------- Post added at 05:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:22 PM ----------

I do not have the hanging tree miniature. Yet looking at pictures I imagine it would be very easy to remove Eric and Nathan from the original model and have them hanging from an alternate object, mounted on a 30mm base.

Ideas that I have had are a lamp post, gallows, another tree,....

Alternatively they could be mounted directly to a 30mm base like the metal Hanged and model an animated rope, again like the metal models.

OK advise for anyone who hasn't yet painted up ther miniatures.

But again I dont think I'd want to spend a shed load of money on a model which I'm going to discard most of the model to get it to fit on a base.

---------- Post added at 01:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:07 PM ----------

Hanged did not have an aura last edition?

Not specificaly Auras, but they did have a few area specific abilities.

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The nightmare editions should never have been statistically different the regular versions. While you do have a good point that you should be able to use models you have purchased, others have as much right to not have to expect any additional advantage being used against them, just because someone spent extra money for a "Special" figure no one else has access to anymore.

The only good solutions to this would have been to increase the base hanged's base size to 50mm, which didn't happen, or hope that they create a new model in the future that the Hanging Trees can serve as.

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Is the 50mm base really that much of an advantage though? Has anyone actually played 50mm hanged and seen first-hand how much of an advantage it is/isn't? Or is everyone just talking theory here?

In any case, my own plan is to use my hanged in-game, but have 30mm bases handy to represent where they actually are for the purposes of range, movement etc. That way I can get some table time for my pretty Nightmare Hanged, but in a way that my opponent would feel comfortable playing against.

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I can understand both sides and I do think that Fetid Strumpets argument is valid. In fact thats the reason why I fear that the models might get rejected by some tournament organisers and that's the reason why I started this thread. In 1.5 it wasn't an issue, for M2E the official statement just seems to be missing or I overlooked it.

Is the 50mm base really that much of an advantage though? Has anyone actually played 50mm hanged and seen first-hand how much of an advantage it is/isn't or is this all theory? ...

I don't think it matters much if it really is an issue. I just think people might feel it is an issue and therefore feel that it's no fair treatment. Regardless of how strong the difference between base sizes really is or if it really did made a difference during a game. And I don't want to devaluate that impression. This impression is something that might ruin the fun of a game for the one party that feels a disadvantage or the other party that can't use it's models. And I think we all agree that this is the thing we want to avoid.

... my own plan is to use my hanged in-game, but have 30mm bases handy to represent where they actually are for the purposes of range, movement etc. ...

This is a good proposal and I think it works pretty well in friendly games. In a competitive environment where the issue is already down to less than 20 or 10 mm (and in every other case it doesn't matter) it might get quite complicated to exchange those bases.

For myself I still hope for the November update. Maybe the Hanged get a base size of 30 or 50mm. It wouldn't be the only base size adjustment (see: link) and the issue would be settled.

Right now Rules-As-Written as long as noone comes up with an official statement you can't use the Nightmare Edition Hanged as long as you don't rebase them or get the approval of the TO or opposed player. Nearly the same situation as with the "Obliteration Symbiote" Upgrade of Tara.

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Here's the beef of it. The nightmare hanged should never have been on 50mm bases. How they meaning wyrd though having 2 different bases for the same model was a good idea pains me.

However if u want to play the night made hanged that's fine but they should be on 30mm bas s just Like u can use a puppet wars rider however it needs to be on the correct 50mm base size.

Guess what the ice golem is now a 50mm base sometimes you have 2 rebase stuff.

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Throw em on the list of miniatures that didn't make the cross over.

minion masaki

minion hamelin

-true you can use them as masters provided you want to start a new crew

40mm ice golem

50mm hanged

2nd vulture

i'm sure there are and will be more by the time everything is reworked

Taking a closer look at the list and seeing if you can do anything with the models.

Minion Misaki - Use as Master and imho could also be a fairly good proxy depending on what crews you have.

Minion Hamelin - With no real proxy option the only thing you can do is re-base and use has master Hamelin.

Ice Golem - Rebase

Hanged - No proxy ideas and rebasing impractical - No options.

Vulture - Proxy for another Totem (Mcmourning new Zombie vulture maybe?) or alternatively you could add on the model to a larger model has additional base/model decoration.

There was some speculation (cant remember were though) that Avatar Candy was also on the chopping board, but im sure she could fit into a proxy role fairly easy.

Personally im gutted because out of the list above I have the Hanged and Hamelin.

Hanged I can't do anything with other than play casual if my opponent doesn't object.

Hamelin I scratch built/sculted his base and I have no intention of runing a Hamlin crew

:(

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.

Personally im gutted because out of the list above I have the Hanged and Hamelin.

Hanged I can't do anything with other than play casual if my opponent doesn't object.

Hamelin I scratch built/sculted his base and I have no intention of runing a Hamlin crew

:(

I am in exactly the same boat (although I havnt built hamelin yet) and an a bit narked that I cant use my hanged (especially as I dont own a regular sculpt)

Sure, I would be able to use it in friendly club games as I'm pretty sure it wont actually make that much difference in game terms, but I can completely understand how it may be questioned in tournaments.

and no, you cant re base it, its completely impossible without somehow building a greenstuff column for it to stand on!

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Thinking about it I do play Rezzers and own/use regular hanged. Yet I have never played with or against nightmare versions. So my position is purely ideological. I feel that limited edition miniatures should never have different stats then a regularly available miniature.

Personally I wouldn't care if they said all hanged were now 50mm bases. I have 2 [1 based for Seamus and 1 based for Kirai] and for better or worse I wouldn't mind re-basing them to allow the nightmare models to exist without controversy. With the change to plastics wecould see the roll out of 50mm hanged with some scenic dressings.

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Throw em on the list of miniatures that didn't make the cross over.

minion masaki

minion hamelin

-true you can use them as masters provided you want to start a new crew

40mm ice golem

50mm hanged

2nd vulture

i'm sure there are and will be more by the time everything is reworked

you forgot poltergeist went from a 30 to a 50.

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Misaki can actually be fielded without any other ten thunders pieces, and most players have at least a few outcasts, so I don't consider that much of a blow, at least not any more than the old Henchmen becoming Masters so they're no longer able to be fielded with Masters.

The Ice Golem is one I actually have, and just made a spiffy base for it. It was annoying, but not something I'd put up a fuss over. I expect the Poltergeist would be about the same: annoying but also an opportunity.

The Vulture is kind of a pain- I don't like that you can't field as many, but it wouldn't be the first time I've seen that (reduced quantities) in a new edition.

Hamelin needs a base reduction and (unless something radically changes) a highly specific crew, and the Hanged need a base reduction. That basically makes his other form useless.

Same with the Hanged, since you don't even have the option of trying to squish the tree on to a smaller base like you might(?) be able to try with Hamelin & Nix. I mean, I'm honestly considering making a really tall and weird base for the Hanged I have, but it'll probably be top-heavy, will certainly be unwieldy, and won't be something that reflects well on Wyrd in my opinion. Also, I'm only doing that because I've got the experience to try with a LE mini that I also haven't put on a base yet.

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